ポッドサイエンティストの紹介と科学論文の伝え方
Hey Asami. How's it going? It's going pretty good.I think the room is a little busier today.
It's been a while since we spoke in person aswell. We've been traveling and...
That's true. That's true. There's been a lot oftravels. There'll probably be something that I'll
maybe I'll talk about it or something at somepoint in the future episode for
for traveling and stuff. We got plenty to sharebut yeah. Well, so while you were gone, I was
invited to... I don't know if I can sayinvitation. It was just like...
I collaborated with ポッドサイエンティスト podcast by Satoshi-san and also Aoi-san and
Na-chan-san who sort of support him as a co-hostfor some of the more interactive episodes.
We've talked about this podcast when ポッドサイエンティスト-san did the 化学系ポッドキャスト
host and we decided to talk about effect and wewere just thinking like what did we actually
talk about? I can't remember and cannot bebothered to look back at our episode either.
Oh well, but we talked about it and it was kind ofexciting to do this episode because I have
listened to ポッドサイエンティスト for quite a long time.It's probably one of the first
podcasts, like Japanese podcast that I startedlistening to in pandemic actually.
Oh wow, okay.
Yeah, because I was really missing Japanese atthat time and I had finished all of the books
that I've brought. I was gonna say, I remember youreading all of those books to try and get
that feeling back. I was like rereading. So yeah,and I found that there's a cool guy doing science
podcast and so that's how I found the podcast. Itwas kind of like a full circle moment when
I got to be on their episode which will be comingout. When will it be coming out? I'm not sure,
but sometime soon, probably before this episodecomes out. So we invited back Sato-san and Aoi-san
for our episode today. Hi Sato-san, hi Aoi-san.
Hello.
Hello.
So little did many of the listeners of ポッドサイエンティストknow, they are both also
quite comfortable with English. They both livedabroad and I was like, well, perfect time to
hear their experience and their stories as wellbecause that's part of our podcast, right? It's
not just us, Len and I, blabbing about Babel orother books.
It was only like six episodes.
It was only a six episode, you know, each 30minutes long or something.
But we want to invite other people whooccasionally do and hear their stories as well.
So today is Sato-san and Aoi-san from ポッドサイエンティストand yeah, could you Sato-san
maybe explain, introduce yourself and share abouthow you started your podcast briefly, why not?
Sure. Okay. I am Satoshi and I am an associateprofessor in a university in Japan and I,
with Aoi-san and another person, we do podcastsjust like Asami introduced.
The title of the podcast is ポッドサイエンティスト.
Well, by the way, I don't really like this name.I've been meaning to change this for a long time.
Yeah. But what do you think? Do you like the titleof this show?
I think it works. It's kind of catchy.
Oh, is it?
What don't you like about it?
Yeah.
It's just not good.
This is the episode now, by the way.
Well, the thing is, I think there's a lot ofscience like 科学系ポッドキャストの人たち
who would have loved to pick the word ポッドサイエンティスト,right?
But you've already taken it. You were one of thefirst people to do it.
Ah, trademark.
If you drop it, I'm sure there are a lot of peoplewho would want it.
So by that argument, you should keep it.
Sounds like you like it, right? Yeah, that's cool.
Yeah, it's a very clear, it's a podcast aboutscience.
And that comes across very clearly.
I understand that. That was the whole point ofchoosing this name.
But it's not really good enough for me. It's justnot deep, I think.
Yeah, I've been meaning to change it.
But when I consulted Aoi-san and Na-chan, who isthe other person in the show,
they just didn't like the idea.
I had to keep this name.
Aoi-san, what were the other alternatives thatSato-san shared?
I don't really remember, but I was just saying thesame thing to him.
Like, he asked me to, like, come up with ideas tochange his, like,
pod scientist title at least three times.
So yeah, I told him to keep this one.
Because like, yeah, I love it too.
Yeah, what I wanted to say is whenever I say Iintroduce our podcast,
I just feel a little uncomfortable doing this.
Because I don't like the name.
Well, okay, it is pod scientist for now.
Yeah, for now, yes.
And it sounds great.
In this show, we introduce papers, scientificpapers, in a way that is not
meant to be only for the people in the field, butalso for the general audience.
Yes, that's the introduction.
Yeah, okay, okay.
Thank you.
I really like the way you share these journalarticles, because many of them are quite,
like, it requires a nuanced communication.
It's a lot more, it's less straightforward than,like,
oh, they, like, did this thing to mouse, and wefound cool science.
Like, it's way more complicated and nuanced thanthat, usually.
And he goes into depth, describing, like, themethodology, and why it's innovative,
or, you know, if this is a standard procedure, ifit is, like, why it's so reliable,
and things like that, that, you know, I think, asa scientist, but non-expert in biology,
I find it really easy to follow.
And kind of, like, makes, like, I know that I'mgetting this information from an expert
and a trustworthy source, instead of, like, peoplewho just highlight, like, the cool stuff,
which happens a lot, I think, in scientificcommunication space,
because that's what catches the algorithm, Iguess.
But that's, yeah, that's just me fangirling forthis podcast.
But, yeah.
Yeah, thank you for saying that.
Yeah, I appreciate it.
Yeah, we can probably talk more about, sort of,your intentions on how you're selecting
your topic, or how, what sort of things you careabout when you're communicating it
and make it into a podcast.
アオイのメルボルン留学とバレエ医療
But before that, I want to go move on to Aoi-sanas well.
So, Aoi-san, you've already spoken, but can youintroduce yourself,
and how you got involved in PodScientist?
Sure.
Hi, everyone.
I'm Aoi, A-Y.
I'm currently working at a company that develops amedical device.
But before that, I was studying neuroscience inAustralia.
I graduated last year.
And yeah, here I am.
Working together with Satoshi-san, I show up insome, a few episodes in PodScientist.
Yeah, it's just, this is going to be a little bitoff topic,
but I got my dental braces on yesterday.
And I've taken, like, painkillers, but it's nothelping.
So, yeah, it's giving me a little bit of pain.
Oh, no.
So, yeah, my pronunciation is not my best.
Like, if you find it a little weird, just, I'mjust gonna say,
it's because of my dental braces.
I'm just gonna bring on my braces.
Perfect.
Yeah.
Don't, don't comment having me.
And you sound, you sound great.
You sound great.
Right, thank you.
And I, well, thank you so much for making the timethe day after your dental braces.
Yeah, yeah.
That's not something people just casually, they'relike,
oh, I had some dental work, and now I'm going tospeak on a microphone for however long.
Yeah.
Oh, my God.
Thank you.
Please also rest afterwards.
Yeah, thank you.
Yeah.
Oh, man.
But so, Aoi, I know that you have, you were bornand raised in Japan.
And am I right, right?
And that your only sort of living abroadexperience is three years in Australia,
which is crazy, given how sort of natural andfluent you sound in English.
Oh, thank you.
Like, you know, you sound the same, pretty much, Ithink, in Japanese and in English.
Like, how, how come?
How did this happen to you?
I have to say, my elementary school offered the IBeducation, international baccalaureate.
So the education, the program itself was like, itcomes from Switzerland, Europe?
I don't remember.
But yeah, it's like, yeah, you did the same,right?
Yeah, I did the same.
I only did the high school part of IB.
I was, I was only in an international schoolsystem since middle school.
But so you said, you started in elementary school?
Yeah.
This, wow.
Okay, so you were living in Japan, but you were ininternational school.
And was that your choice?
Or was there like, parents choice?
I was actually not in international school.
It was a public school.
So it's, yeah, basically, Japanese taught school.
But I did a few of my subjects in English.
So like, for example, I did my mathematics,English, and physics in English.
And I had the opportunity to take that, take artsclass, music class,
and a little bit like scientific experimentalspecial classes in English,
when I was in year eight or something.
So that was my first exposure for me to like learnin English
and actually engaging in like stuff in English.
Yeah.
Okay, wow.
So you already were pretty fluent, comfortable inEnglish by the time you got to Australia,
I'm guessing?
I don't think so.
Yeah, I was pretty confident that I cancommunicate in English
as much as I want to do in Japanese as well.
So, okay.
Yeah, but I was not fully fluent in English when Ifirst landed in Australia.
Because yeah, that was my first time I'mexperiencing studying abroad.
So, yeah.
And also, the accent was very different from whatI did in Japan.
So, yeah.
Oi, mate.
It's so much.
Yep.
That's so funny.
But wow, I have so many questions.
Where do I even start?
But maybe why did you choose Australia as likeyour destination for studying abroad?
Yeah, that's a good question.
I wanted to become like a healthcare professional,
like a therapist for ballet dancers back then.
No way.
Australia, particularly.
Yeah.
And particularly in Melbourne, there's the biggestballet company in Australia.
And they have a pretty good and famous medicalteam.
So they have PTs that also do research.
And their research around the body of balletdancers
came out to be really effective in preventinginjuries.
So I wanted to do some work with them.
So I went to Australia and my first major was inanatomy and physiology.
But I changed it to neuroscience because I wantedto like do some research.
I got interested in research in later stage.
So yeah, I graduated with my degree inneuroscience.
But I originally wanted to do something aroundballet dancers, like medical field thingy.
Wow.
I don't know if I've told this to you last time wespoke for your pot scientist collaborations.
I am a hobby, very passionate, but a hobby balletdancer.
And I've been doing this since I'm like seven orsomething.
I'm still dancing, taking classes.
And yeah, so this is like a little bit more thanjust my hobby.
I feel like it's just kind of...
Yeah, hobby is not the right word.
It's part of your life.
Yeah.
I mean, I chose to not go to professional route bylike, I don't know, 14 or something.
It's just like, you know, like I could tell evenas a 14 year old,
like I'm not going to make it as a professional.
Or even if I do, it'll be a tough life.
So I have decided to just like keep this as like athing I do.
But yeah, so that's amazing.
Fascinating that you wanted to study abroad toAustralia for ballet specific reason.
And for Len and Sato-san, like, you know, you guysmight not know,
but Australia and Australian Ballet, theirnational company
is one of the, I would say, best medical teamsupport in the world.
I would say.
Okay.
Ballet companies famously do not care about balletdancers' body all that much.
That's a new concept.
They just expect dancers to be in like the tip-topform at all times, ready to fire.
But I think Australian companies, I want to say inlike maybe 20 years ago,
so when nobody had, you know, company PT, otherthan like a super elite companies, maybe
they had hired like in-house physical therapistand these medical team
that dancers can access at all times.
They can just like, you know, after doing therehearsal,
they can go visit the PT and get the massage orget the conditioning and stuff like that.
And only recently it has sort of become normal inmany major companies to do this.
But I would say Australia, Australian Ballet waslike one of the first to sort of start that trend.
Wow.
Wow.
I did not know that.
I have now learned something today.
Thank you, both of you.
It's like, it's also a very positive thing.
Okay.
It's good.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So that's why you wanted to go to Australia.
And I also know personally a couple of otherpeople who went that route specifically for that,
you know, Australian healthcare system to workwith ballet dancers and to with like rugby teamsas well.
So I guess like sports science is like big inAustralia.
Yeah, true.
That's so cool.
メルボルンのコーヒー文化とフラットホワイト
And whereabouts in Australia were you?
I'm in Melbourne.
Yeah, the coffee city.
How did you like it?
Everything.
I didn't know it was called the coffee city.
Oh, I love the river there.
It was pretty safe environment for me because thatwas my first time going out.
I'm going to a block just by myself.
And my mom was like worried that I'll be alone.
Like, you know, I was 18 then.
So 18 year old girl like started living abroadwithout any previous experience of living abroad,
even in Japan.
But yeah, it was a really friendly and nice cityto live in.
I, you know, it's a city, the city is famous forcoffee.
So I didn't drink coffee before then.
But I knew how delicious it is, like how deliciouscoffee is in Melbourne.
So I learned to drink coffee like an adult.
Yeah, I have so many memories then.
Yeah.
You're converted now.
Sorry.
I'm laughing because I don't drink coffee, whichmeans that I'm not an adult.
I love coffee.
I like to procure coffee at least like twice aday, if not three times a day.
Len does not.
And he also does not like chocolate, which is likea failure as a human.
Just outing me for all the things that I don'tlike again.
Okay, good.
Yeah, but Aoi, you're a tea person, actually,right?
Yeah, that's true.
I'm a tea person.
But when I'm in Melbourne, I just love, like, youknow, like, you can get what I mean,
when you go to Melbourne, because like, there'salso like peer pleasure in Melbourne.
Like you go to a cafe in Melbourne and you get thetea, like, what are you doing?
There's so many options, coffee options in themenu and they're,
everyone is like holding a cup of like flat whitein his hand.
But yeah, you can't go for tea.
But the tea is like in the back of the cupboardwhere the cobwebs are.
Yeah, tea is for little kids.
I am the littlest.
I am the smallest.
Oh, gosh.
Well, what's your coffee order, Aoi?
I love flat white.
Flat white.
Yes.
Nice.
Okay, I don't think I don't think I can claim thatI have had the real flat white
because I don't think I've had flat white inAustralia.
But here in Hong Kong, there are quite a bit ofAussie populations.
And many of them are in F&B industry.
So I have, I have had flat white here around.
Yeah, it's really different depending on who makesit is what I'm realizing.
Yeah, and so many milk choices.
And if you go, if you have Mac cafe, Mac cafe,like the cafe that McDonald's run,
they have a pretty good, yeah, why?
Because the Mac cafe was like established inMelbourne.
So there's like a first ever Mac cafe inMelbourne.
So the McDonald's is an American thing, but Maccafe is an Aussie thing.
Oh, okay.
I have not tried that.
I think I used to go to Mac cafes a lot inSingapore.
It was really close to my school and was a lotcheaper and had more food option than
Starbucks did back then.
So that was our, you know, go to hangout spotafter school.
But I didn't know that it was Australian thing.
Yeah.
So I think it's a good place to try flat white forthe first time.
They offer a cheap one.
When you go to Melbourne, they cost at least $6per cup.
I don't know if it's like expensive in Japan ornot.
But yeah, but surely the quality is good.
Okay.
Yeah.
Wow.
Well, so because of that, and also because I don'tlove milk all that much,
I usually go for just black coffee or Americanosor espresso.
And yeah, sometimes I have to think to myselflike, because once in a while,
I feel like having a nice latte or something.
And it's like, was it really worth an $8, youknow,
just like diluted espresso by milk, you know,drink?
And the answer is no, it's never worth it.
But it is the price we pay to live in a cool city.
Yeah.
And sometimes it's just for the vibe.
It's just for setting your mind to like live a daywith a great motivation.
Yeah.
That I can understand, even as a little child.
What I'm hearing is that we need to send Len toMelbourne for a field trip.
So are you going to send me to Melbourne?
Who's funding me?
Can I get a...
I don't know, somebody can send you, not me.
Not you.
All right, all right.
Yeah, just like apply for a conference orsomething in Melbourne and go.
Yeah, no, that's fair.
And drink the coffee, drink the damn coffee.
So that we can hang out when we are in Tokyo inplaces that don't serve non-coffee drink.
Like a Mac cafe?
No, it probably serves non-coffee.
All right, yeah, that'll be an entire trip toMelbourne just to hang out in coffee only
location.
Just to convert you into a coffee person.
It will make your life better.
That is apparently what people do.
I have a whole, I'm not gonna be able to sharethis here, but I have a whole song that an
artist made, which is about this exact thing.
Coffee people trying to get non-coffee people tobecome coffee people.
This is very much a thing.
The result is probably I still won't like it.
I think, I think that just like one step closer tothe world peace.
So, you know, it's a small price to pay to becomea coffee person.
I don't know.
Yeah.
I want to put that on the backlog for discussion.
英語のアクセントとコードスイッチング
Okay, enough about coffee.
But like, I want to know like, you know, what itwas like living in Melbourne.
But also, you know, since this is our podcast istechnically Eigo de Science Tonight.
Also, you know, we're talking about English.
Yeah, that was the whole point, right?
And I want to know, like, how did yourrelationship change?
You're like, your relationship to English as alanguage change while you're living in
Melbourne?
Or maybe did you pick up any other foreignlanguage?
How does your relationship evolve with Japanese?
You have any comments on that?
Yeah, I've tried learning some other languageslike Korean, Chinese, Greek language andeverything.
But still, it hasn't show up on my resume as myEnglish fluency, like skill section.
So still, I think I only speak Japanese andEnglish.
And the funny thing is, I think Asami-sanmentioned this in our pod scientist episode
before.
But when I went to Australia, and I stayed incollege, residential college, so it's like
a dorm for three years.
And I went to a cafeteria to get my lunch one day.
And I said, like, no tomatoes, please.
Wait, it still sounded like a little bit Aussie,but I was more American.
And no tomatoes, please.
And they were like, what?
To what?
And then I went like, I had to describe whattomatoes are.
So like, I said, the red brown vegetable thing,you see over there, the red one.
And they finally went like, oh, tomatoes.
Okay, no tomatoes, that's fine.
So that's the first time I actively tried tochange my accent to sound a little bit more
Aussie.
It was my, I started learning English in Japan.
So it automatically comes that my, the Englishfoundation is an American accent.
But my elementary school, I think most of theteachers had a British accent.
So I had some exposure there.
I learned their spelling and I, my ears got usedto their accent.
And then I went to Australia.
And my college, I like, I spent my 60 or 70% of mydays in my college.
So in my college, 80% or 90% of students werelocal, like from Australia.
So I kind of had to change my accent to a littlebit more Aussie.
So I think you can hear a little bit British orAustralian influence in me.
But still, American English, like strong Americanaccent,
with a hint of British and Australian accent inme.
Yeah.
I think this is such a problem for people whopicked up English in different environments.
Right, right.
I also have this issue where, yeah, like Len isvery familiar with my very confusing accent,
where people are like, you're not from here.
But we don't know where you're from.
And it's definitely not Japan.
Oh, that's always an interesting conversation tohave with someone.
Yeah, yeah.
So I can't really specify my accent.
But I think it's a lovely thing that I get to,like,
pick up a piece of everyone I've ever come acrossin, like, very different places.
So I'm carrying a piece of them with me for therest of my life.
So they have some influence in me.
And maybe I gave some influence on people I'vemet.
So yeah, sometimes I think this way and think,yeah, it's lovely.
That's so sweet.
I never thought about it that way.
Yeah, you did describe yours as confusing.
It's like, yeah, I just thought I have a veryunstable accent.
Like, yeah, if you put me in a conversation withthree other Brits,
I will start to sound a bit more like them.
And when I'm talking with Len, I am more gearedtowards American,
at least in my head, right?
So yeah, you are.
Yeah, I think on podcast, I think I sound moreAmerican.
But like, what do I really sound?
I don't know.
But I can relate.
I'm gonna adopt that idea.
I'm just carrying a piece of everyone I interactwith in my accent.
That's kind of lovely.
Yeah.
It's like a poetic description of code switchingand learning all in one.
Yeah.
相手に合わせた発音の切り替え
And Len, do you have any questions for Aoi beforewe move on to Satoshi?
Sure.
I mean, short one with the sort of accents.
Do you still notice yourself selecting when tosort of,
you know, tune your communication to someone else?
Yes, definitely.
So I'm currently working with people fromAustralia, the US and the UK.
And I always try to say something funny to like,break the ice.
And yeah, I went to the event the other day.
It was like for the UK expansion thingy.
And I've met British people there.
And I tried to change my accent to sound a littlebit more British.
And I also said like, it was like during the FIFAWorld Cup, where it's like,
like, yeah, there.
So I said like, I don't really like the Americanchant.
Like, what was that?
I believe that we will win.
I believe that we will win that thing.
Something like that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Really?
Okay, compared to that, the British one is a bitlame, but sure.
Yeah, very sarcastic.
And I love that.
So I, I talked about it with my like, imaginativeBritish accent.
But yeah, they were successful.
They loved it.
And yeah, the other time I was on a flight toLondon.
It was a British Airways, British Airlines, BA.
And I tried to be, I tried to sound like a Britishperson to get like, a full like,
the great service from them.
And it was going well, until they asked me tooffer, like they offered me a drink.
And I say like, just water's fine.
With a like, full, like thick Australian accent.
Yeah.
So yeah.
Your disguise was working so well.
Right.
Until then, yeah.
It's the most common phrases though, right?
It's the stuff that you just said over and overagain that you're like, no, just, yep,
that's how it came out.
Yeah, exactly.
Oh, thank you for sharing that.
I love that.
There are times, right, to try and make thoseintentional switches.
And I think it sounds like you sort of areconsciously aware of it.
And you maybe enjoy, you know, trying it when youget the chance.
Yeah, that's interesting, right?
Like I, I think when I get pulled towards oneaccent or the other, it's quite subconscious
things like I'm not usually doing this superconsciously, except for when I realized that
there's an issue.
And I'm like, okay, let me put it on to like,better communicate.
But yeah, something similar like that happens.
I feel like my sister won't mind me talking aboutthis.
So she is married to a French guy.
And she puts on a French accent to talk to herhusband in English.
And she swears that it goes through better than ifshe had just spoken normal English
by putting on a French accent.
And I always just find that funny because shesounds nothing like how she speaks to
me in English when she's talking to her husband.
So it is very funny.
From outside being able to observe that I think iswhere, you know, amusement and learning
can be formed.
Like now, now the switch is seamless.
Now, now it's second nature to her.
Yeah.
But I feel like he can understand my English evenif I cannot put on a French accent.
Because that would sound too ridiculous.
Maybe it's just for fun.
Maybe it's just for fun.
Yeah, it could just be for fun.
次回予告：サトシのカナダ留学
But anyway, I think, okay, let's get back to Sato-san in the next episode that we talk
about.
I want to hear his study abroad story.
He went to Canada.
I want to say, was this as a postdoc, Sato-san?
Yeah, yeah, it was a postdoc.
Yeah, he spent quite some time in Toronto.
So I want to hear about that story too.
But I guess, yeah, let's make that into the nextepisode.
And for now, thank you, Aoi-san and Sato-san forcoming.
And we will wrap this podcast up.
Stay tuned for the next episode.
Thank you both.
Thank you.
Thank you for having me.
All right.
Bye.
That's it for the show today, folks.
Thanks for listening.
Find us on Next at Ego de Science.
That's E-I-G-O-D-E-S-C-I-E-N-C-E.
See you next time.
![#48 [大盛況感謝🙌] ホストとして振り返る #科学系ポッドキャストの日](https://image.listen.style/img/zIlrz7Xyhw2Bd9vnsafKUXtBZTo7DxpiHLKukMGhyWk/resize:fill:80:80/aHR0cHM6Ly9kM3Qzb3pmdG1kbWgzaS5jbG91ZGZyb250Lm5ldC9zdGFnaW5nL3BvZGNhc3RfdXBsb2FkZWRfbm9sb2dvLzQxNzY5OTY4LzQxNzY5OTY4LTE3NTM5MDMyMzk3ODQtZTMwZjdlYTM2NjdiZC5qcGc.avif)
