#7 【首里城復建/自己アイデンティティ】Shurijo Castle Restoration and Our Self Identity

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What's up guys, this is IYASASA RADIO by Akane and Minami.

In this radio, we are going to talk about random topics in Okinawan Japanese and English.

はいたい! ぶすよちゅうがなびら。イヤササレディオのアカネとミナミやいびん。うぬレディオでイエイゴとウチナーグチさんにいっぺうむさるはなしつづけやんりちうむとういびん。

So today we are going to talk about Shurijo Castle from article.

ということで今日は首里城の記事を読んでいろいろ We are going to discuss about Okinawan history and our feeling.

KURAYOSHI TAKARA gives lecture on Shurijo Castle restoration effort in Naha, April 18, 2021, Ryukyu Shinpo.

The Pallet Kumoji 30th anniversary lecture series took place at the Pallet Civics Theater in Naha, April 17,

and University of the Ryukyu's emeritus professor and historian KURAYOSHI TAKARA gave a lecture titled

Shurijo Castle, Now and the Past. TAKARA said that restoration of Shurijo Castle is a central

aspect to restricting the culture and activity built by our ancestors, and spoke about his

thoughts on the restoration effort, which he has been passionate about over the past 30 years.

Shurijo Castle's main temple and principal facilities were destroyed in a fire in October

2019, and TAKARA has been serving as a chairman of Japan's Shurijo Castle Restoration Engineering

Investigation Committee. He explained that railroad-era restoration scheduled to have

the main temple rebuilt by 2025 and the state of the discussion surrounding it, saying we have to

somehow resolve the contradiction of enacting the through policy to prevent another fire or disaster

without destroying the traditional wooden architecture. We are in the course of

combining our knowledge while continuing to investigate the issue. While looking back on

the previous restoration of the castle, which was destroyed during the Battle of Okinawa,

he introduced an idea to collect and preserve the cultural and history materials of the Ryukyu

Kingdom that have been scattered both of other areas of Japan and abroad. We haven't historical

records in the building that hasn't been rebuilt. Shurijo Castle is unfinished and there is still

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a lot of work to do. I want the next generation to work at the restoration

with new investigative research and information gathering.

I want the next generation to work at the restoration with new investigative research and information gathering.

I want the next generation to work at the restoration with new investigative research and information

gathering. I want the next generation to work at the restoration with new investigative research

He said.

Looking back at the restoration of the Shuri Castle, which was destroyed in Okinawa,

I would like to introduce that the artifacts of the Ryukyu Kingdom and the materials are scattered

all over the country, overseas, and collected and stored.

There are buildings that have not been restored without the materials.

The Shuri Castle is incomplete and there are many homeworks left.

He said that the next generation should work on restoration through new research and information collection.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

As a review, in the first place, the flow of the Shuri Castle,

this is not the first time it burned out completely.

It's not the first time it's gone out of business, so if you look at the flow,

it was the fifth time that the Shuri Castle was destroyed in October 2019.

Yes, the fifth time it burned down.

The first time was in 1453.

It was written that it was destroyed in a contest of the majority because it did not understand English.

And the second time was in 1660.

At that time, it burned down.

And the third time was in 1709.

The third time it burned down.

The fourth time it was burned out because of the World War II Battle of Okinawa.

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It burned down on the Okinawa Line.

That's why the Shuri Castle was the main branch of the Okinawa Japanese Military.

Yes, that's why.

That's because I knew after the burned down in 2019.

I learned about the history that was a good opportunity.

That's right. There are a lot of things I don't know at all.

I knew it wasn't the original version of the Shuri Castle, but I didn't know it was.

It happened like four times in the past.

How did you feel about the fire in 2019?

I was in Tokyo when it happened.

I've heard of it from one of my friends in Okinawa.

He texted me.

Hey, the Shuri Castle is burning out right now and you should watch TV.

And I was like, what?

And I saw the news and every channel was talking about the Shuri Castle fire.

And I was alone at home.

Maybe it was in the morning or the night.

My first impression was that I was really sad.

Well, I was kind of surprised to myself that I'm being sad and have a grief to this world heritage site.

It's just a building if you know if I take it in a cold way.

And my high school was next to Shuri Castle, like very next to Shuri Castle because it's Shuri high school.

And in my high school days, I went there like so many times, like almost every day or just passing by, you know, hanging out with friends.

Even after I graduate high school, if my friends visit me in Okinawa and I show them around Shuri Castle.

I've been there many times with a lot of people.

Of course, I talk to people in Okinawa about the burning and sad history.

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What I was surprised was some of my co-workers in Tokyo really worried about me and really worried about or being sad about this happening.

And they even asked me how I was doing.

I think that was one of the most surprising things I felt in that time.

Because to me, if some other world heritage site or the castle or temple burning out in other prefectures, I don't think I can relate that much as my co-worker did to me.

So I'm happy, or I'm happy, or I'm thankful that people care about me.

Like, everyone cares about you?

Yeah, yeah.

I don't know if it's because Miyami is cold, but a lot of people talked to me about it and it made me even sadder.

At first, I was sad for about a week, but after that, how do I say this?

I think it was, it opened our eyes what we used to have and now it's gone.

And then people start talking about it.

Yeah, it's like when you break up with your boyfriend or girlfriend, you know how important he was or she was.

Kind of like that, yeah.

It's the first time you realize how important he was.

Yeah.

How about you, Akane?

Akane, so on that day, I was sleeping with my husband in the room and his parents are living next to our apartment.

And his mom came to our room and she was like, oh my god, Shurijo castle is burning down right now.

And we were so surprised and we turned on the TV and all the news broadcasting about Shurijo castle is burning.

Then we were kind of sleepy, but we went outside and we go up to the rooftop of the apartment.

And it's not that close to apartment, but we actually could see the Shurijo castles from our apartment.

And it's burning.

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And then the smoke was covering the sky.

All covered up with gray smoke.

We were so surprised and we were sleeping but we woke up.

I was so sad, like super sad.

Yeah.

I don't know why, but I was so sad.

I don't know why.

And then I was watching the news on TV.

Firefighters were trying to put out the fire, but it's getting worse because it's wood.

It's completely burned down.

I was like, oh my god.

After that, I went to work and I was texting with my friends, Aya and Norman.

I was like, it's burning, but we have to do something.

Then you guys created some project, right?

Yeah.

So I really wanted to do something about Shurijo castle at that time.

And then we were searching about the donation with the t-shirts to the Shurijo castle rebuilding.

But it's all sold out.

The t-shirts were made by you guys?

Yeah.

Somebody already started the project.

Somebody said, if you buy this t-shirt, it will be a donation.

At that time, the only thing I could think of was donation.

Somebody already started the Shurijo castle rebuilding project.

It was burning that day.

But the t-shirts were all sold out.

We didn't have any...

How do you say it?

We didn't have a way.

At that time, there was no donation from the bank.

So I was talking with my friends.

Then my friends agreed with my opinion.

Then we set up the project.

If we don't have the t-shirts, we can make it ourselves.

That was the idea.

I made the t-shirts with my Okinawan friends living in Tokyo.

One of them already had an apparel store.

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One of them already had an apparel store.

It started from the next day.

How long did it take from when you guys started talking about it and actually launched the project?

One day.

That's fast.

But we were discussing about the design.

It took a day.

But we were discussing about the design.

They drew the design in a day or two.

They put it on a T-shirt template.

So you didn't really struggle to spread the information?

Or it was hard for you?

The first few days,

all my friends were buying our T-shirts.

But we stopped for a month or two.

But we still had the stock of the T-shirts.

So Norman asked famous actresses

Maybe, at that time

she lives in America

But this text was really polite

She said, she would love for us to cooperate

She said, she would love for us to collaborate

She shared on her Instagram

about my husband's post

She shares Instags

She posts everywhere

I think it's one of the great examples of using social media in a good way.

Just idea and passion.

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I've been following the news of the Shuri Castle for a long time, and I've been watching it every day.

I did some research on the history of the Shuri Castle.

The Shuri Castle is a building, and it's not supposed to have that much feeling.

But I wanted to protect the culture and history of Okinawa through the T-shirts.

Did you contact an expert of history or architecture to learn about all of it?

No, I did all the research myself.

Oh, I see. What was the most impressive or something you remembered about as a new knowledge?

I've been to a lot of museums in Okinawa, and I've seen a lot of programs like Tempest on the Internet.

It's a castle that links to history.

It's a castle that people in Okinawa try to build no matter how many times they burn it.

It's hard to collect materials, and it's hard to rebuild it over and over again.

But I thought it was meaningful that we're still continuing.

We are so mixed culture, like China, Japan, America, and Japan.

I learned a lot about places other than the Shuri Castle.

That's right.

I learned about Shuri Castle was they using a Ryukyu-

Ryukyu-

Ryukyu-kenchiku is what it's called in Japanese.

In English, it's Ryukyu and Architecture.

I thought it was Ryukyu-zu, but I'll leave that aside.

The Shuri Castle construction feature is mixed by Chinese architecture and also Japanese architecture.

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I didn't know even our castle is mixed by a lot of culture because I thought that was Chinese architecture.

Because I didn't know, I didn't know until I looked it up.

So I thought it was really interesting.

The Shuri Castle is like a symbol of Ryukyu.

So there were a lot of wars, but in the end, it's Ryukyu, so it's not Japan, it's us, it's our ancestors.

That's why I wanted to leave a symbol.

It's probably the first time something like this has happened since we were born, right?

We didn't experience the war.

I didn't think that buildings and symbolic things would have such an impact on my identity until it happened.

I saw a lot of articles and features about how Shuri Castle burning out affected on Okinawan people's identity.

I'm Japanese, but I'm originally from the Ryukyu Kingdom, and I'm Ryukyu, but I'm Okinawan.

I think everyone has a different opinion on how to express their names.

I have something to talk about identity.

I didn't consider myself as Okinawan as much as I do right now until I went to the United States when I was 20.

That's because I was in San Francisco at the time.

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I was in a language school, and we sometimes talked about the topics of the cultural difference among the old countries.

There were a lot of topics like New Year's Day, Obon, and festivals, and people asked me,

How is it like in your real life?

And sometimes I was the only Japanese in that class, which means I need to represent other Japanese, right?

But every time I explained to them in a Japanese way and also in an Okinawan way, because I didn't experience Japanese-Japanese culture personally.

I just experienced it in an Okinawan way, so it's really different.

I know that feeling.

And other students from Europe or South America, they start understanding about who I am.

And I understand more of myself that I am strongly think I am Okinawan.

It was a time when I felt a great difference.

When I was in the United States.

And some other Japanese friend told me,

Okay, I get it, but you're Japanese.

Yeah, of course, you're right. I am Japanese.

But I think it's kind of similar to similar feeling that half people has, maybe.

Well, I don't know. I've never had that kind of experience.

You have both cultures all the time.

I realized that I grew up in a complicated place.

And one day, I was talking to a woman, an American woman.

She was a receptionist or something at some school.

And I got the chance to talk to her where I'm from.

And I said, probably, I am from Okinawa.

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And I started talking about the difference between people in Okinawa and people in mainland.

And I used the term mainland to her.

And she said, Wow, you guys use the word mainland?

We do because I am from Hawaii.

And she was really surprised.

And I was like, yeah.

Because we only have this word, mainland.

Like how to distinguish the place we're from.

And people in Hawaii often use the term mainland or Hawaiian.

But people in mainland, in the United States, don't really know about this word or they barely use mainland.

So I think people in mainland in Japan also use the term mainland.

Like, people in Okinawa use the term nai-cha.

But there are many ways to distinguish between people in mainland and people in Okinawa.

Which one is correct.

It's probably a controversial topic.

But people in Hawaii also use the term islander.

So they have a similar history.

And people in Hawaii are not really surprised about this fact.

I was also getting along with Spanish girls at that time.

And they were from Catalan.

They both speak Spanish and Catalan.

So I don't know if it's a difference in the level of speaking in Okinawa.

I don't know if it's the Okinawan intonation like in Yamanaka.

But they have a similar way of thinking.

And European people don't really care about that.

So I was like, oh, there are places like that in Spain.

I actually went to Barcelona after I graduated my university.

I saw so many Catalan flags in a specific district in Barcelona.

Okinawans don't really do things like this.

They don't really do independence movements.

So I started to think that there are people who have a similar history in places that look like big cities.

Even though we are so far apart, we have something in common.

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We have something we can relate to.

I was like, oh, that's nice.

How can I say? I was like, wow.

I think I get it now.

You have both nationalities.

Akane, when did you start thinking like that?

When I went to New York and when I was in Tokyo.

The first time I got out of Okinawa was 21 or so.

When I went to New York for study.

At the time, New York, there are a lot of nationalities living in the city.

People really don't care about the difference.

Also, when I introduced myself at school.

I talked about Japanese culture, but I really didn't know about Japanese culture.

When it comes to food, people think our main food is tempura, soba, or suki.

We eat those kinds of things, but tempura isn't really a coating.

We really don't eat Japanese soba.

We only eat Okinawan soba.

We eat sushi, but the image of Japanese food

wasn't close to my image of Japanese people.

That was the time I realized I'm not a Japanese person.

I get it.

But people understand that I'm from Okinawa.

Okinawa is a totally different place from Japan.

People understand that I'm from Okinawa, so there was no problem.

Also, in Hawaii, my aunt and my uncle live in Hawaii.

My uncle is American, and my aunt is from Okinawa.

She's my mom's sister.

They always tell me about Hawaii.

They always say Hawaii is pretty close to Okinawa.

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A lot of Okinawan people live in Hawaii.

They are really slow, casual, and island-like.

Also, they have their own language.

It's a warm area.

It's very different from mainland states.

It's similar to mainland America, so it's easy to live there.

That's true.

Then, when I moved to Tokyo from Okinawa after I graduated school,

the language was difficult.

Even now, I can't get rid of the intonation and accent.

In English, I only know standard Japanese.

In Japanese, I grew up with the accent of Okinawa.

There was a language barrier.

There was a natural accent, like shimi or obon.

Everything was different.

So I felt like I didn't even know this.

Yeah, you don't know.

I think it's like, I don't know.

If you don't go outside, you don't know who you are.

I'm really proud of being Okinawan.

The more I know the history, the more I know.

It's not self-love, but you feel like your identity is getting stronger, right?

Yeah.

I used to watch my mom.

My mom is from Okinawa, but she likes American sweets.

I have a lot of friends from Taiwan.

I sometimes feel like I'm from Taiwan.

I read some article that a long time ago,

when we were in Ryukyu era,

I saw that Okinawa was called the Great Ryukyu, and Taiwan was called the Small Ryukyu.

Oh, really?

Yeah.

But do you know that we have similar faces?

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With Taiwanese?

Yeah.

We are Minato-gawa Genjin.

We are.

I think people from Finland have different faces because they are Yayoi people.

They are short and have dark hair.

Well, they are blending their hair now,

but when you go to a museum, the model is completely different.

I thought it was amazing.

I didn't know I have a strong Okinawan face until I moved to Tokyo.

Yeah, you have a strong Okinawan face.

I'm from Chinen.

When I said, of course, I'm from Chinen,

some famous people recognized me as Okinawan.

I saw like one or two people saying to me in a business field,

before I introduced myself with the name, they asked me,

Are you Okinawan?

And I was like, what?

Do you recognize me just by my face?

It was so funny.

But I love being Okinawan.

I'm so happy.

I'm so happy, but that's my face.

After I came to Tokyo,

I was like,

Minami, did you have such an Okinawan face?

When I was in America,

Some people get really confused where I'm from.

I got said from Colombian or Thai or Filipino.

Everything mixed and people never guessed that I'm Japanese.

So I was like, yeah, that's right.

I can relate to more Latin people sometimes.

Because in Hawaii, Brazil, Peru, there are a lot of Okinawans.

I have my relatives in Brazil too.

So I was like, yeah, that's right.

I think so.

Like that.

I started to accept the difference in a good way.

After I came to Tokyo,

I was like, I love Okinawa.

I used to like Okinawa,

but I feel like I'm getting closer to it.

I feel it every year.

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That's good.

Thank you.

That's good.

Because when I was in Okinawa,

I wanted to get out immediately.

Because I was a kid.

I understand.

Before I went to study abroad,

I wanted to go to a different place.

I was strong.

But after I came back,

I was like, Okinawa is good.

It's really good.

And when I came back to Okinawa,

I was like, it's really good.

That's good.

So I live in Okinawa now.

That's why I want to relate Okinawan culture and history

for my business too.

Like that.

I have the skills and knowledge of the people in Okinawa.

So I do a lot of business in Okinawa.

But I want to do something that only Okinawans can do.

Like what I did when I was a kid.

I have an aunt and uncle.

I think it's better to do what you can do.

As an Okinawan.

But it's important for people outside of the prefecture to see the beauty of Okinawa.

But Okinawans,

like people who live in Okinawa

and never get out of Okinawa,

it's hard for them to understand the beauty of Okinawa.

Because they're always there.

It can't be helped,

but I think it's better for people who understand to do it.

Yeah.

Do you understand?

I understand.

Yeah.

I think

we got a really good opportunity to go to Tokyo or overseas because of maybe our parents.

Yeah.

I think there are some people in Okinawa who weren't blessed with that kind of experience because of the high poverty rate.

Yeah.

At some point, we earn it by ourselves, but

there's really no place to connect.

Yeah.

There are people who can't study abroad.

Yeah.

It's okay.

It's okay if the person who did it wants to tell you something.

Yeah.

My plan is to have a

mainland-level business experience

in Tokyo or overseas.

In the end,

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people who are younger than us in Okinawa

or people who have the potential

to learn about new things

or to expand their

you know,

to expand their knowledge.

Yeah.

I've wanted to teach someone

since I was in college.

Yeah.

I'm not saying this from the top of my head,

but I've been given so many opportunities.

Yeah.

As Akane said,

people who came from Tokyo or the mainland

are obviously better at business.

Doing the business or marketing things.

I understand that.

But,

of course,

I don't know how to say it.

In Hawaii,

it's probably used as a source of tourism,

so a lot of people from outside

bring a lot of ideas

and make flashy things.

That's what they're doing now.

Yeah.

I think that's something we should

we'd appreciate

to raise our economic level.

Yeah.

But at the same time,

we need to be aware

that the people from outside

get involved with

making money.

Yeah.

And most of our hotels,

our main revenue goes to

people not Okinawa.

Yeah.

And that's obvious.

You all know, right?

It's called Zaru Keizai.

It's easy to work at a hotel,

but

when you aim to promote

maybe going to the main branch

in Tokyo or

being the director

of some kind of department,

the hurdle suddenly rises.

And that's not

what the locals do.

Yeah.

But experience-wise,

it makes sense.

Yeah.

It's not like

you have to do it because you're local.

It's something you can do,

so you can't

stay in Okinawa forever.

That's one reason

why I feel like I've been

outside a lot.

Yeah.

That's true.

There's a lot to do.

That's why.

Busy, busy.

Do you want to do

the education?

Yeah.

Eventually.

But you don't have to

go to the education industry.

We have social media.

Yeah.

And we can be

influential

to encourage others.

Yeah.

I used to be particular about

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my job.

Yeah.

I want people to know me

as a good person.

It doesn't have to be a young person.

It can be anyone.

Yeah, I get what you're saying.

Like, there's this kind of person.

Yeah.

If this person can do it,

I want people to think

I can do it too.

Yeah.

That's true.

Each person is special.

Yeah.

Even though

I'm a radio host,

everyone is a professional

in their own way.

They have their own

experience.

Yeah.

Everyone has their own

way of expressing themselves.

Some people are good at it,

some people are not.

I want to be able to

connect people like that.

That's true.

I want to focus more on

people who have been

living in Okinawa

for a long time.

I want to connect

people like that.

I want to

connect people like that.

I want to

teach people who are not interested

in Okinawan culture

in a new way.

That way,

they can see

cool Okinawan culture.

I've been doing a lot of things.

I want to

spread

Okinawan beauty.

That's true.

I'm interested in

preserving Okinawan

dialect, too.

I see.

This radio

only has the opening

in Okinawan.

We just speak normally.

Sometimes we mix

standard Japanese.

I don't know how to say it.

The opening

is

We didn't made it.

Yeah.

My dad translates

what we're gonna say.

That's why I'm saying it.

I sometimes feel like

if my Japanese level

is 100,

then my English level

maybe 70%.

Then I ask myself

how about my Okinawan level?

I mean,

language-wise.

Then maybe I'll be 10%.

I sometimes think like that.

Why

why can't I

do what's at my core?

That's what I think.

In Japan,

even at school,

history was

all about Japan.

48:00

Yeah.

I don't know

if I should research

Okinawan history myself.

My dad told me

the difference between Okinawa

and Ryukyu.

He didn't teach me much.

I grew up in a place

where I didn't know much.

I think there are

a lot of people who don't know.

So

that's just

a little sad.

I always thought

we study kanbun and kobun.

What the fuck?

We don't even pass through

that language in our history.

We have our own language.

That's what I thought.

Why are we learning this?

Because

we became Japan after

the world war.

At the same time,

I consider myself

as Japanese too.

It's kind of a

We need to learn

both cultures.

It's complicated feelings

sometimes.

Then I need to do

I need to do

Dokugaku.

Then I need to have

more time.

I need to think more.

It's something

that people have

much more freedom

in their lives.

Minami is

free to do

whatever she wants.

She doesn't have to choose a place or time.

That's why

she's getting more and more

free.

She can make her own time

for studying or doing radio.

I don't think that

everyone has this opportunity

or this much of freedom.

That's what I feel.

I think

we need to spread

what we can do.

Through this radio,

we always invite

guests

and they talk about

their thoughts, feelings

and their experiences.

We sometimes invite

Okinawan grandpas and grandmas

or

even my mom and dad

or

relatives.

I think

Okinawan war

or

we don't always talk about it

but when we hear it,

we talk about it.

I think this talk

resonates with everyone.

I think

it's a good opportunity

to do more

by yourself.

When

Shuri Yo Castle was

on fire, it was an opportunity.

For me,

it was a big opportunity.

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I studied

about Okinawa

and went to make a vase.

I went to see Shuri Castle

many times.

I think

it's a good opportunity

for everyone

to have something

like an education

or

a job.

I think it's a good opportunity.

That's right.

When Shuri Castle

was

on fire,

my mom was crying

at the TV.

That was so surprising

for me.

My mom doesn't go to Shuri Castle

every day.

But

my mom was crying so much.

I realized how

valuable it was.

After that day,

I went to Okinawa Shrine

for work.

The people at the shrine

were so sad.

I wondered

if people at shrines

or castles

have that kind of feeling.

It's totally different.

My friends

from Brazil

didn't come to school

when the soccer game

was lost.

When they lost?

Yeah.

That's how passionate

about their country

they are.

I don't understand

that feeling at all.

Soccer and Shuri Castle

are totally different,

but I think it's good

for each country.

But

especially

people

from Latin culture,

they are really

emotional.

Yeah.

When they're feeling something,

like my other friends

from Spain

was crying in the class

talking to their family.

Nothing happened,

but they were crying all the time.

I was like,

why are they so sad?

The way they express their feelings

is totally different.

I think

Japanese people

have a mindset

to forget something

54:01

because it's work.

But especially Japanese people

are

not really emotional.

They need to hide their feeling

because of our culture.

Yeah.

They can endure

anything.

Yeah.

We definitely feel

some kind of feelings,

but in public,

we should or we need to hide.

Yeah.

We still have

a culture that

we need to be together.

Yeah.

It's a good thing.

Yeah.

That's why

people call it

Uchina time.

It's friendly.

Uchina time

means good?

No.

It means

casual and friendly.

People say that a lot

in Okinawa.

I think

it's different from

mainland people.

Yeah.

They express their feelings

at a high pace.

That's what I thought.

People say that

people change their personality

when it's hot or cold.

Yeah.

So today,

we talked about

Shurijo Castle burned down

in 2019

and how we felt about it.

And also,

we talked about the difference

to nature

through our experiences.

That's why

we want to preserve our culture

and we want to engage with

people who are

really not interested in

Okinawan culture,

but we want them to know

that it's really

important and special.

That's what we talked about.

We still need to

educate ourselves.

So I hope we can

connect with people

who listen to this radio

and teach us.

That's right.

I hope we can connect

with them.

I want to hear more

from people like that.

I think so.

Yay!

That's all for today.

Yeah.

See you guys.

See you. Bye.

Bye-bye.

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