00:00
サリー
Welcome back everybody to the deep dive. This time we're going on a deep dive into the future of learning in Japan, specifically in Japan.
Yeah, you've sent us a ton of research.
A lot of it is really fascinating stuff.
Podcast clips, articles, even your own notes.
ジェームズ
Yeah.
And one thing's for sure.
You are fascinated by the changes happening in education.
サリー
I mean, we're seeing new universities opening up, AI tools, philosophies, even a whole new philosophy of learning, even.
And you know what I noticed?
A lot of your research kept coming back to this one professor, Professor Tana and his idea of these free learners.
ジェームズ
It's like he's at the heart of it all, isn't it?
サリー
He really is. He's like everywhere.
ジェームズ
He's a university professor, but also a podcaster.
サリー
Yeah, a podcaster, which I think is really cool.
And one of the things that really stood out to me from the beginning is how he wants to change the way we think about students who are learning outside the traditional system.
ジェームズ
Right, right.
サリー
Like those who aren't necessarily going to a typical school.
ジェームズ
Exactly.
And, you know, instead of using the term futoko, which basically means like non-attendant student, a student who's not attending school.
Yeah.
サリー
He wants to replace that term with jiyu gakushusha, which basically means free learner.
ジェームズ
Yeah.
It kind of makes you think, what exactly does Professor Tana mean by this free learner?
サリー
Yeah.
ジェームズ
Is it just about not going to school or is there more to it than that?
サリー
Well, he kind of flips the script and actually calls the students who are in traditional schools non-free learners.
ジェームズ
Wow.
サリー
Which is a pretty bold statement.
ジェームズ
It is.
He's basically changing the way we think about learning, right?
Like, what does it even mean to be engaged?
Is it just sitting in a classroom?
サリー
Right.
ジェームズ
Or can you be actively pursuing knowledge in other ways?
サリー
Absolutely.
ジェームズ
I mean, it really makes you think about your own learning journey.
サリー
Yeah.
ジェームズ
Where do you feel the most engaged and free to learn?
サリー
And my notes actually point out that Professor Tana kind of became this free learner within the system itself, even as a student.
ジェームズ
Hmm.
Interesting.
サリー
Like, he talks about taking challenging courses where the lectures weren't really clicking for him.
But instead of just giving up, he sought out additional resources.
ジェームズ
Like, he hacked the system almost.
Yeah.
サリー
Like, he basically created his own learning path.
ジェームズ
He focused on truly understanding the material.
サリー
Exactly.
Instead of just memorizing for exams.
ジェームズ
Which really connects with what you mentioned earlier, right?
This desire for practical knowledge.
サリー
Yeah.
And not just learning for a test.
ジェームズ
Exactly.
サリー
But he says that those years of, you know, intense exam prep, which is pretty typical in the Japanese education system, actually pushed him to become this more independent learner.
ジェームズ
Wow.
サリー
Like, he had to figure things out on his own.
ジェームズ
It's like those challenges made him stronger, in a way.
サリー
And it kind of challenges this assumption that, you know, the traditional methods of drilling and memorization are always the best way.
ジェームズ
Right.
He even argues that tackling real world problems could be a more effective and more engaging.
サリー
Yeah.
Way to learn.
ジェームズ
It's about applying what you learn, not just storing it away.
03:00
サリー
So if traditional education has these limitations, then what are the alternatives?
Well, your research pointed out some really exciting new initiatives happening in Japan.
ジェームズ
Yeah.
サリー
And one of them is ZEN University.
ジェームズ
Which opens in April 2025.
サリー
Yeah.
April 2025.
And what I thought was fascinating was the partnership behind it.
ジェームズ
Yeah.
サリー
You've got Dwango.
ジェームズ
The company behind the Niconico video platform.
サリー
Exactly.
Teaming up with the Nippon Foundation.
ジェームズ
Which is a philanthropic organization.
サリー
It's not something you see every day, right?
ジェームズ
It's a strange mix.
You know, tech and philanthropy coming together to make a university.
サリー
What does that tell us about how education is changing?
You know.
ジェームズ
Exactly.
And ZEN University is designed to really challenge the traditional university model.
サリー
It's mainly going to be online.
ジェームズ
And prioritize practical experience.
サリー
Yeah.
Which is a big shift from the traditional kind of brick and mortar approach.
ジェームズ
For sure.
サリー
And your notes also pointed out Minerva Schools at KGI.
ジェームズ
Oh yeah.
With that global campus model.
サリー
Yeah.
Students actually get to live and study in multiple cities around the world.
ジェームズ
I mean, that really speaks to your interest in flexible learning, doesn't it?
サリー
Yeah, it does.
ジェームズ
It's like learning can happen anywhere these days.
サリー
And then there's Teleport School.
ジェームズ
Right.
Which uses AI.
サリー
It's all about using AI to create this global community-driven learning environment.
ジェームズ
And it's led by Hirano Tomoyasu.
サリー
Professor Tana is really excited about this one.
ジェームズ
He seems to be, yeah.
サリー
He followed Hirano's previous project, the Web Composer School.
ジェームズ
Which used Ustream to teach web design.
サリー
Yeah.
And build this online community.
ジェームズ
And it seems like Professor Tana sees Teleport School as a kind of evolution of that.
サリー
Yeah.
But on a much larger scale.
ジェームズ
Leveraging the power of AI.
サリー
Now, Teleport School hasn't actually launched yet.
ジェームズ
Right.
サリー
But you've been following its development.
ジェームズ
Through Hirano's podcast, Teleport Radio.
Yeah.
サリー
What are your initial thoughts on it?
ジェームズ
Well, the potential is just enormous.
If it could actually deliver on its promises, you know.
サリー
Yeah.
ジェームズ
Imagine students from all over the world connecting, learning together.
サリー
Regardless of where they are.
ジェームズ
Right.
And AI can personalize the experience even further.
サリー
To make sure each student is getting the support they need.
ジェームズ
It really begs the question, what role will AI play in the future of education?
サリー
It's a good question.
I think before we go too far down that road, we need to understand where Professor Tana is coming from.
With his critique of the existing education system, you know.
ジェームズ
Right.
Right.
サリー
He's not just blindly embracing technology.
ジェームズ
No, he's got some serious concerns.
サリー
And he uses some really relatable anecdotes to illustrate those concerns.
ジェームズ
Like that story about the faculty meeting, right?
サリー
Yeah.
Where he overheard professors complaining about students struggling with basic math.
ジェームズ
Even at the university level.
サリー
Which is a pretty common complaint.
ジェームズ
Yeah.
It's like every generation thinks the next one is less skilled.
Yeah.
サリー
But Professor Tana doesn't just dismiss it as kids these days, you know.
ジェームズ
Right.
サリー
He asks a deeper question.
ジェームズ
He asks, is it the students?
06:01
ジェームズ
Or is it the way we're teaching them?
サリー
Exactly.
ジェームズ
He's challenging the system itself.
サリー
And he points out that universities often try to fix this by adding more remedial classes, more material.
But he says that might actually be making things worse.
ジェームズ
How so?
サリー
Well, students get bogged down with all this information.
ジェームズ
Yeah.
サリー
And they end up just resorting to rote memorization.
ジェームズ
Just to get by.
サリー
And test taking tricks.
ジェームズ
Just to survive, yeah.
サリー
And he calls this superficial learning.
ジェームズ
Because they're so focused on the grade.
サリー
That they miss out on actually understanding the material.
ジェームズ
And then they start to dislike the subject.
サリー
Their motivation plummets.
ジェームズ
It's a vicious cycle.
サリー
And what's really interesting is that he admits that he fell into this trap himself.
ジェームズ
Really?
サリー
As a university student.
ジェームズ
Wow.
サリー
He struggled with math and just memorized formulas to pass the exams.
ジェームズ
Even though he didn't really get it?
サリー
Even though he didn't really understand the concept.
ジェームズ
That's a powerful admission.
サリー
It is.
Because it shows that even someone who went on to become a professor can get caught in this system that prioritizes grades over
genuine learning.
ジェームズ
It makes you wonder how many other students are out there who are capable of so much more.
サリー
Yeah.
ジェームズ
But are being held back by this system.
サリー
And he argues that maybe we don't always need to master the basics before moving on.
ジェームズ
Interesting.
サリー
He suggests that we might learn best by tackling real problems.
ジェームズ
Even if we don't have all the foundational knowledge yet.
サリー
Exactly.
ジェームズ
He's not saying fundamentals aren't important.
サリー
Right.
ジェームズ
But maybe the traditional way of drilling them in isolation isn't the most effective.
サリー
He's basically saying that the struggle can be a valuable part of learning.
ジェームズ
It's about fostering a growth mindset.
サリー
Where challenges are opportunities.
ジェームズ
To learn and grow.
サリー
Not threats.
ジェームズ
To your self-esteem.
サリー
And he also points out how isolating traditional classrooms can be.
Like if you're sitting there feeling like you're the only one who doesn't understand something.
ジェームズ
It can be so discouraging.
サリー
He believes universities could do more to create a sense of community.
ジェームズ
Where students feel comfortable asking for help.
サリー
Collaborating.
ジェームズ
Learning from each other's struggles.
サリー
And this is where he sees the potential of initiatives like Teleport School.
ジェームズ
Right.
Which aims to connect learners from all over the world.
サリー
Creating this global community.
ジェームズ
Where people can support each other's learning.
サリー
He believes technology, when used thoughtfully, can actually help us build stronger connections.
ジェームズ
And create more inclusive learning environments.
サリー
Absolutely.
ジェームズ
Hmm.
That's interesting.
サリー
Yeah.
ジェームズ
Yeah.
It really makes you think how these new models of education, especially with the technology and the community aspect, could address some of the limitations that Professor Tana was talking about.
サリー
For sure.
And speaking of technology, we can't ignore AI, can we?
ジェームズ
Right.
It's the elephant in the room.
サリー
Professor Tana seems really excited about AI's potential to just revolutionize learning.
ジェームズ
He really does.
サリー
And your research materials are full of examples.
ジェームズ
Yeah, there's a lot.
サリー
Like one that really blew me away was Teleport's recent project using AI to decipher ancient Japanese texts.
09:04
ジェームズ
Oh, yeah, that was incredible, wasn't it?
サリー
I mean, these texts were basically unreadable to most people today.
ジェームズ
Yeah, they were written in a style that's almost impossible to understand now.
サリー
But Teleport's AI was able to analyze them and actually provide context and insights that are helping researchers understand these documents in a whole new way.
ジェームズ
It's amazing.
サリー
Professor Tana seems to think this is a game changer for historical research.
ジェームズ
He does.
He really does.
サリー
Like in one of his podcasts, he talks about how AI could help us uncover hidden connections.
ジェームズ
Yeah, find patterns in history that we might have missed.
サリー
And potentially even rewrite our understanding of the past.
ジェームズ
Wow.
サリー
It's like having a research assistant.
ジェームズ
Who can just plow through tons of data and find the important stuff.
サリー
Exactly.
Saving historians so much time and effort.
ジェームズ
And it wasn't just any AI either.
サリー
Right.
ジェームズ
It was trained on a massive amount of data.
サリー
Ancient Japanese writing.
ジェームズ
So we could recognize patterns and make educated guesses about the meaning of characters that were just.
サリー
Impossible to read.
ジェームズ
To read, yeah.
サリー
It's incredible.
ジェームズ
It really is.
サリー
And he doesn't just see this as something that will benefit academics.
ジェームズ
Right.
サリー
He imagines students using this technology to engage with primary sources directly.
ジェームズ
To experience history in a more immersive and interactive way.
サリー
So instead of just reading about history in a textbook.
ジェームズ
They could be analyzing ancient letters.
Government documents even.
サリー
Piecing together their own narratives of the past.
ジェームズ
That would be pretty amazing, wouldn't it?
サリー
It would.
And it actually connects back to this idea of personalized learning.
ジェームズ
Oh, yeah.
How so?
サリー
Well, AI could help tailor the learning experience to each student's individual interests and learning style.
ジェームズ
Oh, I see.
サリー
So, like, imagine a student who's fascinated by, let's say, Oda Nobunaga.
ジェームズ
Oh, that's a good one.
サリー
The AI could pull up all sorts of relevant documents.
ジェームズ
Create interactive timelines.
サリー
Maybe even simulate conversations with him.
ジェームズ
Wow, that's amazing.
サリー
I know, right?
ジェームズ
It would be like stepping back in time.
サリー
Speaking of personalized learning, one of my notes references Professor Tana's own experiences with using Google's NotebookLM.
ジェームズ
Oh, right.
The AI tool that analyzes audio and text.
サリー
Yeah.
And he's been using it to reflect on his own lectures.
ジェームズ
To see how he can improve.
サリー
And he's even thinking about sharing it with his fellow professors.
ジェームズ
He's really embracing AI, isn't he?
サリー
He's like a walking advertisement for it.
ジェームズ
I know.
I mean, if someone like him is finding these tools so helpful, just imagine the possibilities for the rest of us.
サリー
So we've got NotebookLM, which focuses on personalized learning for individuals.
ジェームズ
Right.
サリー
But then we have Teleport, which has this much bigger ambition.
ジェームズ
To create a global learning community powered by AI.
サリー
Exactly.
Professor Tana talks about Teleport becoming this hub for learning where people from all over the world can connect and learn together.
ジェームズ
It's like a virtual university without borders.
サリー
Constantly evolving based on the needs and interests of its users.
ジェームズ
It's a pretty exciting vision.
サリー
It is.
And you actually pointed out in one of your notes how he compares Teleport to this very platform.
ジェームズ
To this podcast.
サリー
To this podcast.
12:00
サリー
He says that we already have many of the features of a virtual university.
ジェームズ
Like what?
サリー
Like experts sharing insights.
ジェームズ
Right.
サリー
LISTENers engaging with those ideas and these transcripts, creating a rich archive of knowledge that people can access anytime, anywhere.
ジェームズ
He's right.
We are kind of like a proto-Teleport in a way.
サリー
And this deep dive format is all about making complex information more accessible and engaging.
ジェームズ
We're taking all of your research.
サリー
Distilling the key insights.
ジェームズ
And hopefully making you think about things in new ways.
サリー
So maybe the future of learning isn't about replacing traditional institutions entirely.
ジェームズ
But finding ways to complement and enhance them.
サリー
Creating a more diverse and dynamic learning ecosystem where people can learn in the way that works best for them.
ジェームズ
And technology can help to personalize those experiences.
サリー
And connect people from all over the world.
ジェームズ
Absolutely.
サリー
So we've talked about AI's potential to revolutionize historical research.
ジェームズ
To personalize learning.
サリー
To create these global communities.
ジェームズ
Professor Tana also believes that AI could have a huge impact on creativity.
サリー
You've mentioned several times how much you value creativity.
ジェームズ
I do.
It's very important to me.
サリー
Do you see a role for AI in the creative process?
ジェームズ
Well, Professor Tana doesn't think AI is going to replace human creativity.
サリー
Right.
ジェームズ
He sees it more as a collaborator.
サリー
A partner.
ジェームズ
In the creative process.
Yeah.
サリー
Like AI can give us tools and resources that can spark our imagination.
ジェームズ
Help us come up with new ideas.
サリー
Maybe even challenge our assumptions.
ジェームズ
And push the boundaries of what's possible.
サリー
I've always thought of creativity as something uniquely human.
ジェームズ
Yeah, me too.
サリー
Something that a machine could never replicate.
ジェームズ
But Professor Tanna thinks AI could actually help us become more creative.
サリー
More creative.
ジェームズ
Yeah, it could do things that we can't.
サリー
Like what?
ジェームズ
Like analyze huge amounts of data.
サリー
From creative works to identify patterns and trends.
ジェームズ
Exactly.
サリー
It could help us generate ideas.
ジェームズ
Explore different styles.
サリー
Even create prototypes or drafts that we can then work with.
ジェームズ
It's like having a brainstorming partner who knows everything about the history of creativity.
サリー
It's mind blowing.
ジェームズ
It is.
サリー
So you're saying AI could be a powerful tool for anyone who wants to express themselves creatively.
ジェームズ
Absolutely.
サリー
Whether it's through writing.
ジェームズ
Music, art.
Any form of expression really.
サリー
And it could make creativity more accessible to people who maybe don't have the time or resources or the technical skills to pursue it on their own.
ジェームズ
Exactly.
サリー
So maybe creativity doesn't have to be limited to a select few anymore.
ジェームズ
Right.
And this is where Professor Tanna's idea of the democratization of creativity comes in.
サリー
He believes AI has the potential to break down barriers that have traditionally limited access to creative tools and opportunities.
ジェームズ
So anyone, regardless of their background, could create music, write stories, design buildings, invent new things, all with the help of AI.
サリー
That's a powerful vision.
ジェームズ
It is a world where creativity is no longer just for the elite.
サリー
But a fundamental human right.
ジェームズ
Accessible to all.
サリー
And this aligns with your belief in the power of creativity to transform lives.
15:01
ジェームズ
Build communities.
サリー
To make the world a better place.
ジェームズ
Absolutely.
サリー
Professor Tana is very clear that this future of learning.
ジェームズ
It's not set in stone.
サリー
It's something we're actively creating.
ジェームズ
Through our choices, our actions, our willingness to embrace new ideas.
サリー
So as you continue to learn about Japanese education and the future of learning, what stands out to you the most?
ジェームズ
What resonates with your own experiences and aspirations?
サリー
And what are you most curious to learn more about?
ジェームズ
It's an exciting time to be exploring these ideas.
サリー
We've talked a lot about Professor Tana's enthusiasm for all of this.
ジェームズ
But is there another side to this?
サリー
What about the potential downsides of AI in education?
ジェームズ
Are there risks we should be aware of?
サリー
As we navigate this new landscape.
ジェームズ
It's a good question, isn't it?
サリー
Yeah.
ジェームズ
I mean, it's like any new tool, really.
It can be used for good or for bad, you know.
サリー
Right.
Depending on who's using it and what their intentions are.
ジェームズ
And with AI being as powerful as it is.
サリー
The stakes are pretty high.
ジェームズ
The stakes are very high.
サリー
One thing I worry about is that it could actually worsen inequality in education, you know.
ジェームズ
How so?
サリー
Like, what if only the elite schools or the wealthy students can afford these, you know, fancy new AI learning tools?
ジェームズ
That's a valid concern.
It's happened before with other technologies where the benefits haven't been shared equally.
サリー
Yeah.
ジェームズ
We need to be really careful about that with AI.
サリー
We need to make sure it's accessible to everyone.
ジェームズ
To everyone, not just a select few.
サリー
And then there's bias, too.
ジェームズ
Right.
サリー
We know these algorithms are only as good as the data they're trained on.
So if that data reflects existing biases in society, then the AI is going to perpetuate those biases, potentially leading to some unfair outcomes.
ジェームズ
That's a huge point.
I mean, we've already seen examples of AI systems that show bias, like in facial recognition.
サリー
Yeah.
ジェームズ
Or hiring algorithms.
サリー
Yeah.
It's really important that we're careful about the data used to train these systems.
ジェームズ
And that we constantly check for any signs of bias.
サリー
Another thing I'm curious about is the impact on teachers.
ジェームズ
Right.
What does this mean for them?
サリー
Yeah.
Will AI eventually replace teachers?
ジェームズ
Or will it just change their role?
I don't know if anyone really knows the answer yet.
ジェームズ
It's hard to say.
サリー
But some experts think that AI will mostly automate those routine tasks, freeing up teachers to focus on more creative and interpersonal stuff.
ジェームズ
Like instead of spending hours grading papers, they could be having more one-on-one conversations with students, facilitating group projects, developing new lesson plans.
サリー
Exactly.
ジェームズ
So AI could actually be a really valuable tool for teachers, helping them to personalize learning, providing feedback, identifying where students need help.
サリー
But I still think there will always be that human element to teaching.
ジェームズ
Right.
サリー
It's about the connection, that relationship between teacher and student.
ジェームズ
The mentorship aspect.
サリー
That's something a machine just can't replicate, in my opinion.
ジェームズ
And what about the social-emotional side of learning?
サリー
Right.
Like collaboration and empathy and all that.
ジェームズ
That's where humans really excel.
サリー
So maybe the future isn't AI versus humans.
18:00
ジェームズ
Maybe it's more about finding the right balance.
サリー
A right partnership.
ジェームズ
Where AI can do what it's good at.
サリー
And humans can focus on what they do best.
ジェームズ
Makes sense.
サリー
You mentioned earlier this idea that AI could create a more inclusive and equitable learning landscape.
ジェームズ
Right.
What if AI could help level the playing field?
サリー
That really resonated with me.
ジェームズ
It's a powerful thought, isn't it?
Everyone having access to those high-quality learning opportunities.
サリー
I keep thinking back to Professor Tanna's critique of traditional education, you know, how it often focuses so much on memorization and test-taking.
ジェームズ
At the expense of real understanding.
サリー
Exactly.
Could AI help us move away from those standardized measures?
ジェームズ
To recognize a broader range of skills and talents.
サリー
Yeah.
And maybe even help us nurture those abilities.
ジェームズ
Creating more personalized learning paths for each student.
サリー
Instead of trying to fit everyone into the same box.
ジェームズ
It would be a much more holistic approach.
サリー
And maybe AI could even help us identify and address the hidden biases in the system.
ジェームズ
That's an interesting idea.
サリー
You know, we know that some students are just disadvantaged because of systemic factors.
ジェームズ
Right.
サリー
But AI might help us see those patterns more clearly.
ジェームズ
And find ways to make things more equitable.
サリー
So it's like we have this powerful tool now that can help us make better decisions about how we design education.
ジェームズ
Right.
サリー
And this idea of AI for inclusion, it goes beyond just formal education, too.
ジェームズ
How so?
サリー
Like, think about how it could impact access to information and learning opportunities for people with disabilities, for example.
ジェームズ
Oh, I see.
サリー
Or for people in remote areas.
ジェームズ
Or people who are facing financial barriers.
サリー
Yeah.
We're already starting to see some of this potential with language translation tools.
ジェームズ
Right.
サリー
Accessibility features.
ジェームズ
And online learning platforms.
サリー
All powered by AI.
ジェームズ
It's exciting to think about how these tools will evolve.
サリー
Breaking down even more barriers.
ジェームズ
And creating a truly global learning ecosystem where everyone can participate.
サリー
That really connects with Professor Tana's vision of a democratized future.
ジェームズ
Where technology empowers individuals and communities.
サリー
And helps to create a more just and equitable world.
ジェームズ
Absolutely.
サリー
But as Professor Tana would probably remind us, technology is just a tool.
ジェームズ
Right.
It's up to us how we use it.
サリー
And what values we embed in it.
ジェームズ
And what kind of future we want to build with it.
サリー
So as we wrap up our deep dive into the future of learning in Japan.
ジェームズ
We want to leave you with this challenge.
サリー
To imagine a future where AI isn't just about personalized learning.
ジェームズ
But about creating a more inclusive, equitable, and just world for everyone.
サリー
What role will you play in shaping that future?
ジェームズ
What steps can you take to make sure AI benefits everyone?
サリー
These are important questions for all of us to consider.
ジェームズ
As we navigate this ever-changing world.
サリー
And the answers will probably be different for everyone.
ジェームズ
But one thing is for sure.
サリー
The future of learning is in our hands.
ジェームズ
It's up to us to shape it.
サリー
It's up to us to shape it.
