00:02
Hello, hello, hello, everybody. Welcome to ourpodcast. This is Yusuke.
And here is Sandra.
We didn't decide the name of the podcast yet, no?
Oh, true.
What do you want to do?
Sandra and Yusuke talking.
It's really long though.
Yeah, I think about that a lot.
Okay, okay.
Alright, today we're gonna talk about yourfavorite topic.
Yeah.
Giving birth in other country slash Japan for yourcase.
So, tell me about because you have twice.
And the summary would be first one, a little bitnegative.
Second one, awesome, right?
Yeah, as far as birth can be awesome.
Yes, 100%.
Alright, let's go to first one.
Yeah, so the first one to give a little backgroundinformation.
I felt pregnant in summer 19, I think.
So, the due date was April 22, 2020.
So, maybe if you remember what happened aroundthat time, you know what I will be talking about.
What happened around that time?
I think Corona happened.
Lockdown.
Yes.
So, I never imagined in a million years that Iwould have my baby without like seeing my husband,without seeing my parents, without anybody likejust me in a hospital room.
Yeah.
But let's go back to the start.
I mean, lockdown started right after giving birth.
So, when I was in the hospital.
During the pregnancy was pretty normal.
Yeah, but the thing was because it was our firstbaby, we wanted to be safe.
So, we decided to go to a big university hospital,not naming any names.
But yeah, because for us, safety was the highestpriority.
We didn't think anything else really matters.
Because we wanted that I'll be taken care ofreally well if there's an emergency and the baby.
And it was the case, right?
Yeah, totally.
What I was thinking is if you go universityhospital, if something happens, they can transferto the other department.
And I thought it's safer.
So, that's the reason why we chose big hospital.
Yes.
And also at that time, I really didn't speak anyJapanese.
At all.
Like a little bit like thank you.
And it was fine.
But then towards the end, suddenly my bloodpressure got really high.
And they told me I have to be careful.
03:01
And then one day Yusuke was working.
So, Yusuke's parents took me to the checkup.
And they told us that...
Wait, wait, wait.
You skipped all the pregnancy part?
Yeah, that's...
Do we...
Should I talk about it?
Yeah, because that's the pregnancy, you know, likeyou're giving birth.
No, that could be another podcast.
Now we talk about giving birth, right?
Okay.
So, it's separate.
Yeah.
You love that topic, huh?
Yeah, I love the topic.
There's so much to talk about.
Okay, okay.
Yeah.
Okay.
So, I think I was 36 weeks.
And we went to this checkup without Yusuke becausehe was working.
I attended everything except this one.
This one, yes.
Yeah, true.
He attended every single checkup except this one.
But he organized his parents to come with mebecause of translation and everything.
And then there was a paper at the entrance whichsaid that...
In case you give birth from now on, the husbandcan't come to visit you because of this new virusthat's going around.
I was already in shock.
I'm like, there's no way I could stay seven dayswithout my husband.
Yeah.
And his mom tried to calm me down, but I wasalready freaking out.
And then we went inside the ex-animation room.
And then the doctor was checking me.
And then they started to speak in Japanese.
And then Yusuke's parents talking back.
The doctor saying something, looking at me,talking, talking.
I was like, oh, that sounds not good.
And then Yusuke's dad translated to mestraightforward.
Yeah, the baby has to come out next week becauseof your blood pressure.
It's otherwise too dangerous.
And I was in shock.
I was like, what?
Because that's not how I imagined.
I had this birth plan ready and blah, blah, blah.
Yeah.
Yeah, and then I was a mess.
I cried, cried, cried, cried.
And I called my parents.
I called Yusuke.
And Yusuke's parents tried to make me calm.
But I was a mess.
Yeah.
Because I think the university hospital or a bighospital tend to choose the least risky way.
So I think that decision was really quick.
That's because they have a lot of cases and theyknow if this is this.
Like they have to kind of like a manual.
If the blood pressure gets higher, it's thechances that you get preeclampsia, which is reallydangerous.
So now I'm logical thinking and it makes sense.
But at that time I had pregnancy hormones, myfirst baby.
I had no idea.
I was really, really, really so scared.
Especially first time, right?
Yeah.
And then after they were checking my breasts.
And then they were saying, oh, your nipples arenot good.
You can't breastfeed.
I was like, what?
And then I watched so many YouTube videos and thenwe went home.
06:01
And I think four days later was the day that Ineed to go for this induction.
And then I was already shocked again because theyused this method where they put seaweed sticksinside of my cervix to soften the cervix.
And then later the next morning I would getmedicine to make the birth process.
And then Yusuke could stay with me.
That's I need to say.
He was still allowed to stay with me during thattime.
But he had to leave at 8 p.m. at night.
And then during the birth he was allowed.
But as soon as I go to the room, he had to gohome.
So they did this 4 p.m.
And they put the seaweed sticks and it felt likereally, really strong period pain.
And then they told me I should sleep.
How can I sleep with seaweed sticks in my vagina?
I was thinking also like, seaweed stick, is itnormal?
Is it Japanese way?
What kind of medication is that?
And then I thought it's gonna happen next day, youknow.
So I was like, OK, let's get sleep tonight andthen tomorrow is the due date.
Let's do that.
And at that time I was really suspicious.
I didn't trust the doctors.
And everything they said, I had to Google andquestion everything, which was so stressful.
And now I'm like, Sandra, just trust them.
You know, they know what you're doing.
And it made my life much harder.
And I always double checked with midwives inSwitzerland and compared what is better, whichgave me extra stress.
Yeah, anyways, I think I remember I couldn'tsleep, of course.
And I talked with my sisters.
I talked with my mom.
And then I remember like at around midnight, I wastalking with my sisters and she said,
Hey, Sandra, your face is so red.
Are you OK?
I'm like, I'm in so much period pain.
But my period pain is always so bad.
So I didn't realize it's actually contraction.
I just thought it's...
You're so strong.
Yeah.
And then I think I slept a bit.
And when I woke up, I thought, oh, no, I just peedmyself.
And then I went to the toilet and then this waterjust came out.
And it took me a while to realize that my waterbroke.
But then no joke, from 0 to 100, I had contractions back to back.
And then I was so scared and it was so painful.
And we did a breathing workshop before that.
So they taught us how to breathe.
How do I need to breathe?
It was like something like...
Yeah, I think she taught us three differenttechniques.
But I just remember that one like...
You know, nothing kidding or joking.
No, no.
It's just I didn't expect.
It sounds funny.
Yeah, we didn't expect that way.
09:01
Yeah.
And then the doula, do you say doula?
Doula, yeah.
Doula taught us that...
OK, prepare the oil or like a smell or something.
This is for later.
OK.
We're not there yet.
OK.
All right.
Sorry, it's my topic, you know.
OK.
So anyway, and then I said...
Which means like, I need my husband, husband.
And then they're like, yeah, yeah, call.
But I thought they call him.
So and then they said I need to go to the ex-animation room and take out the seaweed sticks.
And can you imagine?
I had 100% contraction.
It was so painful.
And I had to put my legs up.
And they take the seaweed sticks.
And there were nine, nine inside.
So they took it out.
And I was like...
And then I came back to the room.
And I was like...
And then they're like...
And they pointed to my phone.
I'm like, what?
I thought he would already be here when this isfinished.
And then they're like, I need to call him.
So I called him.
You didn't understand.
No, I didn't get it.
I thought.
Yeah.
And then how did you...
You changed your ring.
The sound, right?
Of the phone.
Yeah.
What was it?
I forgot.
It's Shirin, I think.
Was it?
Oh, I think so.
I don't know.
Something is really noisy.
Shape of you or something.
No, no, no.
No.
Shape of you.
But it was 4 a.m., right?
I think something Star Wars.
Maybe.
And it was 4 a.m., right?
And then you got the call.
Yeah.
And then I could go to this hospital by bike.
But it was me calling, right?
I think so.
Yeah.
I don't really remember.
Yeah.
The thing is we forget.
Yeah.
We erase the details.
And yeah.
Then I ride bike.
And I was like, oh, my God.
Oh, my God.
I need to be there ASAP.
But at the same time, I don't want to be in a caraccident or something.
So I was super careful and ride bike and then bethere.
Yeah.
And then you enter the room.
And then I hear the sound.
I'm like, oh, so actually you're doing this.
Like I didn't.
I couldn't believe that this really, you know,people do it.
Yeah.
I think they gave me this funny chair like to putmy knee on it and kind of be like up straight.
And then we had this little bag with massage oil.
That's what you wanted to tell before.
And a tennis ball and like these things.
And then he was like, OK, Sandy, let's do thistechnique where I massage your hand with the lemongrass.
And I'm like, don't touch me.
And he was like, OK, let's count together to 10and breathe.
I'm like, just be quiet.
Like shut up.
Yeah.
And yeah.
I could only do water serving.
Yeah.
And then they came back in again and checked.
And they're like, wow, you're already fully open.
You need to go to the delivery room.
12:02
Yeah.
But before like you have you had to like put thearms on my neck.
This was then in the delivery room.
No, before.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
It was already.
I don't remember.
And then at the time I was like, I don't knowwhat.
I pushed up everyday.
Yeah.
He did like this thing where he tries so many push-ups as much as he can.
Yeah.
I don't know why.
I think I wanted to prepare or like.
But for me, this was the position that didn'thurt.
Like I mean, didn't hurt.
It didn't hurt that much.
Yeah.
As being on my back.
So I was holding Yusuke and he had to hold mywhole weight with his arms.
It was so tired.
Tiring.
Yeah.
And my water broke 4 a.m.
And then we changed to the delivery room and Ithink 7 a.m.
Leo was out.
And in this university hospital.
Like in Japan, it's not really common to use thepainless delivery.
Like you have to pay extra or you have to book it.
Some hospitals offer it.
But that specific hospital, not really.
So I gave a natural birth.
And as I mentioned, I didn't understand a lot.
And then I told Yusuke, I don't want to cut likeA, C, S, D, E.
Like the cut down there to make open.
And then I told Yusuke, I don't want that.
And I think they translated to Yusuke that.
Wow.
All right, sorry.
Is it still good?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then they translated to Yusuke that the babyis almost out.
But it's too tight.
So they need to cut.
And then Yusuke translated to me, they need tocut.
And I was in the final part of pushing.
And I didn't care.
I just wanted it to be done.
So I was like, I don't care.
Like do whatever.
And then they cut.
And I breathed out or something.
And then Leo came out.
He was born.
And then I remember that I had so many points Iwanted to do.
Like I wanted to do skin to skin.
I didn't want that they cut me.
I wanted to immediately breastfeed.
And they followed nothing of this what I wanted.
Because they wanted to be safe.
They wanted to check the baby, which makes sense.
But as a first time mom with the dream, blah,blah, blah.
It was really like afterwards I was reallystruggling with these things.
Yeah.
Yeah, but it's okay.
Because then after that they made me get up to goto pee.
Because once I peed, I could go to the normalroom.
Which was a four bedroom room with three otherladies and their baby.
And as soon as I'm in this room, Yusuke had to gohome.
And I couldn't see him for one week.
So imagine I was in a Japanese hospital withoutspeaking the language.
And behind a little curtain for like a week.
15:00
And I really struggled with breastfeeding.
Because my nipples weren't that good.
But I watched YouTube and everything.
And I felt bad.
I felt really bad.
I was a bit traumatized during that time.
And I cried a lot.
And I wasn't allowed to talk on the phone.
Because I was in a room with other ladies.
And then before going home, Leo was like tooyellow.
So I couldn't take him home with me.
And that also gave me a trauma.
Because I can't be separated from my baby.
Yeah, I think he stayed alone one night, right?
You came back and then we didn't have baby.
No.
And then I produced so much milk.
And my breasts were exploding.
And I was so strict.
Like I only wanted breast milk from my baby.
I thought everything else is bad.
And then they told me I don't need to bring milk.
I'm like, yeah, but what are you going to givehim?
Formula? I don't want that.
Like I was really, I was crazy.
And then, yeah.
But then it was so bad that we went to thehospital.
And then I could breastfeed him.
Which was nice.
Yeah, and this was the birth of our first son.
The good thing is Yusuke was always 100% behindme.
And he tried to support me as much as we can.
And we talked many, many, many, many, many timesabout this experience.
And then when I fell pregnant again,
I told him I can't go to a big universityhospital.
There is no way.
I need to heal this trauma.
I need to go to a clinic where you are allowed.
Where Leo is allowed to come to visit.
Where they listen to me, what I want to do.
It's obviously like this corona and
everything for the first time and in the othercountry.
Everything mixed.
Not knowing the language.
Not knowing the language caused this trauma.
It's nothing like for the hospital side andnothing, you know.
No one's fault.
Yeah, obviously.
It was my experience.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And also a completely different culture.
Because I used to work in hospital in Switzerland.
I saw many births.
And I knew how it works in Switzerland.
So I was always comparing.
Yeah.
And then it made me feel like such a failure as amom.
Because, for example, in Switzerland, if the babyis yellow and has this number, you can go home.
Just put them in the sunshine.
But in Japan, they're really, really safe.
So they don't let you go home.
Yeah.
So I felt like I should fight that I can take thebaby home.
But, you know, it just gives you stress.
And then with the second baby, I learned trust theprocess.
Trust the doctors.
Listen to your guts.
If the doctor says something and you really don'tthink it's right, of course, speak up.
But otherwise, they know what they're doing.
And then Yusuke was so nice that he helped me finda really, really, really amazing clinic.
I think it's one of the best in Japan.
Yeah, it's Ikurio in Nakameguro.
18:02
I can't say that here because I really don't know.
OK.
It's one of the more expensive one.
But for me, again, I had the high blood pressure.
Like the pregnancy was hard, but they checked melike really thoroughly.
And I felt in really good hands.
And then, yeah, the birth started that I felt likeI have contraction.
So we went to the clinic.
But then they told us it's...
It wasn't contraction.
It's like false alarm.
Yeah.
But then they checked my blood pressure.
And they were like, oops, it's a bit high.
Maybe you should wait.
Then you get worse, like your headache.
And I think you couldn't stand.
Then they checked the blood pressure and theydecided emergency C-section.
Yeah, I don't really remember much.
And we were in the room and waiting and we canplay music.
We choose code play.
Yeah, and I remember I had to wear the tights,like the pressure tights.
Yeah.
And I remember I needed to throw up.
Or like, I don't know, I was so bad.
And then I remember that the doctor came and hehad really funny eyebrows.
But his face was so calm.
And how he talked to me, I was immediately calm.
Like he made...I trusted him with my whole life.
I think they speak English, too, a bit.
I think they spoke Japanese, but I understoodbetter by them.
Your Japanese improved by then.
Somehow, I felt...Maybe I don't know what theysaid, but I was calm.
And I remember that they said they bring me now tothe operation room.
And I think I didn't even look at you or sayanything to you.
No, you were just like...Went to the other roomand was like...
And you had to wait behind the curtain.
Yeah.
No, I mean different room.
Oh, OK.
Where we were before.
Oh, so?
Yeah.
Yeah, because I know the blood pressure, likeheartbeat things.
Because I used to work in the hospital.
So I saw that my blood pressure was so high.
And then they put, like, numbed my legs and belly.
And then they changed the table.
And I felt it's so, like, different.
Because in Switzerland, the operation room is sosterile and so different.
And then I was like, oh, my God, what's gonnahappen?
And then I remember when they cut the belly,
my blood pressure dropped, like, massively.
Like it was so low.
And I just remember screaming.
I think in Swiss German, I'm dying here, I'mdying, I'm dying.
And I remember this tiny midwife, like, hitting mycheek.
Yeah.
And then, yukkuri, yukkuri.
I still remember this.
21:01
And then I remember...
Yukkuri what?
I don't know.
And then I remember that Coldplay was singing,
You, you are my universe.
Yeah.
And then I remember that Levy came out.
And the doctor put Levy up like, hello, mommy, I'mhere.
I remember that.
Yeah.
And then I was like...
Like, it was so weird.
Like, all the pressure was out from my stomach.
And I remember they came, they gave me Levy.
And he was completely blue.
And I was like, he's dead, he's dead, he's dead.
In Swiss German, I think.
And then I think they brought him to you.
Yeah.
I saw him in the room.
It was funny experience because the first one,
I was right next to you.
And you were screaming and pushing.
And I thought you're gonna be, like, Dragon Ball Z-ish.
And then second one, like, oh, you go back to theroom.
Wait.
I'm like, so nervous.
Like, I cannot see them and what's gonna happen.
Waiting like 15 minutes, I think.
But it took like ages for me.
Like, I felt like really long time.
And then suddenly baby comes.
I'm like, oh, so it's okay now.
Like, you know, I felt so relieved.
It was, you know, a little bit unexpected.
But overall, really good.
I think Levy was out in like five minutes.
But then the stitching part took like 30 minutesor something.
And I felt really not good during this time.
And I was so bad.
But then I think they brought me Levy back.
Yeah.
And then they brought him.
They put him next to my face.
Yeah.
And I forgot everything.
I was like.
And with Leo, my firstborn, I was too shocked withwhat happened.
So the love wasn't there immediately.
Yeah.
I was looking at him.
I'm like, oh, my God.
This thing just came out of my body.
And it took a few minutes for me to realize.
Okay, you just had a baby.
This is your baby.
And then the love came.
But with Levy, I already experienced how beautifulit is to have a baby.
And then I was immediately in love.
It was immediately like.
And then I don't really remember.
I just remember the first two days were sopainful.
But after it was okay.
Yeah.
And the hospital, the clinic, it's a birth clinic,treated me so well.
The food was amazing.
Yeah.
And Yusuke and Leo could visit me whenever.
And such a different experience.
And I already knew how to breastfeed.
I knew what I want, what I don't want.
And I was so much more chill.
Because with Levy, Leo, I documented every littlething.
How much he pooed, when he pooed, peed, whichbreast he drank.
And it's so stressful.
And with Levy, I knew what to expect.
Yeah.
It was just overall a different experience.
24:02
And it healed me in many, many ways.
And also my parents flew in.
They spent three weeks with us.
It was wonderful.
Yeah.
Amazing.
It was nice.
Actually, when they arrived, it was only me andLeo.
Yeah.
Five, six days, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And we just chilled at home.
Yeah.
You know, like, nice time.
Parents enrolled.
But they really wanted to see you.
So, I don't know.
Like, for me, I don't really remember a lot.
What happened actually giving birth.
Because maybe I wasn't really there.
Like, when you are in the separate room.
Yeah.
With Levy, you mean?
Yeah.
But how is the difference?
It's like giving natural birth and C-section.
Like, do you...
Like, in terms of, like, doing the actual givingbirth and recovery, maybe?
Yeah, recovery.
I mean, they cut seven layers of your belly.
So, it hurts.
When you get up, it's always you use this muscle.
And it hurts.
You remember that, I guess.
You couldn't lift heavy stuff for a few months orsomething.
And Yosuke kind of mistranslated me with the painkiller situation.
So, I was really, really, really in so much pain.
But after that, it was okay.
No, I think you misunderstood from the midwife.
Not me.
No, like, there was just something weird going on.
Yeah.
But anyway.
I mean, the difference is...
I really struggled to poo after I had Leo.
Because down there, everything was broken.
And with Levi, I didn't have it.
Because it was not broken.
It was just my belly was cut.
And pushing was a bit hard.
So, in that case, like, sitting down there, it'snicer.
But with Leo, my belly wasn't cut.
So, getting up, getting down was easy.
But sitting was really uncomfortable.
Because they cut down there.
So, I couldn't sit.
But I think because mentally, I was much in abetter position after I had Levi.
I felt like the healing process was easier andfaster after Levi.
I think for me, personally, it didn't depend onnatural or C-section.
It's just mentally.
Because it was just this corona situation wasinsane.
Next level.
And language barrier.
Yeah.
So, I think physically, maybe it was faster.
27:00
Because I never experienced how it feels like toget milk in your breasts.
And, I mean, pushing out a human.
Having a human.
Taking care of it 24-7.
It was new.
Yeah, I think that's the biggest fear.
That if your first time...
Even though you talk with other moms.
And, you know, you know kind of like...
What to expect.
But it's still different.
Still like, you know.
Yeah.
But with Leo, the first one.
It took me one year to say.
No, I think a bit longer.
Okay, I want another baby.
With Levi, after three weeks, I was like, you justgotta go.
Oh my god, yeah.
But he was traumatized.
He was like, no, I need more time.
We don't talk about the pregnancy.
No.
But it was a lot of drama.
Yeah, we can talk about it later.
Yeah.
I also learned that giving birth in Japan isreally safe.
Also the...
Okay, that's pregnancy related.
But the check-up is very...
It's much more than I know what they do inSwitzerland.
If you can trust the doctors and you feel you'rein good hands,
it should be smooth.
I think this bigger hospital had a good point too.
They have many people.
Their decision is really clear and fast, quick.
So that's also giving me as a husband a bit ofrelief.
Because if you go to a smaller hospital or anindividual hospital,
I'm not saying that's bad.
But because bigger hospital took care of morecases,
so their reaction would be quicker.
Yeah, 100%.
But then also, as a mom, what do you need?
And I realized for me personally,
it's really important to get emotional support,
to get these little things around that I need.
Yeah, Ikurio had everything I needed.
So it was really great experience for me,
in case I can say that having an emergencydetection.
As a husband, mentally prepare that you have tothink your wife is another person.
So no matter what happens, you just support.
Don't worry about what she said.
Yeah, forget about it.
And how she, her attitude and anything.
Because I offered everything I can do.
And you were like, no, no, water.
And no, water.
Just like, okay, water, server, water.
30:00
I need more water. Okay.
Yeah, because contraction, this pain is nextlevel.
And your body, but also that amazed me so much
because my body knew what to do.
And I knew how to breathe.
And I didn't understand what they said.
I just listened simply to my body.
And I was trying to stay calm breathing.
And then when I said, I can't do anymore.
I can't do anymore.
Then Yusuke told me, yeah, he's almost out.
It's the end.
Like if you really reach this point.
And then it was the end.
And I remember he came out.
Our body is amazing.
And luckily I did push-ups every day.
Yeah, that's a really big advice.
Yeah, totally.
Do the push-ups like a few months.
Then you're prepared that your wife.
Yeah.
Overall, I would say I would do it again.
Really?
That's the biggest surprise.
Would you do it again?
Yeah.
I mean, you don't have to do anything.
You just give me water.
I do water serving.
Maybe next time I have better water servingsystem.
Please.
Okay.
Thank you so much for listening.
And if you are curious about pregnancy in Japan.
I'm really like if I love to talk about it.
I can do it.
Yeah.
If you have any questions, please DM us.
And, you know, whatever.
We have Instagram, TikTok and whatever.
Yeah.
All right.
Thank you.
See you next time.
Bye-bye.
Ciao.
