オープニングとCDP Technologiesの紹介
Hello everyone, welcome to FA Radio. I am Chris.Let me introduce my podcast again.
FA Radio is a podcast to talk so many differenttypes of topics about automations and somesoftware solutions.
What is our pressure is to help all the peoplethat will get the update information about thefactory automations for all this stuff.
This is also a special corner that I, Chris, willinvite so many different areas of a manufactureror software vendor to have a collaboration to letthem to talk about their solutions.
And this time, I am very happy that I invited aguy from CTP Technologies, Judy. So, hello, Judy.
Hi.
Okay, could you just introduce yourself?
Yes, so, I am Yuri Dolomeso and I am the CTO of CTP Technologies.
And I have been working here for like 14 years.
My background before that was actually microchipdesign.
So, for 12 years before I joined this company andstarted this kind of control platform development.
That is short my background.
Okay, so, before we start, I would like to justhave a talk through story that how can I meetJudy.
Actually, I don't remember or not, but sometime, Ithink 3-4 years before that, I created a video onLinkedIn or some stuff that we actually meet onLinkedIn.
At that time, you told me that, hey, we have asolution that you can control the train.
At that time, I think, I forgot to control somestuff. You told me, please try it.
And then I pinged you that, okay, so, please showme your solution.
And then, I think, this is the start point. I don't know if you remember or not.
Yeah, it was a long time ago.
And that time, I read your ICO website.
And I noticed a very interesting solution and it'sdifferent, totally different between that I workedbefore.
And I would like to tell the listener, I have a PLC background.
Actually, I started to use Linux, I think, 5 yearsbefore.
Just even that time, I don't know how to type anycommands before.
And that's also my first time to see this type ofsolution that can run as cross-platform.
It's not like just like code is.
RVP or Factory Automation, when they're talkingabout cross-platform, they're talking about codeis.
But CDB Studio is also a very great technology.
They also have a very great cross-platform.
So, before that, could you introduce, actually,your company first, CDB Technology.
What is this company and what is the pressure andwhat kind of products that you are making?
Yes. So, the company, we actually, the softwareplatform that we are developing and providing
actually started a long, long time before thecompany was formed.
And it grew out of necessity in actually buildingreal-time distributed control systems
for solutions like cranes and winches and thingslike that.
And it was actually initially part of a solutionprovider, this development.
So, they actually built solutions, control systemsfor cranes and winches and such.
That were even compensated.
But these are like, there are two very differenttasks.
One is to create solutions for customers.
And the other is to actually develop theframework.
So, there are competing goals.
So, it was better to kind of spin out the coreplatform development out of the solutions.
So, they can be independent on their own.
And then they started to also sell this platformto other customers.
So, this is basically now one of our products,this platform itself.
We also have an IDE that goes along with theplatform that makes the use easier for end users.
Because it used to be in the very beginning just C++ and XML and lots of PDF manuals how to develop.
So, it started as a C++ development environmentfor people who were able to actually write C++.
But now it's more generic and we have tried toreduce the threshold.
So, that you don't actually have to know anythingabout C++ to develop control systems.
So, that is the kind of main goal.
But there are other products also like we nowprovide secure Linux for our customers.
We have a dedicated version of the platform forpurely HMI clients.
Who don't want to do much on the control system orC++ side at all.
But just want to attach better HMIs to theirexisting control systems.
Okay, I get it. I think it's in your website thatyou...
Yes.
The CDB technology, they introduced a framework.It's called CDB framework.
So, I also have a look inside that.
They have some different core part of the runtime.
They have IDE and also the HMI part.
So, that's why...
For example, the IDE part that you told me thatyou hide all the...
You can hide all the difficult stuff.
For example, you don't need to...
Even me, I can always see purpose, be honest.
But inside, you also have some graphic languageyou can support that no need to use to see purposeor something, right?
Is it correct?
Yes.
So, this is part of this kind of shroud that wepull in front of people.
Because in the bottom, yes, there is like a...
Actually, a QMake project and some configurationfile and source files and all the libraries thatwe...
So, basically, it is a pure software project inthe background.
But because our libraries allow people to actuallybuild systems by just actually defining XML files
from existing objects that they have created inthe libraries,
then the IDE actually creates this layer of visualconfiguration language,
which is very similar to block diagram.
There are table views for the project structuresor logic structures that you have also.
And like a built-in plotter, but you can also gointo the code mode and look at the code
and trace and step through the code if that iswhat you want to do.
So, it is like from end to end, the platform fordoing everything in one place,
from HMI to connecting your IO,
writing new blocks, composing from the existinglibrary of what we provide,
just purely no code, writing nothing in code.
So, it is an end-to-end platform.
Okay, thank you.
CDP Studioのアーキテクチャと多言語対応
And I think you show me actually what is this workin the next 20 minutes or something.
So, I will not go very deep on now.
Okay, so you have the IDE.
Then the IDE can program the block diagram.
Then also, if you can, you can also program C++ orPython or even Java or JavaScript,
so many languages.
In my view, because I can program a little bitPython, I use your framework.
It is just like a magic box.
I can choose what kind of magic that I can, whatkind of stick that I can.
I want to use.
Then I can create my application.
For example, for some data logging application,maybe I prefer to use Python.
By the way, people, you see preferences up to me.
Is there something like this?
Or the engineers can choose the tubes what theywant?
It is that, but it is a bit different than youdescribed.
In that sense that in our case, we build theruntime
that people usually think that runs on somecontrol device.
We build this runtime for your application native.
So, you get the native binary.
We have toolkits.
You can download more.
You can choose what you are targeting and buildthe runtime yourself.
Then when you have built a runtime,
which then can be configured basically to do whatyou want to do.
You don't even have to kind of change the binary.
You can just configure the behaviors kind of whatit does.
This binary, this runtime that gets actually runon the target device has a public API.
The other languages come to play as we haveclients
that can connect to this real-time core, thisruntime.
Then you can write your own Python or JavaScriptcode
that binds to values and updates values in thereal-time core.
So, they are basically like side modules.
So, all your IO access that you do in the IDE,
you drag into the no-code canvas and set up yourmodbus
and the IOs that you read and write.
That happens in the real-time core, in thisruntime.
That runtime has the API to then bring your Pythonscript or JavaScript
or whatever you want basically and talk to thisruntime
and do additional things with the data that isavailable from there.
You mean it's separate to the real-timeapplication part and the non-real-time?
Is that something close to separate in two parts?
Is that correct?
You told me that the real-time, the CP, thebinary, I would say,
it will execute the real-time applications insidethe runtime
and then you have something like interface toallow to use the API
to provide the other user Python or JavaScriptaccess.
Yes, yes, yes, exactly.
So, that's what our UI does.
So, if you make a UI application,
either a native UI application or a web UIapplication,
which you do the same way, just dragging stuff inthe designer,
that also connects to the same API.
And the IDE, when you connect to the runningsystem in the IDE
and see all the values and you can plot them, dothings,
that uses the same API again into this runtime
to look at the values and subscribe to valuechanges and set values
and traverse the structure.
And same is available for the historic log data.
It's in the same runtime API.
There is also availability.
You can access through that API
and get the log history of signals that have beenlogged.
Actually, I know the concept
PLC制御とPCベース制御の比較、および実世界での応用
because, actually, this is my first time tounderstanding
clearly about this concept.
And this concept, I think, is totally different tothe PLC
or some, I mean, you also know PLC.
PLC is a very closed system.
Each event, they will not open the API in someway.
They will not know other party system
to access their runtime, for example, to get thevalue or something.
You can also tell them, hey, you can use the MOBAs.
You can use some protocol like this.
But you cannot, for example, you cannot get theCPU loading time
or memory using by just using API program insidethe PLC.
And now I know there is a very open system for theCDP technology.
This is a surprise for me.
So could you ask me something?
I think you also know that PLC is a closed work, aclosed stop in the work.
And you know that our listener, I think, is morethan half.
They use PLC every day.
They also playing very well, but also very painfulfor that.
Could you tell me a little bit?
No.
In my view that CDP technology,
they have an approach to use the PC-based control
more than just using PLC.
Could you tell me a little bit what you'rethinking?
Why we need to?
It will be a future to shift from the PLC controlto the PC-based control by use.
Could you tell me what you're thinking about that?
Yes.
So our approach is that we know that we are not atool for everybody, for sure.
And there are many, many PLC solutions
where something like CDP would be complete overkill.
Because first of all, we are mostly for advanceddistributed real-time control systems,
which kind of is not for everyone, for sure.
Because what you get when you use framework likeours
is that you get this seamless distribution acrossdifferent architectures.
You might have Linux industrial PCs.
You might have Windows-based panels.
And you can basically spread the system.
We treat the system as a whole.
It can be composed of multiple applications, liketens of applications in the network.
And for us, this is one unit.
And all the applications on the background, itbasically composes a whole.
And they can interchange the data seamlesslybetween each other.
So basically, from the developer perspective, thisten different controllers is in one system forthem.
And they can connect the data as they see fitbetween these different applications.
Which is very different from this PLC-basedapproach.
That, okay, I have a PLC and there is a task andit does this thing.
And you usually don't think about it, okay.
But I have tens of these and they intercommunicatebetween each other to achieve a goal.
And this is the bigger goal is what I'm designingas a whole.
Ah, I get it.
So actually, I mean, to answer the question, weare not just asking PC-based or PLC-based.
Actually, CDP technology, this system, technologyis designed for some advantaged users.
They would have some real applications and alsocan have one big control, one big system.
Instead of those sub-controllers, they have theirown tasks.
They all publish and subscribe all the devicesfrom each other in real time or even in non-realtime.
And then to control their own stuff.
So it means that the core, I don't know if it'score or not, the main concept of our CDPtechnology is doing some solution like this.
And the answer is not always, because we haveclients who just run a single controller.
But they are then on this kind of age of PLCusability when they see that, OK, I could do thiswith PLC.
But then I need some third-party historian tostore the fast real-time data for me to have thelogs.
Then I need maybe a third-party anti-swaycontroller from another company because I needanti-sway and that costs a bunch.
And then maybe I need a PC next to the PLC to dosomething third.
And then you are basically ballooning and complicating the system between different vendors.
Instead of something like ours where you have onesolution that actually can flex and you can useopen source code, third-party code.
And you can expand the capability of the frameworkyourself to fit the needs that you have.
So you can achieve your goals maybe in the end, ina more easier and you have a better overview ofwhat you have and how it works.
Because it's integrated into still one system andone umbrella.
One umbrella, I like this word.
OK, so I know that your system, the main core ofthe thinking.
And before we continue to the next topic, couldyou tell me some real applications using the CDPtechnology?
I know because I actually, I need to tell theJapanese listeners that I present CDP technologyfor a presentation before.
I think it's one or two years before.
And I know they have doing some very compact realapplication.
It's a very trustable technology.
So could you explain what kind of real applicationthat is using CDP technology?
Yes, so as I stated earlier, we grew out from asolution company.
And when I started, the whole company was maybe 10-15 people in total.
Really?
Yes, and now the solution part of the company isprobably like 100 people.
100 people?
I would guess.
I might be wrong, but that's about the order ofmagnitude, I think.
And they build this ship tech equipment.
Different kinds, like ship cranes, moon poolsystems, larses, winches, gangways.
The last products now that they are doing are pureelectric cranes and gangways.
So these are heat compensated because when you'reon a ship and you are, the ship is going toservice a windmill somewhere.
And needs to do a person transfer from the shiptech to the windmill.
And there are harsh sea conditions.
Then when you put out the gangway tip onto therail on the windmill, you need to compensate themovement for the sea.
So the tip would stay in place.
So these are like this fast real-time heat compensated in multiple access control systems that theydeveloped using our platform.
And same for cranes.
And what about like ship to ship transfer?
Then you need to kind of lift over a positioningunit to the other ship because then you have twoships to kind of compensate for.
Okay, so you mean maritime area that is using theCDP technology in different types of shipapplications.
And could you tell which country that is usingyour application is the main customer?
Just countries, okay.
I think our biggest customers are in Norway.
But we have customers in all of Europe.
Sorry, I forgot to tell all this CDP technology isthe Norway company.
But this guy is not in Norway.
Where are you now?
I'm in Estonia.
So we have a development hub in Estonia that wasestablished 14 years ago when I started.
So I was one of the part of the establishing groupof people.
But we also have multiple offices in Norway.
So we are a few people but we are spread acrossmany many different locations.
I know that all your main equipment is in youroffice now, right?
It's not in Norway, is it correct?
We are like 50-50.
Half of the employees are in Estonia and half arein Norway.
Okay, thank you.
産業用セキュアOS「CDP Linux」
And I also wanted to visit him but it's not easyto go to his country.
I don't get a chance to go there.
Okay, so now we know that what is CDP technology.
Then we know the background and the main core.
We know that there is a main customer that isusing that.
So, okay.
So the next question is...
I would like to...
When do you need to ring us to go inside the CDPworks?
And as I mentioned before, you have the IDE, youhave the runtime, you have the touch panel.
And also you have a part called...
Especially the new part that I saw last week iscalled CDP Linux.
What is that?
So, this again grew out from the parent company.
And also from feedback from customers.
Because if you go to the regular PLC users andtell them, okay, there is this awesome developmentplatform.
And basically there is no code and you can makecontrol systems.
And it's really easy.
They look at it and agree, okay, it's really easy.
But then they tell you that the most difficultpart was to actually get the Linux properly set upon the industrial PC.
It's not the framework, it's not the platform, it's not the complexity of programming.
It's actually installing Linux properly.
On an industrial PC.
And when I mean properly, in this last couple ofyears, the security demands for these kinds of...
At least marine systems have gone up quite a bit.
So, the installation actually needs to be secure.
There is so many things you actually need to setup correctly to have a secure Linux system.
And this is a complex task.
So, what we have done is we have made our ownLinux distro, basically.
That makes this process of setting up a Linuxcontroller that is secure.
With firewalls, with all the necessary thingsopened up that need to be opened up for the systemand everything else closed down.
It's easier for people.
So, there is a graphical installer and graphicalconfiguration user interface.
Even web-based graphical configuration userinterface that you can enable.
That allows you to actually set up and configurethe controller and install the image.
Because that is the hardest step.
So, you don't need the program.
It's because the marine time, they need to have amore security OS that's running on their ship.
So, that's why CDP technology is developed.
CDP Linux is based on Yocto.
I think it's Yocto, right?
Yes, it is. It's Yocto Linux.
So, for this OS, I would say...
Because I also see your website that it's ready touse in industry configurations or it's a combinedOS image.
Is it free? Or do you need to charge?
If only.
Actually, it's currently only for customers and it's not free.
Because as it turns out, it's actually quite a lotof work to maintain a Linux distro and apply thesecurity patches and updates and make it easy.
So, sadly, no, it's not free.
So, because I'm also using Linux for HPC, forexample, in my home lab, I have Phoenix Contactthere.
Actually, what is the difference between, forexample, if I use your CDP Linux OS or just like apure Ubuntu or Red Hat?
What is the difference between when I choose yourOS?
I guess the difference is that we have tried tomake the setup process as simple as possible forthe end users.
So, you have very clear choices with descriptionsof what are the consequences of the choices.
So, when you go through this list on installation,what you're enabling and what you're not.
And there is also a lot of automation forspecifically our tools and our platform that willautomatically...
We can generate this security configuration, whatneeds to be open and for the system to actuallywork.
So, we automate part of the process to run oursystems on the Linux better.
So, if I use a pure Ubuntu or something, I need todo all this terrible stuff by myself, is itcorrect?
Yes, set up the firewalls and USB card, app armor.
There is so many things that you have to getright.
And you might forget some of those if you don't dothis daily.
That is the main problem.
It's just like even knowing that you have to do itmaybe for some people.
If you haven't used Linux much, I'm sure peoplewill forget to do some things and leave some holesin the envelope.
So, it means that, for example, if I am amanufacturer in the marina, for building the marina or something.
So, it still means if I use the OS that at least Ican fit in the minimum standards of IEC 62443something?
Yes, actually, that is the idea, yes.
And we actually, in our security data sheet, wehave a manual.
We actually list all the things that you have toaccount for to meet the minimum level 1requirements.
I also see this before.
This is all with the old IEC standard.
Why you need to do this because of this?
I never see this list for other manufacturersbefore.
Yes, this was a lot of work to actually puttogether.
So, it's actually in our documentation and it'sworth something.
Even if it's not for your purposes, just having achecklist of what you need to actually do andthink about is worth quite a bit.
So, it means that for the marina, for example, aboy's ship.
Actually, before you deliver your ship to thecustomer or something, you need to provide allthis checklist, something for that, to prove yoursystem is in security.
Is it correct?
Actually, there is a security review.
There is a very likely DNV in Norway will gothrough the system and ask lots of complicatedquestions to make sure that it is secure.
So, if we use the CDP, at least we can decrease somany ping-pong like this.
All this stuff is pre-installed, it's pre-configured. Is it correct?
You can configure and change it yourself, ofcourse.
But the checklist is there to go through andchoose how you want to set up your system and whatyou want to enable and what you want to disable,what you need and what you don't need.
You might not need, for example, HDMI, you mightnot need screens.
So, you might disable those, not configure at all.
The idea is that basically then you can save theconfiguration that you do for the controller onthe same USB stick where the installer is and thenyou can plug it into the next controller and justheadlessly install it with the way you configuredit for the first one.
So, you can repeat the configuration afterwardswithout you doing anything.
So, you can have repeat configurations of it.
Actually, I also tried to just upgrade HPC fromone version to a new version. I spent more thanhalf a day to do that.
It did work.
It prepares OS for you and it works in a securestandard and no need to have ping-pong orsomething that vibrates.
OK, so I know that CDP is Linux because I see yourwebsite has a new item called CDP Linux. I wouldlike to ask you now.
真のハードウェア非依存性とクロスプラットフォーム展開
OK, so I think the CDP Linux part is OK.
So, will you tell me a little bit more about yourruntime?
OK, so if I have a Linux PC, I think I can run theCDP such.
OK, what kind of platform your runtime can executeor can put your penform on the system?
Yes, so in very simple terms, it's Linux-basedcontrollers, both ARM and x86 architectures andWindows machines x86.
So, for those, we have toolkits.
This is important because we do build the binariesfor the application.
We cross-build them, actually.
If you are on a Windows PC with the IDE and youwant to use a Raspberry Pi or some Linux ARMcontroller or some Linux x86 controller,
then we cross-compile the binary for that specifictarget so you get the correct runtime for thetargeted architecture that you want to deploy on.
But I have a question.
For example, if I try to use your platform before.
So, for example, I know it's not 100% combative.
For example, I create an application.
It's used, for example, it's used a Raspberry Pibefore.
So, if I like to change the hardware to other toolkits, other toolkits or hardware.
So, do I need to do some modification in theprogram or I can just change the toolkits?
You can just change the toolkits.
So, basically, when you have a system, you have alist of applications.
Each application has selected the toolkit that itshould use for deployment.
You can just switch to some other toolkit.
The same application will be built for differenthardware and deployed to a different target and itwill run there.
So, you could go from running your application onWindows for testing and then change the toolkit toLinux x86 and run it on some server
or change it to a Raspberry Pi toolkit and run iton a Raspberry Pi.
The application doesn't change. The configurationof the application doesn't change.
The toolkit builds a different binary.
Before that, I would like to say that I think thisis very, very fantastic.
Why? Because I use...
Okay, I'll be honest to say, I use Codesys.
Actually, I like Codesys and also I hate Codesysbecause when I cross from one hardware to otherhardware,
actually, in some time, I need to face more than100 errors just because I shift the platform.
I shift from one hardware to one other platform.
Sometimes I think that is it really cross-platformor something?
Because I know CDP structure. I know CDPtechnology.
I know that when I can just change the toolkitthat's provided by CDP technology,
actually, you can download it in IDE and make achecklist for what kind of a toolkit that you needto download.
Then you can just set it up and then you can justchange your binary,
compile your binary that is fit to your toolkit.
You don't need to change a program to care thelibraries work or not or something.
I think it's very grateful for me.
It is really good for a developer not to worryabout where this software will run.
The truth is that often, at least in most of ourclient cases, they start the project before theyhave the hardware.
So they will always run the system locally before.
For sure, you don't want to change the programwhen you get the hardware.
It might be fully developed by the time.
In some cases, our parent company has done projectwhere they have built both the physics simulatorand the control system in parallel,
running tests without the hardware in the loop.
Then as the hardware comes, they connect it intothe loop.
The system is completed before the hardware isactually available to install the control systemon.
Then you just install it to a different target andit works.
It is what you want.
That is what I think is the real hardware andhardware independent.
All the platforms know that the factory automationwork is set.
Our platform is hardware independent.
But I would say no.
If you wanted, I would ask them.
Some people asked me.
They told me that their platform is hardwareindependent.
I told them, please go to CDP technology anddownload their runtime.
Try it one time.
They have real hardware independent.
You can change even from Windows to Linux.
No need to change the program.
Nothing.
I favor their system like this.
Before that, I would like to talk about thetoolkit.
Toolkit is my work.
It is a tool to allow you to depend on a target.
Then CDP technology will provide tools for you tocombine the project to the primary file that isfixed to the hardware.
For example, I don't know if I can say it here.
I think they like WAGO.
They have two or three types of different toolkitsfor WAGO.
They have CC100.
I think they have the PFC series for the firstgeneration and second generation.
They can run their runtime on WAGO perfectly.
They access the IOs.
I know some guys in WAGO Japan.
They don't know that they know a common.
They access their bus, but not by using cookies.
Could you tell me about that?
Yes.
What can I say?
We do have really good cooperation with WAGONorway.
They actually do test our new toolkits also.
They are very good at creating new hardware andnew toolkit versions.
It is work to keep up.
We are actually currently in a release cycle.
The new version is coming up in a couple of weeks.
We found out that the newest image that WAGOreleased doesn't work.
Because they have made a new image and it iscompletely new.
We need to create a new toolkit for the new image.
It is so different.
The upside is that we have really good cooperationwith WAGO.
Also other vendors.
We are also working very closely now with WadeMiller to support their new Linux controllers.
And their I.O. also natively.
So you could deploy the application into a WadeMiller new controller.
And it could access the I.O. locally on thecontroller.
Sometimes I think, because I know that the CDPtechnology, their runtime, they will support.
They will support Mobus.
They will support CAN.
I think they will support OPC UA.
They will support MQTT.
I know that, I will not say this is a weakness.
I will just say they will not support for exampleEtherCAT or EtherIP or Boolean in their runtime.
In my view, because their hardware, their runtimecan access their hardware directly.
Maybe that's the reason that, I would say, theymake some, they are not used to be in I.O.
Very previously or something.
They just try to, I would say, to make one systemthat you can, for example, use WAGO.
I can directly access the I.O. in their bus.
So it means that I don't need to use any fieldbusor something.
I don't, maybe, is it the reason that why, I don'tknow.
There are good uses of fieldbuses when you do haveexisting PLCs that you want to integrate.
Then either moldbus or OPC UA is a good solution.
For example, for those who only want to maybe freshen up the UI.
They want a cool looking modern UI.
They want to do their own themes or whatever.
Then this is a pretty good fit.
They have a system that works.
They just want to UI refresher.
Then the fieldbus is like unescapable.
Ah, OK, I get it.
And they also have REST API.
They also support more than API like REST API orHTTP requests.
Yeah, REST API.
They will support this type of modern protocols.
And I think it's also enough for me.
But I don't know if it's for some customers.
They will always explain.
Hey, why you don't have this idea?
Why you don't have that idea?
They always say like that.
That's why I think that for me, they will not justhave...
Why I think I will have collaborations with CTPtechnology is not because just like this.
They also have so many great stuff I would like toexplain here.
複数コントローラーの一括デプロイとデータロギング・HMI機能
For example, at this point.
I use...
How to say?
I use...
Before I also have a big system.
There are so many controllers.
What I need to do that?
I need to connect to each controller.
I should download it every time.
I have...
Before I make a web...
Customer.
I don't know, 5 or 6 years before.
It's a plan.
They have a trendy controller.
I need to download 20 times.
But CTP is a very great function.
They allow you to deploy the system that you like.
How to say?
They can still scan all the system.
All the CT runtime in the network.
And then you can choose which system they wouldlike to download.
Then you can...
For this system, I would like to just compare.
I just download.
No need to update.
You can choose.
I think this is a great feature, right?
Yes, because...
As I said, we treat the whole system as a whole.
So if your control system has 20 controllers...
Then 20 applications running on 20 differentcontrollers.
And this system does something as a whole.
Then we treat it as a whole.
So you create a system with 20 applications.
And then you can deploy it in one go.
And there are even more...
There are funnier things that you can do.
For example, if you have the list of applications...
You can actually drag some of the functionalityfrom one application to another application.
Or things like that.
You can just move things around where things run.
Because for us, it doesn't matter.
It's just configuration and connections.
Because the backplane connects all theapplications into one whole.
And all this stuff is just done by their IDE.
There's no need for any different configurator ordifferent software.
It's all done by this IDE called CV Stagio.
And not just for this type of development.
For example, they analyze.
They also deploy a very great...
In my view, I use their...
Lifetime monitoring.
It's a very great system.
Could you explain a little bit more about how toanalyze or test by using your runtime?
You mean the logger functionality in AnalyzeMode?
Yes.
So yes, we have our own logger component.
That you can add to your system in someapplication.
And there are different backends to the logger.
So you could choose the logger to log to a comma-separated file.
If you are really brave and don't have much data.
It is a use case for some.
If you have low data bandwidth and you want acomma-separated file as a result.
We have our own compact data store based on SQLite.
Which is catered for really fast logging.
But also accessing data where you might look atreally large windows in one go.
Like a month or two months of history.
And this needs to work really fast.
Because you don't want to wait half a minute forthe view.
So this data format is tailored for really fastdata retrieval.
Even for really large windows.
Time windows spans over a vast history.
And now we are also adding in the upcoming releasea timescale.
And we have had influx for some time already.
So there are different backends where you canchoose to log.
So it can be an actual proper SQL Postgres serverin the case of timescale.
In the upcoming release.
Or a local SQLite database that has our fastcompression, fast fetch format.
Okay, thank you.
And you also have this HMI.
So for HMI, I also think it's a fantasticfunction.
You can have web features.
I mean, you have a web server feature that canjust enter the IP, the URL.
Then you can access the HMI in a Chrome orFirefox.
And also you can have a Windows application.
For example, I built an application by using C++in a Raspberry Pi.
Then when the Raspberry Pi start up.
It just directly to the CDP runtime.
The HMI directly just display full screen on theRaspberry Pi.
I was not saying Windows-based.
It will be application-based.
Also have a web-based.
You have both.
And all the tag connections are very easy.
You can just drop from your program or something.
Even from other runtime, right?
You drop all the variables from different runtimeinto one HMI.
Is it correct?
Yes.
Can you explain to me some of the functions aboutthat?
What is the concept of your HMI?
So yes, our HMI.
How to put it?
So there are multiple options when you're makingan HMI in Studio.
First of all, you have the native UI.
Where we actually build a native binary for thespecific target.
And then it runs as a binary application anddisplays a UI.
But you can also add a web UI view to this nativeapplication.
Then the application will actually serve the sameUI as a web UI.
So you can use both the native application.
But you can access the same interface through webalso.
So it's like a dual interface kind of.
And then you can also just add only a webinterface to some existing control applications.
The way you design the HMI is the same in allcases.
So there is a drag and drop.
We have lots of widgets.
You compose the user interface from existingwidgets.
In theory, you can make custom ones using C++ andQML.
But mostly it's possible to compose really complexthings from existing widgets.
And having fun with themes and how you canactually theme existing widgets to show somethingthan it actually is.
For example, if you think about the slider that isa knob on a rail.
We use the same concept, actually the same widgetto display a thruster control.
It's visually just different.
But in theory, there is a rail of the thrusterview.
And there is a position of where the thruster is.
It's actually a slider.
The theme is different.
So there are these base widgets that are usedmultiple times for different tasks.
Just themed differently to do a different thing orpresent a different concept.
And then these widgets can connect to basicallyany application in the system.
By just defining the path of the value that youwant to display your control.
And this goes through the same public API that wetalked about earlier.
And this public API, of course, supports login andsecurity and access control.
Which you can configure.
It's by default off to make the initial stepdeveloping easier.
But you can add users, add access controls tousers' rights.
Basically per structure unit and per value if itcan be read or written or seen by that user group.
I get it.
And then you can automatically get the login onthe user interface when you have enabled security.
CDP Studioの利用開始方法とライセンス体系
OK.
So we talked about your ID.
We talked about your runtime.
So, next question.
How can I start?
How can I start if I want to start using it?
What?
If I want to start, would I have to try yourtechnology?
How can I start it?
How can I start it?
It's really easy.
Just go on our website.
And you can download a free trial.
That is 30 days for everyone.
You get the full functionality of the tool for 30days.
If you want it for non-commercial use, so hobbyproject, home improvement, whatever,
then you can actually request a non-commerciallicense.
The caveat with the non-commercial license is thatby default your applications will run for onehour.
And then you have to restart them.
You can get free runtime licenses also.
But we expect you to show us your project that youare doing.
So put it up in GitHub, a public repository.
Show us what project you are doing that reallywants to run for multiple hours.
You have some home control system that you want torun.
Put it up somewhere.
Send us the link.
We look at the code and give you a runtime for it.
For free.
Then it will run basically forever.
So for commercial customers, the runtimes arefree.
And they basically will just get them as theylicense their applications.
So what do you mean that I just need a Windows PCor even a Raspberry Pi that I can start to use totry your solution?
Yes, basically.
Any other questions for your, I don't know, isthat possible to say here, for your businessmodel?
Because you told me that if I have a non-commercial license, it means after the project Idownload to the controller.
Then I have one hour to test it.
But it means that if I have a commercial license,that means the runtime will run forever, correct?
Yes, of course.
It depends on my PC or my controller.
For example, I don't understand a bit about thelicense or how it works.
So basically the binary, the runtime that youdeploy, it checks a local file system for alicense file.
If it doesn't find the license file, it will runfor an hour and exit.
You can start it up again.
Then it will run again for an hour if it doesn'tsee the license file in the system it exits.
So when you request a license and we grant you aruntime license, and you click license in the IDfor the application,
we deploy the license file next to the applicationin the license folder.
So then the application sees, ah, there's alicense.
It checks if the license is valid for the hardwareit's running on.
And then it will not exit after an hour.
So there is a separate file.
In the ID, actually, I don't know if it's the IDor not.
My ID is a commercial license ID that every timewhen I download the project to the runtime,
actually, a new license file will be refreshedinside your runtime.
You see something like this.
A new license file will be also downloaded insidethe runtime.
Then the runtime will be checking if this licensefile is correct or not.
Yes, yes, yes.
So is that mean that if I have one commerciallicense, so maybe in one month I can refresh andname the device is it correct?
It's something like this.
The runtime license is for that specific hardwarewhere you licensed the application.
So it will run only on that machine.
For example, if my company don't use CC100, so Ican just, if I am a developer,
I can just buy a CC100 two-kit license from CBTechnology.
For example, one month or two months, then I canrefresh all my Wago CC100.
Is that correct? Is my concept correct?
So yes, so basically you have to, the minimumsubscription time for the developer seat is oneyear.
But basically, yes, if you buy the developerlicense and do your system and do as many Wago CC100 as you want during the year,
then they will keep working afterwards, even ifyou don't have a license, of course.
So the ID license is basically a developer-basedlicense.
So the license says that you can run thedevelopment environment.
The runtimes are free and then those commercialcustomers can just get as many.
There are no tag limits. There are no limits onhow many applications you can create and license.
It's just like one per developer seat license.
It's a very simple model in reality.
Ah, I guess what it means is that after theruntime is installed in my device,
a license, a commercial license, if I don't wantit, I don't need to touch it.
So I just keep it here. I don't need to do this.
It's very interesting business model for me.
Okay, so it also talks about the license.
And then could you have you a chance to let all mylisteners to see your solution?
IDEのデモンストレーションとAIアシスタント機能
Yeah, sure.
Okay, so you need some time to prepare that.
So I will wait you and this time I will just talksomething. Don't worry. Just take your time.
So as I mentioned before that...
Oh, come on.
Okay, so I hope all the people can see the screen.
I'm sure you should. Yeah.
It's a CDP Stagio project.
Yes, so the IDE starts up quite snappily.
It didn't take much time.
So and this is the IDE part of the system.
And we do have like a project pane to create andopen new projects.
We have lots of example projects that you can openand view how they are made.
And tutorials to go through.
These are like step by step instructions how tocreate something specific.
And these are like different modes that you can bein the IDE.
So this was the welcome mode.
There is also code mode for coding.
And this is the graphical development, theconfigure mode, which has multiple views.
This is the no code block diagram view where youcan add blocks and connect things together.
Depending on what you want to add.
And also a table view.
Could you go back a little bit your block view?
I think I find it very interesting for your block.
It can be UN based to be triggered by UN or Cyclicyou can choose, right?
Because in PLC, most of these applications onlyrun in Cyclic.
It's running forever from start to end.
And then I know there's some manufacturer PLCcomputers back here.
They also provide UN based, but somebody shouldknow that.
That's also why I asked a very strange question toJudy.
I think two years before.
Is your system support IEC 61499 or something?
Do you remember that?
Yes.
It's very similar.
This is the concept.
Yes, it's actually inspired by the standard.
So most of the default blocks have a runningfrequency that are based on components.
So these are like tasks in PLC sense that theyhave their own thread and Cyclic working frequencywhen it runs.
And you can build Cyclic control systems.
There are lots of maybe familiar operators from PLC world in the automation library.
Like hands or triggers, timers, PIDs, all sortsof.
But then, as you mentioned, there is the sequencerlibrary, which has a basic block.
Which is basically the basic function blocks fromthis 61499 standard.
Where you can do this ECC state machine, addoperators here, connect them to be triggered, addconditions to the transitions.
So you can build a state machine with transitionsand logic to execute.
And also, of course, input events and outputevents that would trigger and only trigger thetransition on the event.
So you can build the state machines.
And here, this by default is purely event driven.
So it's executed when it receives an event.
But on extension to the standard, we also addedthe Cyclic support here.
So you could run it either if event comes or whenthe parent cycle arrives.
So you can build Cyclic state machines alsobecause you already have a very nice state machineeditor.
So why not allow building state machines the sameway?
OK, thank you. So this is why I need to mentionhere.
And listen, if they play PLC, they know there'sonly use the PLC as a Cyclic only.
So I'd like to show them that CDP technology,their runtime, also provide an event-based or evenboth.
Yeah, OK. So please call me to show me your...
So I will do something really quick to show a no-code.
So I will add a sign generator and an addoperator.
And I will connect this up and add a constantvalue to it.
So basically, the adder adds the sign output witha constant value.
And basically, then you can run and connect thisby default build, say, for the toolkit that I haveselected for the application.
I have an 80 toolkit. I have only one developmentin addition that I have installed.
But now the application is actually running. So it's connected and running.
And you can see the live values.
And you can go and add this to a plot.
And you can go to the analyze mode for theplotting.
And you can see the live value being plotted forthe sign output.
And you can change, for example, the runningfrequency of the sign component to 5 hertz insteadof 100.
And then you can see that it runs slower andproduces a value 5 times a second.
I would like to mention one point here.
All this, for example, you see, Judith, youchanged the block frequency to be a little bitslow, right?
And you don't need to provide a download operationor something.
You see what you do? You just go to the inputfield and add a new value.
Yes.
It's very painful. We need to go to the onlineedit mode.
We need to add a new value. We need to go on,download again.
And we don't need to do anything in the IDE.
Yes. And for simple things like scaling inputs onIEO and things,
all the operators that we have can be added duringruntime also.
For example, if you want to do something inaddition to what we are doing here,
like add another one to this output,
then you can basically build logic also during therunning application.
This is typically used for adjusting the IEO withscaling and things like that or invertingsomething that's wrong.
You need to see what's going on.
So you see what's going to happen.
It's very great. No need to go online, edit andthen download.
It's a great application. And you see, Judithshowed us the pop, the analyzing view.
The pop is very smooth.
That's why I think they're analyzing and testingit very grateful.
Yes.
I think you also have new features released onlast year is the AI assistant for the IDE.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
And when you stop it, you see actually what youdid during the online.
So we added an add operator and changed thefrequency from 100 to 5.
So you can apply these changes to your offlineversion also.
So there are two basically versions of it runningyour project and what you have deployed.
So you can see changes both ways.
When you deploy, you can see changes and when youstop, you can see changes if there are any.
But yeah, there is this.
We don't need to stop the runtime to make thechange.
For some changes, yes.
Like adding operators or configuration of values,those you can do just during.
And then you see what you did.
Please continue.
Like detuning.
OK.
Yes.
So and since last year, we have had this AI assistthat can help you with different tasks.
You can ask it about blocks documentation.
We do have pretty good documentation in general.
So you can always select anything and press F1 andyou will get the documentation of that specificblock.
But you can always ask from the AI assistant whatshould I use to achieve something.
Because it sees all the resources in the project,even your own resources if they are documented.
And can tell you if any of those are suitable forwhat you want to do.
And you get the help links to open and read aboutwhat it found for you.
I really like the AI assistant because I would saythat the CDP technology, their documentation istoo detailed for me.
It's easy to ask, yes.
It's better to ask.
And sometimes it's very difficult for me to justfind how to configure MOBAs.
And this time I asked the AI assistant to tell mehow to configure MOBAs.
And then sometimes I say, hey, I cannot find it.
Could you help me check it?
Then he will actually help me check it.
And I would say your documentation is very great,but sometimes it's too tough for me.
It's too long.
It's too detailed.
And it can also do it itself.
So it can do tasks, configuring things for you.
So you can ask it to implement some simpler logicor configure something for you.
And it is also capable of doing that because itcan use all the resources and see your project.
And if you allow the editing, then it can edityour project also.
You can not just ask, you can also edit.
So could you show me also...
I know that you also program in C++ or something.
Could you show me the screen or something?
Yes, yes.
So I'll add some base block for example.
So we do a code generation template.
So you get the template for the class that you aredeveloping.
And components and also operators typically have aprocess function,
which is this slice of real time that actuallygets executed with the frequency that you'rerunning at.
And the components can also have state machinesand multiple process functions.
So you can build a state machine and it canexecute a different process function depending onin which state it is.
But the cool part that we have added now is youcan also, in the upcoming version, ask AIassistant for coding.
So for example, you can add signals into thecomponent for real time values.
And sometimes also, for example in component,users can add signals to the component duringconfiguration.
And you might not know, for example, how do I gothrough all the signals that the component has.
Because I want to do something dynamic.
Then you can ask over all signals and print theirnames.
And you can either ask a question or do an edit.
And when you do an edit, it starts a new assistantchat with the task.
And what it will do, it will look at the API, lookat the documentation, look at the headers.
And then see how to achieve this in CDPspecifically and implement this.
But it will not change your code.
It will do you basically a pull request, a diffview of the new code.
So you can see what it will change in the code.
And then you can comment on it if you want.
And you have to decide if you want to accept thechange or you want to decline the change that itproposed for you.
I get it.
You can directly ask AI to help you program in theC++ editor also.
Okay.
So could you show me the HMI also, the HMI editor?
Yeah.
So basically when we add a new HMI application.
So we will do a new application, console, HAI.
So there is also a possibility to add a new webapplication directly or a simulator.
We'll do a UI, finish.
And you get a new native UI application.
In the meantime, the AIS is finished.
So you can click here to go and view the pullrequest that it did.
And if you are happy with this code, then you canapply the changes.
And then it will apply this to the code.
So then you have a code that iterates over all thesignals in the component and prints out theirnames.
Okay, I get it.
So you can have multiple parallel tasks running ifyou want.
And you will get the same pop-up for each one whenit completes.
And it will take you back where you were in thechat and into the correct chat because you canhave multiple chats going on in parallel.
So you can add multiple chats in just one IDE.
Yeah, there is a side panel that actually showsyou all the chats that you have had.
I know there's so many of the engineer tubes.
They also implement the AI chat for just one chat.
Yes, you can have parallel tasks in differentplaces running.
Here is the HMI.
And this is the HMI editor.
And we'll do something really simple maybe.
Maybe dragging a meter widget which is fordisplaying a gauge and add a layout to make italways fit the screen size, whatever the size is.
And best is probably to connect it to some data.
So all widgets have different routing propertiesthat you can connect.
So typically the CDP routing itself is for thevalue.
So you would auto-complete it from here.
You can do a completer here.
Or you can actually go into the control system andcopy the specific value that you want to copypath.
Copy path of the value.
Go back to the designer and paste it here.
And now it's bound to the value in the controlsystem.
But the sign value I know is between minus one andone and the meter is between zero and hundred.
So you might want to scale it locally.
The value up for example by hundred.
And we probably need to adjust the minimum valueof the meter.
So the widgets are configurable.
You can have alarm zones, warning zones.
You can change how the meter looks and how it renders.
And if it has precision after the comma or not,then basically everything is configurableincluding themes.
You can make your own themes.
And now basically it's done.
This is bound to a meter in another application.
And you have two applications.
And I will make them both native applications.
You mean now my OS is running two applications inthe same OS?
Yes.
So it basically built two application binaries andstarted them up.
And then the UI connected to the control systemand it's now displaying the scaled output valuefrom here.
So it depends on if my PC is powerful enough thatI can develop different couples of applications injust one PC.
I don't need to buy another PC for that or somespecial purchase, correct?
Yes.
So for example if you look at the CPU load, one isall of the CPU.
On my machine the UI application takes somethingbelow 1%, below a fraction of a percent.
Maybe a tenth, I don't know.
A fraction of a 1% basically, yes.
So it doesn't take much in reality.
But this is of course a laptop, so it's a properIntel processor.
Power PC, ok.
Ok, so I think all the listeners, they see whatactually what this TDP Stardew is and why I likethis system.
I like this software.
I really like this tube.
Even I tried different types of tubes, some Siemens or Kodi or something.
I think this tube is very fantastic.
All the PLC manufacturers, they also need to seethis solution.
And Judy, I would like to ask you that so many PLCmanufacturers are listening our video.
So they are always finding is there any greatsolution that is in the world.
ロードマップと日本のリスナーへのメッセージ
Ok, so thanks.
And now I would like to ask you two questions.
The first one, could you tell me your roadmap inthis year of the CDP technology, the roadmap.
What kind of new products maybe you may release inthis year?
So yeah, actually we do have release very verysoon.
We are in release testing, so in couple of nextweeks, hopefully there will be a release.
And code assistant is a new thing that you saw.
We have added a better redundancy support for HMIs.
So HMI now basically, because our redundancy worksso that you just add a synchronizer and clone theapplication.
And then basically you have it in simplest terms.
But then you can also now just create a UI androute to the main application.
And the UI will show where the leader isregardless which application is running.
So this needed to be like a multiplexed manual abit in the setup in the UI before.
But this will be automatic.
We are adding a whole new cool metric system.
This is a whole new video probably because it willallow you basically to tag data with the small keyvalue pair tags.
And then define how you want to, for example, somecounters or lifetime measurements or statisticsabout your system to be collected.
And you define these recipes based on the tags.
And it will automatically find all the tags in thesystem and instantiate for all the motors forexample.
The lifetime tracking for that motor and persistthe data counters on the controller.
So this is kind of...
Maybe this year.
Yes, no, actually next couple of weeks.
Yeah, you should download your new SCP new versionto try these new features.
And I would like to tell again, it's free.
You don't need to spend, for example, $200 to buythe software license or just to try it.
And please try it.
It's really a great platform.
Then you know that's the other solution, not justPLC.
Okay.
So I think we speak more than one hour.
So final questions.
Do you have something that you would like to sayto the Japanese listeners?
Yes, I have like this ancient curse that Terry Pratchett used quite a bit, which is very apt at thecurrent moment, I think, in the world.
May you live in interesting times.
Because for sure, the times at the moment arereally interesting.
And the way we work and how systems are built ischanging rapidly.
So it's just keep up with what is going on.
And I think we actually, I hope that we are wellpositioned to keep the AI on rails.
So why coding systems is one thing, but why codingonly like a framework that actually allows you tounderstand and see and have a visual overview ofwhat the system actually does is even moreimportant now.
Because having a solution that nobody understands,I think is bad in reality.
But having some sort of a framework or rails tokeep the AI sane and having still structure insystems and being able to understand things andwhat's going on is so important.
So I think that is the takeaway.
If you're interested, please try it.
And don't worry, in my blog, I have a Japanesetutorial that can help you to figure it out.
And finally, just let me say something to Julie.
And first of all, I think I'm very happy that Imake connections with you, really.
And very thanks for your time to comment and me tolet me know there's a solution.
It's a fully hardware dependency.
And this is what I'm thinking.
But now in LinkedIn, I always see so many poststhat they're talking about software, they'retalking about hardware dependency.
And all this time, what I first imaged is CTPtechnology.
The first solution that I thought is reallysoftware dependency.
And there are quite different types of solutions,types of ways to implement what you want to do.
For example, for me, I'm a PLC guy.
So I use mostly for the block diagram.
And for some guys who use C++, it depends on whatthey can do.
And this is also a concept for me.
Because it's like the people who said, hey, if youwant to now use the generation for ST, no peopleuse ladder.
It's old school something.
And what CP provides you is really a, you can useold school stuff, like traditional graphic, FBD orsomething.
You can use C++ if you can do that.
It's really a solution that provides you so manyways to go to goal, to reach a goal, to somethingyou are comfortable.
They provide a couple of ways for you.
And they upgrade their CTP technology.
For me, they are upgrading, updating all thesoftware very fast.
They update around one year, one or two times.
Is that correct?
Yeah, the platform usually comes out once a year.
And the IDE updates usually more often, like maybetwice a year or something like that.
And you will not see this frequency in the big PLCmanufacturers.
And even they are free.
You can try.
You can try, you can one hour to test what youwant.
And then if you think this fits for you, you cantalk the price to.
I will not talk the price in this video.
I know the price, but I will not do it.
I will not mention it here.
So, I really think that if Japan, anything, wouldlike to try, would like to know what is softwareimpendency.
What is some special, some other type for thefactory automations, or just for locking thesystem, the system data locking, for analyzing.
You should try the CDB-STAR technology.
Just try the runtime.
You should try the editor.
You should try the HMI.
This is what I do.
Yes, I wanted to say thank you for inviting me.
It was really, really great to participate inthis.
Yeah.
Okay, so, I think now in here, I think it's now inJapan, around 11 o'clock PM.
And I think now Judy is now doing PM.
I think after they will take coffee, right?
Okay, so, I would like to end this video.
So, thanks for Judy from CDB technology.
So, I hope you have a good time in this year orso.
Let's keep in contact, okay?
Okay, so, thanks for listening.
Thank you. Bye-bye.
