00:00
ジェームズ
Welcome back everybody for another deep dive.
This time we're going super meta.
サリー
Meta.
ジェームズ
Well, yeah, sort of.
We had a listener write in about a professor.
サリー
Oh, cool.
ジェームズ
Who has a podcast about education.
サリー
Wow, a podcast about, podcasts about education.
ジェームズ
Right, but actually this professor, Professor Tana is apparently.
サリー
Professor Tana.
ジェームズ
Yeah, that's the name.
Anyway, this Professor Tana is super interesting because.
サリー
I'm intrigued.
What do they have to say?
ジェームズ
Well, it seems like they're really trying to like,
Shake things up in education, you know, like really questioning how we learn.
サリー
Interesting.
So are they like anti-traditional schooling then?
ジェームズ
I don't think it's that simple.
They actually record and analyze their own lectures.
サリー
Whoa, that's pretty hardcore.
I mean, who wants to listen to their own voice that much?
ジェームズ
Right, but apparently they're trying to figure out how to make their classes less like, I don't know.
サリー
Force feeding information, like shoving facts down their students throats, whether they want them or not.
ジェームズ
Yeah, exactly.
More engaging, more student driven, I guess.
サリー
So they're not just interested in what they're teaching, but also how they're teaching it.
That's pretty cool.
ジェームズ
Right.
And get this, they're also super into what they call alternative education.
サリー
Alternative, you mean like homeschooling and stuff?
ジェームズ
Yeah, stuff like that, but also like online learning.
サリー
Oh, interesting.
Like those massive open online courses, MOOCs.
ジェームズ
Yep, exactly.
They even talked about this school in Japan, N High School.
サリー
N High School.
Okay, never heard of it.
ジェームズ
Me neither before reading this, but apparently it's all about online learning and being flexible, you know?
So Professor Tana seems to be like...
サリー
Looking at all these different ways of learning, seeing what works and what doesn't.
ジェームズ
Yeah, totally.
サリー
Yeah.
ジェームズ
Like instead of this one size fits all approach to education.
サリー
Which, let's face it, doesn't really work for everyone.
ジェームズ
Totally.
This Professor Tana is all about like finding what works for each individual student.
サリー
That's awesome.
I mean, we all learn differently, right?
Some people are visual learners, some are auditory, some need hands-on experience.
It makes sense that our education should reflect that.
ジェームズ
Right.
So they're calling this whole thing liberated learning.
サリー
Liberated learning.
I like that.
ジェームズ
Yeah.
サリー
So what does that look like in practice?
I mean, besides analyzing lectures and checking out online schools.
ジェームズ
Well, they talked a lot about this idea of like Juku, which is like...
Juku, that sounds familiar.
サリー
Isn't that like a Japanese term for a type of school?
ジェームズ
Exactly.
It was like this private tutoring system in Japan back in the day, like way back in the Edo period.
サリー
Wow.
So they're going way back for inspiration.
What was so special about these Juku?
ジェームズ
Well, it seems like they were much more focused on individual interests and skills.
サリー
So like instead of cramming a bunch of standardized curriculum down everyone's throats.
ジェームズ
Exactly.
Students would gather around a shared passion, like calligraphy or martial arts or something.
サリー
That's pretty cool.
It sounds more like a mentorship model, almost like an apprenticeship.
ジェームズ
Yeah.
And they'd have this mentor figure who'd guide them.
So Professor Tana sees this as like a model for...
サリー
A more personalized and engaging approach to education.
One that fosters genuine curiosity instead of just rote memorization.
ジェームズ
You got it.
03:00
ジェームズ
They even brought up this author, Umeda Mochio, who wrote about like...
サリー
Wait, hold on.
Umeda Mochio.
I think I've heard that name before.
ジェームズ
Yeah.
サリー
Yeah.
Didn't they write that book, "Recommendations for Private Schools," like ages ago?
Yes.
ジェームズ
That's the one.
I think it came out like a decade or more ago.
サリー
Yeah, something like that.
ジェームズ
Yeah.
サリー
It was all about how traditional schools were failing to meet the needs of a lot of learners.
ジェームズ
Right.
And how online learning and personalized education were going to be like the next big thing.
サリー
Totally.
It's wild to think how much has changed in education, even just in the last 10 years, you know?
ジェームズ
I know, right?
So Professor Tana is kind of picking up where Mochio left off, I guess.
Like, OK, online learning is great and all, but...
サリー
But just having access to information doesn't automatically mean people are going to be engaged or learn effectively.
ジェームズ
You took the words right out of my mouth.
サリー
It's like Thay Say, you can lead a horse to water.
ジェームズ
But you can't make a drink.
サリー
Exactly.
So that seems to be the challenge Professor Tana is grappling with, right?
Like how to make learning.
ジェームズ
Not a chore, but something that people actually want to do.
サリー
Right.
Something that sparks that inner fire, that thirst for knowledge.
ジェームズ
OK, so what's the secret sauce?
What makes people actually want to learn?
サリー
That's the million dollar question, right?
And it's probably different for everyone.
True, true.
ジェームズ
But Professor Tana does have some interesting ideas.
サリー
Oh, like what?
ジェームズ
Well, they talk a lot about the importance of both structure and freedom.
サリー
OK, that makes sense.
Too much structure and it feels like you're being boxed in.
ジェームズ
Yeah.
サリー
But too much freedom and you might flounder, not know where to even begin.
ジェームズ
Exactly.
So it's about finding that sweet spot, that balance between...
サリー
Guidance and autonomy.
ジェームズ
Yeah, exactly.
And then they have this really wild idea.
サリー
Ooh, I love wild ideas.
Lay it on me.
ジェームズ
They call it a learning consultation center.
サリー
What?
ジェームズ
A learning consultation center.
So imagine if there was a place kind of like a...
サリー
Like a library?
ジェームズ
Kind of, but not really.
It's more like, think of those senior citizen consultation centers.
サリー
OK, yeah.
I think I've seen those around.
ジェームズ
So they're thinking, what if there was a place like that, but for learning?
サリー
Intriguing.
So anyone could go there, no matter their age, and get help with...
ジェームズ
Anything related to learning.
Like if you wanted to learn a new skill or find a mentor or just figure out what you're passionate about.
サリー
Wow, that's a cool idea.
It's like a one-stop shop for all your learning needs.
ジェームズ
Right.
And it just shows how Professor Tana is really thinking outside the box about education.
You know, it doesn't have to be limited to...
サリー
Stuffy classrooms and textbooks.
ジェームズ
Exactly.
It can be something that's accessible and empowering for everyone throughout their lives.
サリー
I love it.
It's like they're saying, hey, we have resources for people who need help with their physical health.
Why not their intellectual and creative well-being, too?
ジェームズ
Right.
And it ties back to their whole idea of liberated learning.
サリー
Yeah, it's all about giving people the tools and resources they need to chart their own course.
ジェームズ
To become lifelong learners.
サリー
This is already making me question everything I thought I knew about education.
What else has Professor Tana dug up in their quest to liberate learning?
06:02
ジェームズ
Oh, there's so much more.
They get into some pretty deep philosophical stuff, too.
Like this concept of deschooling.
サリー
Deschooling.
Now, that sounds intense.
Is that like literally getting rid of schools?
ジェームズ
Well, not quite.
It's more about questioning the role of traditional institutions in education.
サリー
Interesting.
So where did this idea of deschooling come from?
ジェームズ
It was coined by this guy Ivan Illich.
サリー
OK, I've heard of him.
Wasn't he like a pretty radical thinker?
ジェームズ
Yeah, he was definitely way ahead of his time.
He argued that traditional schools often stifle creativity and critical thinking by imposing...
サリー
Rigid curriculum and standardized methods, like we were talking about earlier.
That one-size-fits-all approach.
ジェームズ
Exactly.
And so deschooling is all about advocating for a more learner-centered approach where individuals are...
サリー
Empowered to direct their own education.
To draw upon a variety of resources beyond the classroom.
ジェームズ
Like libraries, museums, online communities, even everyday experiences.
サリー
It's like turning the whole world into a classroom.
ジェームズ
Right.
And Professor Tana takes this idea even further.
They think institutions like libraries could become like hubs.
サリー
Hubs for learning.
What do you mean?
ジェームズ
Like these learning webs.
Connecting people with resources and mentors based on their interests.
サリー
That's fascinating.
So libraries wouldn't just be about books anymore.
They'd be about facilitating these vibrant learning communities.
ジェームズ
Exactly.
It's like they're envisioning a whole new ecosystem for education.
One that's more personalized, more accessible, and...
サリー
More aligned with the way we naturally learn and grow.
ジェームズ
You got it.
And it's all driven by this fundamental belief that learning should be.
サリー
Driven by curiosity, passion, and genuine desire to explore.
ジェームズ
I'm already feeling so inspired.
I can't wait to hear what other gems Professor Tana has uncovered in their quest to liberate learning.
サリー
Me too.
This is just the tip of the iceberg.
There's so much more to unpack here.
ジェームズ
Right.
Like what specific things is Professor Tana doing in their own teaching to make it more engaging?
サリー
And what about their plans to build their own juku?
We need to dive into those details.
ジェームズ
Absolutely.
Let's take a quick break and then we'll come back for part two of our deep dive.
サリー
Can't wait.
Okay, so we're back and ready to dig deeper into Professor Tana's world.
One thing that really struck me is how much they emphasize the emotional side of learning.
ジェームズ
Oh yeah, totally.
They're not just talking about like cramming your head with facts.
サリー
It's more about rekindling that joy of discovery, you know?
Nurturing that innate curiosity we all have.
ジェームズ
It's like they're advocating for a more holistic approach to education.
Not just intellectual growth, but also...
サリー
Emotional and even social development.
Like learning should engage the whole person, right?
ジェームズ
Exactly.
And I think that's something that resonates with a lot of people because so many of us have had those experiences with education that felt...
サリー
Dry.
Impersonal.
Soul-crushing even.
ジェームズ
Yeah, like you're just a cog in the machine going through the motions.
サリー
I know that feeling.
Professor Tana actually compared some traditional lectures to package tours.
ジェームズ
Package tours.
That's a funny analogy.
サリー
Right.
But it makes sense.
Like everything's planned out in advance.
09:00
サリー
No room for spontaneity or genuine exploration.
ジェームズ
You're just shuffled along from point A to point B, checking off boxes, but not really engaging with anything.
サリー
And that lack of agency can be so demotivating.
It's like being told what to think instead of...
ジェームズ
Being encouraged to think for yourself.
サリー
Exactly.
And they actually argued that this kind of force feeding of information can actually hinder true learning.
ジェームズ
So how do we break free from that model?
How do we make learning more joyful and engaging?
サリー
Well, Professor Tana seems to think it starts with the learner's interests instead of...
ジェームズ
Forcing everyone to follow the same curriculum.
サリー
Why not let people explore topics that genuinely excite them?
ジェームズ
Yeah, it makes sense.
If you're passionate about something, you're gonna be way more motivated to learn, right?
サリー
Totally.
It's like, think about reading.
Would you rather be forced to read some boring textbook or...
ジェームズ
Curl up with a good book that you picked out yourself.
サリー
Exactly.
And remember their radical idea about a learning consultation center.
ジェームズ
Oh yeah, that was such a cool concept.
サリー
They were talking about their elderly parents and how the senior citizen consultation center was so helpful for them and they thought...
ジェームズ
Why not have something similar for learning?
サリー
Imagine, you could go there no matter your age and get personalized advice on...
ジェームズ
Any learning goal you could possibly imagine.
Finding a mentor, learning a new skill, whatever.
サリー
It's like having a personal guide on your learning journey.
ジェームズ
Right, it shows how Professor Tana is thinking outside the box.
Right.
Like, education doesn't have to be limited to these...
サリー
Formal institutions with their rigid structures and schedules.
ジェームズ
It can be something that's much more flexible, accessible and empowering for everyone.
サリー
I love that idea.
It's like a community center, but for learning.
ジェームズ
And they're not just thinking about physical spaces either.
They also talked about creating a virtual juku.
サリー
A virtual juku.
What would that look like?
ジェームズ
Like an online community where learners from all over the world can connect.
サリー
Share resources, collaborate on projects, get support from mentors.
ジェームズ
Exactly. It's kind of combining the best of both worlds, right?
サリー
Yeah, the intimacy and support of a traditional juku with the global reach of the Internet.
ジェームズ
And they see technology as a really powerful tool for personalizing the learning experience too.
サリー
Tailoring content and resources to individual needs and interests.
ジェームズ
This is making me think of one of Professor Tana's book recommendations.
Learning on the Web by Umeda Mochio.
サリー
Oh yeah, Mochio was all about the potential of the Internet to revolutionize education.
ジェームズ
Giving people access to information and connecting learners with experts from all over the globe.
サリー
But it's not just about access, right?
Professor Tana also acknowledges the potential pitfalls of technology.
ジェームズ
Like we were saying before, just because you have access to information doesn't mean you know how to use it effectively.
サリー
Or that you'll be motivated to learn.
ジェームズ
Right. You need to develop those critical thinking skills, figure out how to sift through all the noise.
サリー
Find ways to connect with others in meaningful ways.
ジェームズ
So it's not about abandoning traditional education altogether.
It's about...
サリー
Rethinking its role in this new landscape.
ジェームズ
Professor Tana seems to be doing a great job of bridging that gap, blending...
サリー
Ancient wisdom with modern innovation.
12:01
ジェームズ
One thing that comes up a lot in their work is this idea of compulsion in education.
They talk about it in relation to Mochio's writing.
サリー
Oh, right.
Mochio argued that even in a world of abundant resources, there's still a need for some kind of system of compulsion to keep people motivated and on track.
ジェームズ
But Professor Tana isn't a fan of the traditional forms of compulsion like...
サリー
Grades and standardized tests.
ジェームズ
They see those as often stifling creativity and intrinsic motivation.
サリー
It's like you're trying to force someone to learn instead of trusting that they have that natural desire to learn and grow.
ジェームズ
So what's the alternative?
What kind of compulsion is Professor Tana talking about?
サリー
It seems like they're looking for ways to tap into those internal motivators.
Curiosity, passion, the desire to make a difference in the world.
ジェームズ
Those are the things that can really fuel lifelong learning.
サリー
And this connects back to one of Professor Tana's other book recommendations, The Book of Adventure by Son Taizo.
ジェームズ
Oh, yeah.
That book was all about embracing a more playful and exploratory approach to learning.
サリー
Encouraging people to follow their interests and see the world as this vast playground of possibilities.
ジェームズ
And that seems to be at the heart of Professor Tana's vision for education.
Transforming learning from a chore into an adventure.
サリー
From passive information absorption to active discovery and creation.
ジェームズ
It's a beautiful vision, and I think it's one that resonates with a lot of people.
サリー
We're all searching for more meaning and purpose in our lives.
And Professor Tana is showing us that learning can be a pathway to those things.
ジェームズ
It's about so much more than just acquiring knowledge or skills.
It's about cultivating our curiosity, expanding our horizons and...
サリー
Connecting with something larger than ourselves.
ジェームズ
It's about becoming more fully human.
サリー
That's a beautiful way to put it.
I think we've covered a lot of ground in this deep dive so far.
ジェームズ
We've explored Professor Tana's critique of traditional schooling.
Their fascination with alternative learning models and their vision for a more liberated and human-centered approach to education.
サリー
We've journeyed from ancient Japanese juku to modern online learning platforms.
ジェームズ
From the philosophical ideas of Ivan Illich to the practical wisdom of the Senior Citizen Consultation Center.
サリー
And through it all, we've seen how Professor Tana's thinking is shaped by this deep belief in the transformative power of learning.
ジェームズ
And their commitment to making education more accessible, engaging and empowering for everyone.
サリー
It's been an incredible journey, but we're not done yet.
There's still so much more to explore.
ジェームズ
Like Professor Tana hinted at wanting to create their own juku.
サリー
Both online and offline.
Bridging the gap between traditional academia and these more innovative approaches.
ジェームズ
I'm dying to hear more about their plans for that.
It sounds like they're still in the early stages, but I have a feeling it's going to be something truly special.
サリー
Me too.
So are you ready to dive into the next layer of Professor Tana's explorations?
ジェームズ
Absolutely.
Let's do it.
サリー
You know, it's amazing how Professor Tana brings together all these different things.
Yeah.
ジェームズ
What do you mean?
サリー
Well, like we've been talking about, they're referencing old Japanese juku, but also like modern online learning.
15:03
ジェームズ
And don't forget all the philosophy they bring in.
サリー
Right.
Like Illich and deschooling.
Plus they weave in their own personal stories, too.
It's all part of their vision for the future of learning.
ジェームズ
It's like they're creating this tapestry of ideas.
サリー
A tapestry.
That's a good way to put it.
And what I find really inspiring is that they're not just talking about this stuff.
ジェームズ
They're actually putting it into practice.
サリー
Yeah.
They're experimenting in their own classroom, trying to make it more engaging for their students.
ジェームズ
And they're also working on building something totally new.
サリー
Their own juku.
Right.
ジェームズ
Exactly.
Both online and offline.
サリー
Wow.
That's ambitious.
ジェームズ
It is.
But they seem really passionate about it.
They want to create this space where people can learn together, guided by mentors.
It's kind of like a modern day version of those Edo period juku.
サリー
But with a 21st century twist.
ジェームズ
Exactly.
And they're really keen on using technology to make it more accessible and inclusive.
サリー
Bringing together people from all over the world with all sorts of different interests.
ジェームズ
It's like they're building this global community of learners.
サリー
And it's not just about acquiring knowledge.
Right.
It's about developing those crucial skills for the 21st century.
ジェームズ
Critical thinking, creativity, collaboration, communication.
サリー
Exactly.
The things you need to thrive in today's world.
ジェームズ
It's about preparing people, not just for jobs, but for life, you know.
サリー
To be active and engaged citizens who can contribute to society.
ジェームズ
And that brings us back to Professor Tana's core message.
Learning isn't just a means to an end.
It's an end in itself.
サリー
Right.
It's about cultivating our curiosity, expanding our horizons.
ジェームズ
Connecting with something bigger than ourselves.
サリー
Becoming more fully human.
ジェームズ
That's it, exactly.
And Professor Tana's work is a powerful testament to that vision.
サリー
They're showing us that learning can be joyful, liberating and fulfilling.
ジェームズ
Inspiring a whole generation of learners to embrace the adventure of lifelong learning.
サリー
And they're challenging us to rethink our assumptions about education.
ジェームズ
To break free from those outdated systems and create something truly new.
Professor Tana's work is a beacon of hope in a world that can feel so overwhelming at times.
They remind us that learning is essential.
サリー
It's how we unlock our potential.
ジェームズ
Solve the challenges we face.
サリー
And create a better future for everyone.
ジェームズ
Wow, I am so inspired after this deep dive.
What about you?
Me too.
Professor Tana's passion is contagious.
ジェームズ
And I love how they share their own struggles and insights.
サリー
Makes them seem more relatable.
Like they're on this journey with us.
Right.
サリー
They're not just telling us what to do.
They're figuring it out along with us.
ジェームズ
It reminds us that we're all lifelong learners.
サリー
On this incredible journey of discovery and growth.
ジェームズ
And we don't have to do it alone.
サリー
We can learn from each other, support each other.
ジェームズ
Create communities that nourish our curiosity.
サリー
So as we wrap up this deep dive, I want to leave you with a challenge.
ジェームズ
A challenge.
サリー
Yes.
Take what you've learned today and apply it to your own life.
ジェームズ
How can you make learning more joyful and meaningful?
サリー
What steps can you take to create your own juku?
Even if it's just in your own home or community.
18:02
ジェームズ
Don't be afraid to experiment.
Take risks.
Step outside your comfort zone.
サリー
The world needs your curiosity and your creativity.
ジェームズ
Go out there, explore, create, and make your mark.
サリー
Maybe someday we'll be doing a deep dive on your amazing work.
ジェームズ
That's a great thought.
Until next time, keep learning everyone.
