00:00
Welcome back everybody for another deep dive.
This time we're going super meta.
Meta.
Well, yeah, sort of.
We had a listener write in about a professor.
Oh, cool.
Who has a podcast about education.
Wow, a podcast about, podcasts about education.
Right, but actually this professor, Professor Tana is apparently.
Professor Tana.
Yeah, that's the name.
Anyway, this Professor Tana is super interesting because.
I'm intrigued.
What do they have to say?
Well, it seems like they're really trying to like,
Shake things up in education, you know, like really questioning how we learn.
Interesting.
So are they like anti-traditional schooling then?
I don't think it's that simple.
They actually record and analyze their own lectures.
Whoa, that's pretty hardcore.
I mean, who wants to listen to their own voice that much?
Right, but apparently they're trying to figure out how to make their classes less like, I don't know.
Force feeding information, like shoving facts down their students throats, whether they want them or not.
Yeah, exactly.
More engaging, more student driven, I guess.
So they're not just interested in what they're teaching, but also how they're teaching it.
That's pretty cool.
Right.
And get this, they're also super into what they call alternative education.
Alternative, you mean like homeschooling and stuff?
Yeah, stuff like that, but also like online learning.
Oh, interesting.
Like those massive open online courses, MOOCs.
Yep, exactly.
They even talked about this school in Japan, N High School.
N High School.
Okay, never heard of it.
Me neither before reading this, but apparently it's all about online learning and being flexible, you know?
So Professor Tana seems to be like...
Looking at all these different ways of learning, seeing what works and what doesn't.
Yeah, totally.
Yeah.
Like instead of this one size fits all approach to education.
Which, let's face it, doesn't really work for everyone.
Totally.
This Professor Tana is all about like finding what works for each individual student.
That's awesome.
I mean, we all learn differently, right?
Some people are visual learners, some are auditory, some need hands-on experience.
It makes sense that our education should reflect that.
Right.
So they're calling this whole thing liberated learning.
Liberated learning.
I like that.
Yeah.
So what does that look like in practice?
I mean, besides analyzing lectures and checking out online schools.
Well, they talked a lot about this idea of like Juku, which is like...
Juku, that sounds familiar.
Isn't that like a Japanese term for a type of school?
Exactly.
It was like this private tutoring system in Japan back in the day, like way back in the Edo period.
Wow.
So they're going way back for inspiration.
What was so special about these Juku?
Well, it seems like they were much more focused on individual interests and skills.
So like instead of cramming a bunch of standardized curriculum down everyone's throats.
Exactly.
Students would gather around a shared passion, like calligraphy or martial arts or something.
That's pretty cool.
It sounds more like a mentorship model, almost like an apprenticeship.
Yeah.
And they'd have this mentor figure who'd guide them.
So Professor Tana sees this as like a model for...
A more personalized and engaging approach to education.
One that fosters genuine curiosity instead of just rote memorization.
You got it.
03:00
They even brought up this author, Umeda Mochio, who wrote about like...
Wait, hold on.
Umeda Mochio.
I think I've heard that name before.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Didn't they write that book, "Recommendations for Private Schools," like ages ago?
Yes.
That's the one.
I think it came out like a decade or more ago.
Yeah, something like that.
Yeah.
It was all about how traditional schools were failing to meet the needs of a lot of learners.
Right.
And how online learning and personalized education were going to be like the next big thing.
Totally.
It's wild to think how much has changed in education, even just in the last 10 years, you know?
I know, right?
So Professor Tana is kind of picking up where Mochio left off, I guess.
Like, OK, online learning is great and all, but...
But just having access to information doesn't automatically mean people are going to be engaged or learn effectively.
You took the words right out of my mouth.
It's like Thay Say, you can lead a horse to water.
But you can't make a drink.
Exactly.
So that seems to be the challenge Professor Tana is grappling with, right?
Like how to make learning.
Not a chore, but something that people actually want to do.
Right.
Something that sparks that inner fire, that thirst for knowledge.
OK, so what's the secret sauce?
What makes people actually want to learn?
That's the million dollar question, right?
And it's probably different for everyone.
True, true.
But Professor Tana does have some interesting ideas.
Oh, like what?
Well, they talk a lot about the importance of both structure and freedom.
OK, that makes sense.
Too much structure and it feels like you're being boxed in.
Yeah.
But too much freedom and you might flounder, not know where to even begin.
Exactly.
So it's about finding that sweet spot, that balance between...
Guidance and autonomy.
Yeah, exactly.
And then they have this really wild idea.
Ooh, I love wild ideas.
Lay it on me.
They call it a learning consultation center.
What?
A learning consultation center.
So imagine if there was a place kind of like a...
Like a library?
Kind of, but not really.
It's more like, think of those senior citizen consultation centers.
OK, yeah.
I think I've seen those around.
So they're thinking, what if there was a place like that, but for learning?
Intriguing.
So anyone could go there, no matter their age, and get help with...
Anything related to learning.
Like if you wanted to learn a new skill or find a mentor or just figure out what you're passionate about.
Wow, that's a cool idea.
It's like a one-stop shop for all your learning needs.
Right.
And it just shows how Professor Tana is really thinking outside the box about education.
You know, it doesn't have to be limited to...
Stuffy classrooms and textbooks.
Exactly.
It can be something that's accessible and empowering for everyone throughout their lives.
I love it.
It's like they're saying, hey, we have resources for people who need help with their physical health.
Why not their intellectual and creative well-being, too?
Right.
And it ties back to their whole idea of liberated learning.
Yeah, it's all about giving people the tools and resources they need to chart their own course.
To become lifelong learners.
This is already making me question everything I thought I knew about education.
What else has Professor Tana dug up in their quest to liberate learning?
06:02
Oh, there's so much more.
They get into some pretty deep philosophical stuff, too.
Like this concept of deschooling.
Deschooling.
Now, that sounds intense.
Is that like literally getting rid of schools?
Well, not quite.
It's more about questioning the role of traditional institutions in education.
Interesting.
So where did this idea of deschooling come from?
It was coined by this guy Ivan Illich.
OK, I've heard of him.
Wasn't he like a pretty radical thinker?
Yeah, he was definitely way ahead of his time.
He argued that traditional schools often stifle creativity and critical thinking by imposing...
Rigid curriculum and standardized methods, like we were talking about earlier.
That one-size-fits-all approach.
Exactly.
And so deschooling is all about advocating for a more learner-centered approach where individuals are...
Empowered to direct their own education.
To draw upon a variety of resources beyond the classroom.
Like libraries, museums, online communities, even everyday experiences.
It's like turning the whole world into a classroom.
Right.
And Professor Tana takes this idea even further.
They think institutions like libraries could become like hubs.
Hubs for learning.
What do you mean?
Like these learning webs.
Connecting people with resources and mentors based on their interests.
That's fascinating.
So libraries wouldn't just be about books anymore.
They'd be about facilitating these vibrant learning communities.
Exactly.
It's like they're envisioning a whole new ecosystem for education.
One that's more personalized, more accessible, and...
More aligned with the way we naturally learn and grow.
You got it.
And it's all driven by this fundamental belief that learning should be.
Driven by curiosity, passion, and genuine desire to explore.
I'm already feeling so inspired.
I can't wait to hear what other gems Professor Tana has uncovered in their quest to liberate learning.
Me too.
This is just the tip of the iceberg.
There's so much more to unpack here.
Right.
Like what specific things is Professor Tana doing in their own teaching to make it more engaging?
And what about their plans to build their own juku?
We need to dive into those details.
Absolutely.
Let's take a quick break and then we'll come back for part two of our deep dive.
Can't wait.
Okay, so we're back and ready to dig deeper into Professor Tana's world.
One thing that really struck me is how much they emphasize the emotional side of learning.
Oh yeah, totally.
They're not just talking about like cramming your head with facts.
It's more about rekindling that joy of discovery, you know?
Nurturing that innate curiosity we all have.
It's like they're advocating for a more holistic approach to education.
Not just intellectual growth, but also...
Emotional and even social development.
Like learning should engage the whole person, right?
Exactly.
And I think that's something that resonates with a lot of people because so many of us have had those experiences with education that felt...
Dry.
Impersonal.
Soul-crushing even.
Yeah, like you're just a cog in the machine going through the motions.
I know that feeling.
Professor Tana actually compared some traditional lectures to package tours.
Package tours.
That's a funny analogy.
Right.
But it makes sense.
Like everything's planned out in advance.
09:00
No room for spontaneity or genuine exploration.
You're just shuffled along from point A to point B, checking off boxes, but not really engaging with anything.
And that lack of agency can be so demotivating.
It's like being told what to think instead of...
Being encouraged to think for yourself.
Exactly.
And they actually argued that this kind of force feeding of information can actually hinder true learning.
So how do we break free from that model?
How do we make learning more joyful and engaging?
Well, Professor Tana seems to think it starts with the learner's interests instead of...
Forcing everyone to follow the same curriculum.
Why not let people explore topics that genuinely excite them?
Yeah, it makes sense.
If you're passionate about something, you're gonna be way more motivated to learn, right?
Totally.
It's like, think about reading.
Would you rather be forced to read some boring textbook or...
Curl up with a good book that you picked out yourself.
Exactly.
And remember their radical idea about a learning consultation center.
Oh yeah, that was such a cool concept.
They were talking about their elderly parents and how the senior citizen consultation center was so helpful for them and they thought...
Why not have something similar for learning?
Imagine, you could go there no matter your age and get personalized advice on...
Any learning goal you could possibly imagine.
Finding a mentor, learning a new skill, whatever.
It's like having a personal guide on your learning journey.
Right, it shows how Professor Tana is thinking outside the box.
Right.
Like, education doesn't have to be limited to these...
Formal institutions with their rigid structures and schedules.
It can be something that's much more flexible, accessible and empowering for everyone.
I love that idea.
It's like a community center, but for learning.
And they're not just thinking about physical spaces either.
They also talked about creating a virtual juku.
A virtual juku.
What would that look like?
Like an online community where learners from all over the world can connect.
Share resources, collaborate on projects, get support from mentors.
Exactly. It's kind of combining the best of both worlds, right?
Yeah, the intimacy and support of a traditional juku with the global reach of the Internet.
And they see technology as a really powerful tool for personalizing the learning experience too.
Tailoring content and resources to individual needs and interests.
This is making me think of one of Professor Tana's book recommendations.
Learning on the Web by Umeda Mochio.
Oh yeah, Mochio was all about the potential of the Internet to revolutionize education.
Giving people access to information and connecting learners with experts from all over the globe.
But it's not just about access, right?
Professor Tana also acknowledges the potential pitfalls of technology.
Like we were saying before, just because you have access to information doesn't mean you know how to use it effectively.
Or that you'll be motivated to learn.
Right. You need to develop those critical thinking skills, figure out how to sift through all the noise.
Find ways to connect with others in meaningful ways.
So it's not about abandoning traditional education altogether.
It's about...
Rethinking its role in this new landscape.
Professor Tana seems to be doing a great job of bridging that gap, blending...
Ancient wisdom with modern innovation.
12:01
One thing that comes up a lot in their work is this idea of compulsion in education.
They talk about it in relation to Mochio's writing.
Oh, right.
Mochio argued that even in a world of abundant resources, there's still a need for some kind of system of compulsion to keep people motivated and on track.
But Professor Tana isn't a fan of the traditional forms of compulsion like...
Grades and standardized tests.
They see those as often stifling creativity and intrinsic motivation.
It's like you're trying to force someone to learn instead of trusting that they have that natural desire to learn and grow.
So what's the alternative?
What kind of compulsion is Professor Tana talking about?
It seems like they're looking for ways to tap into those internal motivators.
Curiosity, passion, the desire to make a difference in the world.
Those are the things that can really fuel lifelong learning.
And this connects back to one of Professor Tana's other book recommendations, The Book of Adventure by Son Taizo.
Oh, yeah.
That book was all about embracing a more playful and exploratory approach to learning.
Encouraging people to follow their interests and see the world as this vast playground of possibilities.
And that seems to be at the heart of Professor Tana's vision for education.
Transforming learning from a chore into an adventure.
From passive information absorption to active discovery and creation.
It's a beautiful vision, and I think it's one that resonates with a lot of people.
We're all searching for more meaning and purpose in our lives.
And Professor Tana is showing us that learning can be a pathway to those things.
It's about so much more than just acquiring knowledge or skills.
It's about cultivating our curiosity, expanding our horizons and...
Connecting with something larger than ourselves.
It's about becoming more fully human.
That's a beautiful way to put it.
I think we've covered a lot of ground in this deep dive so far.
We've explored Professor Tana's critique of traditional schooling.
Their fascination with alternative learning models and their vision for a more liberated and human-centered approach to education.
We've journeyed from ancient Japanese juku to modern online learning platforms.
From the philosophical ideas of Ivan Illich to the practical wisdom of the Senior Citizen Consultation Center.
And through it all, we've seen how Professor Tana's thinking is shaped by this deep belief in the transformative power of learning.
And their commitment to making education more accessible, engaging and empowering for everyone.
It's been an incredible journey, but we're not done yet.
There's still so much more to explore.
Like Professor Tana hinted at wanting to create their own juku.
Both online and offline.
Bridging the gap between traditional academia and these more innovative approaches.
I'm dying to hear more about their plans for that.
It sounds like they're still in the early stages, but I have a feeling it's going to be something truly special.
Me too.
So are you ready to dive into the next layer of Professor Tana's explorations?
Absolutely.
Let's do it.
You know, it's amazing how Professor Tana brings together all these different things.
Yeah.
What do you mean?
Well, like we've been talking about, they're referencing old Japanese juku, but also like modern online learning.
15:03
And don't forget all the philosophy they bring in.
Right.
Like Illich and deschooling.
Plus they weave in their own personal stories, too.
It's all part of their vision for the future of learning.
It's like they're creating this tapestry of ideas.
A tapestry.
That's a good way to put it.
And what I find really inspiring is that they're not just talking about this stuff.
They're actually putting it into practice.
Yeah.
They're experimenting in their own classroom, trying to make it more engaging for their students.
And they're also working on building something totally new.
Their own juku.
Right.
Exactly.
Both online and offline.
Wow.
That's ambitious.
It is.
But they seem really passionate about it.
They want to create this space where people can learn together, guided by mentors.
It's kind of like a modern day version of those Edo period juku.
But with a 21st century twist.
Exactly.
And they're really keen on using technology to make it more accessible and inclusive.
Bringing together people from all over the world with all sorts of different interests.
It's like they're building this global community of learners.
And it's not just about acquiring knowledge.
Right.
It's about developing those crucial skills for the 21st century.
Critical thinking, creativity, collaboration, communication.
Exactly.
The things you need to thrive in today's world.
It's about preparing people, not just for jobs, but for life, you know.
To be active and engaged citizens who can contribute to society.
And that brings us back to Professor Tana's core message.
Learning isn't just a means to an end.
It's an end in itself.
Right.
It's about cultivating our curiosity, expanding our horizons.
Connecting with something bigger than ourselves.
Becoming more fully human.
That's it, exactly.
And Professor Tana's work is a powerful testament to that vision.
They're showing us that learning can be joyful, liberating and fulfilling.
Inspiring a whole generation of learners to embrace the adventure of lifelong learning.
And they're challenging us to rethink our assumptions about education.
To break free from those outdated systems and create something truly new.
Professor Tana's work is a beacon of hope in a world that can feel so overwhelming at times.
They remind us that learning is essential.
It's how we unlock our potential.
Solve the challenges we face.
And create a better future for everyone.
Wow, I am so inspired after this deep dive.
What about you?
Me too.
Professor Tana's passion is contagious.
And I love how they share their own struggles and insights.
Makes them seem more relatable.
Like they're on this journey with us.
Right.
They're not just telling us what to do.
They're figuring it out along with us.
It reminds us that we're all lifelong learners.
On this incredible journey of discovery and growth.
And we don't have to do it alone.
We can learn from each other, support each other.
Create communities that nourish our curiosity.
So as we wrap up this deep dive, I want to leave you with a challenge.
A challenge.
Yes.
Take what you've learned today and apply it to your own life.
How can you make learning more joyful and meaningful?
What steps can you take to create your own juku?
Even if it's just in your own home or community.
18:02
Don't be afraid to experiment.
Take risks.
Step outside your comfort zone.
The world needs your curiosity and your creativity.
Go out there, explore, create, and make your mark.
Maybe someday we'll be doing a deep dive on your amazing work.
That's a great thought.
Until next time, keep learning everyone.