ゲスト紹介と西海岸の魅力
Hello, Len.
Hello, Asami.
How's it going?
We have a guest today.
Yeah, we do.
中村さんと和田さん、アメゴから来ていただいています。
Nice to meet you.
よろしくお願いします。
Do you want to introduce your podcast a little bit?
日本語でも全然大丈夫なんです。
Hi, I'm Makoto.
I'm doing the podcast called American Night Gold.
日本語でもアメリカンナイトゴールドって言うんですけど。
With 和田さん。
和田さん is working as 裏カタ。
But he's...
Just a producer.
Yes.
今回はちょっと引きずり出してきて。
そうですね。引きずり出してきてください。
和田さん is actually good at talking with people.
めちゃめちゃおしゃべりです。
まずちょっと中村さんの自己紹介をちょっと集中してもらって。
僕は後でやるんで。
I'm Nakamura in my podcast.
And you are currently in the US?
Yes, in San Francisco, California.
Yes.
Right, right, right.
Then I'm working in the kind of medical science area.
As a postdoc.
People know postdoc, maybe?
I think a lot of people who listen to this podcast have heard about postdoc enough.
It's an underpaid internship for people with doctorate.
Done.
I'm coming in heavy-handed this morning.
And also, this is Wara.
So I'm just a producer of the American Night World.
I don't usually talk, but sometimes I do.
Thank you very much.
I'm also researching some universities in San Francisco as a postdoc researcher.
And we, including Nakamura, we spent almost three and a half years.
Yeah, maybe something like that.
But we had a good period in San Francisco with experience,
with having much of the opportunity to learn American culture or the Bay Area culture.
We fully enjoy such American life in this city.
So thank you for inviting me today.
東海岸の利点
Happy for you.
Happy for you, happy for you.
So as you can hear, these guys are hardcore West Coast people.
I mean, that's the only place you guys lived in America, right?
Yeah.
It means you have a perfect understanding, right?
It's not mixed with other.
It's a purebred, contained experience of America.
Well, over here, Len is born and raised in Massachusetts.
And I, almost entirety of my time in the U.S., that was almost 10 years, was spent in New York and Boston vicinity.
So very East Coast person.
So we figure we got to, you know, straight things out.
And so in the episode that is going to be published in Amego-san no hou no bangumi de deru episode de wa,
they are trying to sell us the good parts of West Coast, you know.
Well, I heard about the West Coast pride.
So, well, well, well.
It's not like there's nothing good about it, right?
But from here, I'd like to talk about why we East Coast people like the East Coast.
So, all right.
So, Len, let's go.
Yeah, let's do it.
So I don't change my mind.
I hope you stay on my team, but first and foremost.
You do not need a car in most major cities in like New England area.
And I say this with a caveat because there's only very few major cities in New England.
And perhaps the larger part of New England, you will benefit from having a car.
And I also say this as a person who got the Rhode Island license, came back to Japan, tried to get a Japanese license and failed.
So I'm clearly bitter about driving license.
In Japan, I had to do practicals to change my license.
The actual practicals, right?
Because paper, 10 out of 10, I passed.
No problem.
But when it came to practicals, they found out that I was clearly not used to driving.
So I was kicked out because I got on the train twice.
So you didn't practice before the exam.
I practiced on the top of the supermarket.
Like the little parking lot at the supermarket.
I did the little maneuvers, right?
Like I did the parking and parallel parking.
I did those for the time being.
But first of all, it's the opposite side of the road, right?
The steering wheel is the opposite.
So I didn't know the feeling of the width of the car.
Also, I just wasn't used to practicing.
公共交通機関の比較
I really didn't need the car.
Because Len...
I would say that Len and I became friends because I needed rides several times.
And I was like,
Hey, Len, I know you got a car.
This was the start.
When I said, let's go hiking or go to the beach,
most of the time, Len would give me a ride.
So I was able to make friends by getting on the train.
That's why I have two cars.
I don't need a car.
But in real life, especially in New York, there is a subway.
In a relatively large city where there are schools,
there are buses or something.
Of course, the more you meet people, the more you can interact.
But as I said earlier,
it's also an excuse to get along with people who have a car.
Even if you don't have a car, you can live at all.
I think that's the plus of the East Coast.
There is also the West Coast, but I don't have a good impression of public transportation.
Seattle is also okay, but LA is terrible.
I visited LA last month.
I just take Uber to go somewhere.
Otherwise, I need to walk to the station,
and then I need to get in,
and then I arrive at a weird place,
and I need to walk to my destination.
LA is terrible transportation for me,
but San Francisco is good.
I also agree about that.
Two weeks ago, I went to San Diego,
but I had a very similar experience in that city.
When I try to go outside of the downtown,
it requires some Uber or Lyft transportation,
but only in the downtown, it is okay.
We can use public transportation in the city,
but out of the downtown, we need to get some car service.
I totally agree with Nakamura.
San Francisco is kind of okay,
but sometimes we have some trouble in public transportation.
What was the word?
Stranger?
Yes, some stranger makes trouble in the train or bus.
We couldn't say it is always safe,
but it is still useful.
I would say New York subway is definitely
one of the top tiers in America,
which is not a high standard in my opinion.
DC is pretty nice.
The system itself is nice.
It makes sense that this is where foreign ministers will hang out,
so you got to look nice for them.
New York City subway is pretty functional, pretty good.
Is it safe?
Not always.
Nothing comes close to Japan or Hong Kong.
Even Europe.
I went to Vienna and Barcelona this summer.
Very easy to navigate, very safe.
I don't know.
America do better, just in general.
There is a hidden bonus reason in here though,
which is if you like entertainment on a subway,
New York also and Boston might have you covered.
Define entertainment.
You can have a whole jazz performance on those subways.
You can even have a whole gymnastics routine.
They will be casually like Juilliard students.
No big deal.
Sometimes it is actually kind of interesting.
I have to say the only place where I had very fearful experience in subway
was in Chicago, not in New York.
And I was in Chicago only for like half a year.
So do what you will with that situation.
Not the East Coast.
Exactly, not the East Coast.
四季の変化とその影響
Point 2 kind of relates back to what we talked earlier in the previous episode.
That we have real four seasons.
You know?
It might be because I am Japanese,
but I like the fact that there are four seasons.
I like the fact that there are different characters.
Especially the most...
And then the winter ends, comes spring.
And I realize everyone is like 20-30% happier.
Everyone is 20-30% nicer.
I am happier.
And I was like, what is happening?
It is like all the sunlight, the flower blooming, everything was just like,
what is this?
Like why is the world suddenly a better place?
And I realized, could this be?
気候と天候の比較
Yeah, exactly.
Could this be?
Could this be the so-called seasonal effect?
Something like that.
Of course.
And I realized after it ended.
Oh, maybe that was seasonal effect of the sort.
Which is real.
So anyone who is in higher latitude than New York
or anything above,
take your vitamin D's,
get as much sunlight as you can.
Especially when you are doing experiments,
you end up not being able to bathe for a whole day.
Yes, that happens.
If that kind of month lasts for about two months,
you get really energetic.
Yes, that's true.
I was in a laser lab,
so even if I shut out the window with a blackout curtain,
the light wouldn't come in for a second.
It was always pitch black.
I think that was probably because of the field I chose.
But compared to Tokyo,
does New York always feel cloudy in the winter?
Or is there sunlight?
It's sunny when it's sunny.
This is probably different from Europe.
It's not that different,
but in England, Denmark, and the Netherlands,
it's not that cold.
It's not as cold as New York,
it's not as cold as minus 10 degrees,
but there are a lot of cloudy days.
There aren't a lot of sunny days.
So that makes me feel down.
Even if it's cold,
but Boston is snowing always, right?
You know,
I was just thinking about this comparison.
I think...
Two years ago,
I went to Nagano.
The weather in Nagano was winter.
They had a blizzard.
They had a real heavy snowstorm.
Nagano is a mountain region,
so it's not just cold,
it snows a lot.
When I was there,
my thought was,
it reminds me of home.
Boston, sometimes,
even though it's not a mountain region,
but just north of Boston,
there are more mountains.
Just west of Boston,
食文化の対立
there are mountains.
It's called the Appalachian Mountains.
That's true.
You need to go to Vancouver?
No, we need to go to...
Utah or something.
Yeah, I think that takes 5 hours by car.
Yeah, but from Boston,
it's an hour drive.
If you want a smaller one,
probably one hour.
If you want bigger ones,
maybe 2 or 3 hours.
You can get to bigger mountains from there.
Yeah, it's closer.
It's like the so-called
Koyogari in Japan.
There are a lot of Koyogari.
In North America,
there are a lot of Shinogari.
But on the east coast,
there is a forest of Koyogari,
for some reason.
It's really beautiful.
That's true.
I see your list, Lin.
Go fire away.
I just started putting things down
on this memo of ours here.
I love that it's all food-related.
It is all food, except the last one.
We'll get to that.
I was wandering through my brain
and looking things up and going,
what do people usually argue about
when it comes to the east coast
and the west coast?
The first one I thought of
was clam chowder.
It wasn't because of the two coasts,
but there are also different
clam chowders in the east coast.
There is white clam chowder,
the easiest version,
and red clam chowder.
Red clam chowder is the wrong one.
I'll get so many people
mad at me for this.
I have to agree with Len, though.
When I think about clam chowder,
it's the white one only.
The red one is a fake clam chowder.
I also have to say,
I had clam chowders in Seattle,
and I found it to be
a little too thick.
It's very creamy, very heavy.
The New England one
is a good mixture of
it actually feeling like a soup
instead of solid,
and still cozy, creamy.
I do like the Boston clam chowder.
That's the piece.
Now we have a comparison
from Asami as well.
I don't know if you guys
西海岸と東海岸の料理比較
have had clam chowders.
A very scientific and valid opinion.
Completely valid and objective.
Have either of you had
clam chowder in San Francisco?
I think we also have
New England style clam chowder.
Especially, we have rest
cafeteria.
Because this is the correct one.
Our cafeteria has New England style.
But personally, I actually
like the red one.
I like tomato, so...
Sorry.
Kick him from the call.
The red one is tomato, right?
Yeah, it's a tomato base.
I like tomato soup, so...
Actually, I think
San Francisco is also one of the cities
famous for
New England clam chowder.
But we don't have any chance
to get red one.
Actually, in my experience,
I have never tried
red clam chowder in this city.
I only know about the white one.
Okay.
It's okay. You don't need to know anymore.
That's it. You're good.
Okay, I know
true clam chowder.
Actually, Boston is good with
lobster, right?
Yeah, lobster is...
Boston and Maine.
When I visit Boston, I eat a lot of lobster.
It's alive lobster.
It's a good choice.
Nakamura-san is rich.
True.
I see on your list
a New York pizza.
Yeah, this is...
We don't have to hit all of these,
but as far as food is concerned,
New York pizza has a pretty strong position
as really good pizza.
And I'm not usually
happy elsewhere.
There is something about
New York pizza that hits different.
I agree.
The feature is specific
in New York pizza.
Compared to other city stuff.
Other stuff.
Big, flat, and oily.
Crispy.
Usually crispy, but it folds.
It has to be able to fold.
Like browned bottom with
crispy, crunchy sort of crust.
The ability to fold it.
So you have to fold it and then eat it.
Or some people will argue, right?
That sort of thing.
Minimum size is like...
It has to be at least
maybe 20cm
like radius, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's gotta be a big pizza.
20...
For example, a Neapolitan pizza
has a size where you can eat one by yourself, right?
Not like that.
One person
can eat one slice.
One unit.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I would agree with that.
There's something with flavor too,
but it's much harder to describe.
You can't fight.
Okay.
Let's move on to the fourth and last point.
Yeah, just jump to it.
This, I think, encapsulates
to me what
a New Yorker or such Bostonians are.
I put quotes around here
because I never found myself
saying it. I have heard
this phrase before, but I cannot pinpoint
where. But a lot of people
hear something of the version of
East Coast people are kind,
not always nice.
And...
I can totally understand this.
Like, you know, when you're walking
in the streets,
are they nice? Not always.
You know, they're kind of...
Well, everyone is going about their day.
They have their own mission
that they're going to.
I have had many,
many kind strangers
encounter in
New York City
where stuff like
I dropped an ID from my
pocket, and I wasn't even aware
that I dropped it. And somebody ran
after me a whole couple blocks, being like,
Miss, you dropped your ID.
Or, like, I was...
It was my first year in New York.
I wasn't going
home that year.
And I didn't have any
plans for Christmas. I didn't
think too much about it. Like, Christmas is not
that big of a deal for me, right?
But for my
New Yorker friends to be like, Oh no, you're
alone in Christmas? You have to come
and join us. They invited me
on the day of
to their family dinner.
Things like that.
And one more thing is like,
東海岸の親切さ
when you're an exchange student,
when you're in your department,
you usually have to go to dorms
during the summer break.
Even during the winter break.
When you're living in a dorm,
there's a summer school,
and the moment the final exam
is over, you have 24 hours to pack up
everything and then get out of here.
That's really fast.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's really like that.
But for people who live
in a dorm,
they bring their stuff home.
But for people who don't,
they have to rent a warehouse
and put their stuff in there.
And it's about two months
of summer break, so it's not
as much of a rent, but it's expensive.
And for international students,
that's a big problem.
If you're in trouble,
your friend will be like,
Oh, my family's
right over there,
so I'll put my scissors in there for you.
That's really nice.
I mean, friends are friends,
but people who aren't
really that close
will help you out.
I do believe that
East Coast people are very kind.
I'll just support first
that that phrase is all over the place.
For East Coast people.
I didn't just make this up.
This kind
versus nice type feeling.
We will be
pleasant, like smiling,
having a good time,
versus actually
helping you.
This tension
is very familiar to
me from how
people talk about
Nishikaigan.
I don't know exactly
how true I would say
it is, but I would say that at least
in supporting the
experience that Asami has had
for the East Coast,
I would say that is the
version.
On a day-to-day,
you're not necessarily going to get people
being happy and
smiling and, Oh, how are you?
What's going on? But you will
get help
if something is needed.
You'll even get little
exchanges that are
shorter, but they just feel
like, okay,
everything's fine here.
You're buying coffee or you're in line.
You think about it later in the day
and that was a lovely moment.
This, I think, especially
rings true because
especially
let's think about shop staff,
your barista,
your cafe people, restaurant people,
they might
be on a first go,
very book it up
how they want.
If you aren't ready
to fire out your order, they're like,
please, come on, hurry up.
They will give you that attitude.
But
there's usually
some kind of coffee cart
on the streets of New York
where people get their morning
coffees from. It's like a little
push cart and
usually just operated by one guy.
I usually
would go get coffee
because it's much cheaper than other cafes
to go
take it to my first class
in the morning, which was
Organic Chemistry 1.
It was 8.30 in the morning.
One time,
I guess I looked really sad or stressed
or something and the guy was like,
girl, you look like you need to eat something
and just gave me free donuts.
He doesn't know my name.
He just knows that I come here
every Monday, Wednesday,
Friday because that's when I have Organic Chemistry
lectures.
And maybe I look especially
disheveled and sad that morning.
But I remember thinking like,
oh my god, this is the best thing that
happened to me this week.
That's true.
I feel like
they're more friendly
from the east coast.
People from the west coast are usually
friendly.
They're always in a good mood.
They're super friendly.
They're very pleasant.
Especially shop staffs.
I just don't think they would give me free donuts.
Possibly.
Yeah.
We already
argued about such
people's atmosphere
in the west coast
in the previous episode
西海岸と東海岸の対立
in American Network.
But
I can't imagine
people in San Francisco
can give me
free donuts easily.
Right?
They're fun. They're probably
very pleasant
when you're buying stuff from them.
And they're not going to give you attitude
like, go hurry up.
Or if you're looking for change
and you fumble a little bit in your payment,
they're not going to like, at you.
But...
But...
they will also give you free donuts.
But I can't
imagine I can
spend usual days
with such a cool
attitude.
Okay. Cold.
I can see that it can be
a little bit
intimidating.
I think if you have
not a cold attitude, but if you
are also
driven just on your own
sort of direction,
then the environment
is really nice.
Because then you're like, everybody's doing their own thing
until we need to
help each other.
And then in that moment, we change.
We act.
That I think is the intended
feeling of that space.
But yeah. Maybe not
so much if it feels
kind of lonely
and separating.
Which it really could be.
I think it's very
isolating city
if you don't know how
to
find your own way.
It takes time to
feel like you're part of the city.
They don't make it
easy either.
But once you do,
once you break it in,
I think it's a
very kind and
humane people.
I think that's fair.
That's it for
our
West Coast, East Coast
feud.
I think
after listening to you guys,
I do feel like I should be a bit
nicer.
Kinder.
West Coast
stereotypes.
I feel like I have
sort of made
up a lot of things
based solely on
stereotypes.
Because I've never lived there.
I think it might be fun.
If I have to live in the States, I would still
prefer East Coast.
Maybe I'll come and
visit. It will be fun.
I know there are so many national parks
in the west side of the US
that I still haven't been to.
What do you feel, Len?
Do you still feel strongly about East Coast?
I think my strongest
opinion came out with the clam chowder,
didn't it?
So, Len
cares about food.
Very important things.
It was very, very important things.
Food is essential.
Yeah, essential.
Speaking of feud,
for Japanese people,
West Coast sounded more friendly.
Yes.
Well, I'm not sure how much was run-off
stereotype. I'm obviously
an East Coast, born and raised.
But then I moved to Japan
and that was pretty much a sign that
everything is a
stereotype and nothing is real.
You have to just keep adapting.
I would say, as far as
international community going,
especially from Japan or otherwise,
the West Coast
is definitely more convenient for
not just closeness but grocery
for community, for these things.
I wouldn't necessarily recommend
New England
if you're looking for those things
because it's more difficult
to find them.
I definitely don't miss paying
$5 for natto.
Yeah, right.
If you want it, it's going to cost you.
Yeah, that's a big difference
that I would not
even consider trying to argue for the East Coast on
that I didn't know.
It was really insightful to me.
And we didn't even get to talk about
all the other parts of America, which arguably
is a bigger part of America.
Very, very easily
arguably, in fact.
In fact, we only did a slice.
I mean, they're physically much
bigger than any of the places
that we've mentioned.
So my experience of
the U.S. is very different from
those who have, you know,
been to other parts of America.
Also, you know,
mine and Wada-san and
東海岸と西海岸の印象
Nakamura-san's experience of
the U.S. is like in a very
specific university setting.
And that's a whole other bubble
that is
not a normal part of America.
We've only lived in San Francisco
for a month,
but Nakamura-san, on behalf of Amigo,
what did you think of the East Coast?
Actually,
I stayed
in the East Coast for a month.
Oh, one month?
Yeah, actually.
You have done.
I think for Japanese,
maybe the West Coast
is a good start.
But I think
the East Coast is more, I feel like,
more, I would say,
American. I can feel more American
in the East Coast.
That's my opinion.
And also,
アメリカの多様性
I think if I miss
Japan, I can go
to the East Coast and feel the
seasonal stuff as well.
I think sometimes I can
go to the East Coast
as well.
To get, of course, a crumb chocolate as well.
The red one, you said.
That's the picture.
I also agree with his opinion
about
the West Coast is a very good start
for Japanese people.
Especially for me, I have never
been to
any other country,
including Europe,
America, or
other parts of Asia
before I came here.
So,
San Francisco is one of the
cities very kind
for such international
beginner people.
I agree.
It definitely makes a difference
because by the time I arrived to
New York as
an 18-year-old, I was already
fluent in English. It helped.
But it was funny that you mentioned this
because when I was first,
first couple months in New York,
my American friend asked me,
Asami, how do you like America?
I was like, you know, it's very America.
That was my impression.
I didn't mean it in a bad
or good way. It was just very different
from anything I've ever known before.
And my friend
was like, Asami, you're in New York.
That's like the least American place
in America.
I was like, oops.
Okay.
And then his shaking head is like,
yeah, Asami, what are you talking about?
No, no, no. I was actually
shaking my head at the sort of
least American place
in America.
I think that misses the point
that America is
like these little bubbles
of thing and it's also
this sort of connected tissue
of a country.
New York is New York.
It's one of the places
that are impacted by this American
feeling and thing, but it's also a lot
of other things in there.
Maybe not
some, but yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think
it was fun to kind of talk about
the differences
and what each of us like about
different places.
And there's a whole lot of places in the middle
that we didn't even get to talk about.
So if you're
curious about
perhaps spending
a chunk of your time in America,
I think traveling there and
living there is quite different.
The best thing
is to just kind of go,
see what happens, and
hopefully these two episodes,
one from us and one from
Amego-san, is going to be
some...
It gives you
a very brief insight
into some of these areas.
But very accurate
insight into clam chowders.
Which one is the correct one?
If you're basing your entire decision on
going to the U.S. off of clam chowder,
then now you know where to go.
Now you know where to go.
There's only one place.
Alright.
Well, thank you
to Nakamura-san and Wara-san for
coming to our episode.
エピソードの締めくくり
And please go listen to
the zehan of this episode,
which will be aired in Amego.
Hopefully,
within a close time period,
I guess the henshu people
gotta work hard.
True.
Alright, that's it.
Thank you so much!
That's it for the show today.
Thanks for listening, and find us
on X at
Eigo de Science. That is
E-I-G-O-D-E-S-C-I-E-N-C-E.
See you next time!
