物語の背景と設定
A while back, I think in one of the topics episodes talking about AI, I mentioned クララとお日さま by Kazuo Ishiguro, and you have said that you plan to read it, and I think you did.
Yes, I did.
So let's talk about it. But maybe before that, for listeners, I'll just like recap this. So this book was first published in 2021.
Spoiler alert as well. Like we might, I'm not gonna control many of my like things that I might remember as they pop up. So just if you want to read it.
But it's also not like a newly published book.
No, but I, you know, if you haven't read it before.
Yes, if you haven't read it, if you want to read it and don't want to go, like have tainted ears, then don't listen to this episode.
Right.
But if you don't mind a little spoiler, in my opinion, this book is like full of interpretation enough that it's not going to be too too spoilery.
You know, one will experience this book in a very different way than another person.
Sure. I can say that about any book in any book review. But just in case you want to preserve yourself, if you want to remain completely clean of understanding.
We will not shy away from spoiling you.
Right.
All right, you've been warned.
Summary.
So this book, Clara and the Sun, is set, according to Wikipedia, in the U.S. in an unspecified future.
The book is told from the point of view of Clara, a solar powered AF bracket artificial friend.
Right. Not what you might expect it to be, which is like cool AF, which is a different meaning.
Different AF, yes.
Clara is a solar powered artificial friend and who is chosen by Josie, the character, a sickly child to be her companion.
So in this book, in the world of this book, in this future dystopian United States, I guess it's full of pollution in this world.
And so everyone, like I think the population in general is on decline, which meant that if you do have a child, there's a lot more resources going into this individual children.
And one of the ways they have figured out is to have artificial friends for these children, because now these children are super sheltered, essentially homeschooled at home.
Like homeschool, not in a sense of like what's happening now, like some people are ongoingly homeschooled.
Right.
This is like a very like a notch away from that.
They are kind of completely insulated from the outside world and growing up in a very secluded life, which is why they've decided to have this solar powered humanoid as children.
I think it's like tween to teenage children's companion as a way to socialize children who are having to live this very isolated and secluded life.
The reason for that isolation is a big spoiler alert.
They undergo this kind of quote unquote procedure.
They call it lifting.
And this is basically some sort of gene modifications that people do to their children to make them intelligent, enhance their cognitive abilities, etc.
But it doesn't come at no cost.
It could be a lethal treatment.
But in this world, it sounds like most average to privileged kids get this lifting procedure done by their parents.
And as a result of that, they're, I think, immunocompromised.
They might be like more susceptible to bacteria and outside world and germs.
So they have to be at home.
And they need company.
This is something they don't, so they don't unpack it, right?
None of this is explicit, by the way.
The story is not about unpacking sort of the repercussions of something like genetic modification, the sort of real specific impacts.
It's glazed over because we see everything from the perspective of the artificial friend, right?
Clara.
Yes.
Thanks for putting that.
So I explained, I used a whole bunch of words to describe the setting of this world.
But none of this is sort of like explicitly told.
It's kind of like told in like a drip drip manner that I think Ishiguro does really well in other books as well by having unreliable narrator.
And in our case, it's Clara, the artificial friend.
Clara, I think it's like she's not human, so she doesn't experience the world in like human way.
But she's very humane, if that makes sense.
Yeah, there's, if we go to like the beginning of the book, there's inherently like a human focused nature to her actions.
クララの視点と設計
Because, you know, one might argue at the beginning that it is due to her design, right?
These, these androids and, you know, perhaps people to some extent in the novel are designed to be human focused, in particular children focused, and to help them sort of stave off loneliness.
Clara never questions about her desire to serve for children, who she may be, you know, like, she will be bought by a family to become a companion of a child.
She's like, in the book opens when she's in like a shopping, like a shop of these artificial friend shops, I guess, she's at the window, like the best spot.
You know, she's the shiniest, newest model and getting a lot of attention.
She can see the streets really well, and all of that.
And she like, like, from the get go, she's like, excited to join the family.
She doesn't question about why she wants to do that.
She just wants to do it.
Yeah, there's a sheer, like, just, I want to fulfill this role.
And that excites me, even so much as like when you mentioned the window, like the way that we spend a lot of the opening of the book is how, how much longing there is for being in the window.
For others, I think it's more about being spotted and bought.
For Clara, she wants that.
But I feel like they're also throughout this opening, pointing out that Clara seems to be somewhat different from the rest that she's, she's looking at other things, trying to learn something.
Yeah, so she's very observant, very intelligent, but also a little bit naive, I think, because she's, or at least it looks naive to human, the reader, because she doesn't experience the world.
In a human way, right.
I think there was a scene where she, like, talks about how she sees the world in like a series of boxes.
I imagine it to be something like, like a stop motion animation, like she sees it in like, you know, scenes, rather than like a continuous video of the sort of like a motion world.
And so already, you know, her perception is very different and whatnot.
So like, I think it's interesting how Ishiguro does a really good job, like, time to time reminding us that Clara is not human, you know, she's very emotional, very intelligent, whatnot.
家庭内の複雑なダイナミクス
And we slowly discover the relationship between these humanoid, solar powered artificial friends, and the role they play in this particular society.
And it's, it's like hard. I think this is the hard part of the book where like, like first, I would say like half or like three quarters of the book is spent on us slowly figuring out their dynamics, I think.
Yeah, it's very, yeah. All of the dynamics, right? There's like, I mean, even in the store, you're wondering exactly what's happening and like, the time passing is clear, but a little unclear.
You don't know exactly how we're going to arrive at the next point. You don't know what's happening with Josie who just appears once.
And then like, we're left with Clara kind of wondering if this person will return and like, yeah, yeah, then there's constant like you've thrown a naive if very curious, like artificial friend into a clearly complicated emotionally like sort of tension family, which we're only getting so much information on.
So we have to make a lot of predictions or guesses and extrapolations.
Like you already know, like, I think you start to see Josie and her mother have a somewhat of an odd relationship between the two of them.
And I think, and you also realize this like, strange kind of ritual they set up, they don't set up play dates, they set up socializing meeting, interaction meeting with other kids, right?
And other kids, and there's not many kids in the neighborhood.
But the few kids they do gather and try and sort of attempt to socialize these kids and the interaction meeting is like, from the depth of this uncanny valley of, you know, almost human interaction, but not really like these kids clearly don't know how to relate to one another.
And it's very odd.
And that's why Rick, the unlifted boy in the neighborhood, that is not really close, but like, he's one of the only kid in the vicinity.
And he gets treated very differently from the other kids at this interaction meeting, because he's not gone through lifting process.
And so that he is kind of, he's, for the lack of better word, like, you know, not genetically modified version of the kid.
クララの観察
So he acts as, we'll say in the interaction meeting, right, you get to see the type of clicks or like grouping that happens between even kids, right, which then is a whole other layer for Clara to try and parse because she's watching Josie experience different versions of Josie.
Right. And like, Rick clearly being upset and like, sort of rolling with it for some time, but then there are these changes when it's like, that's too much.
You know, all this emotion existing in the space between whatever lifting means, right, whatever that means to not be lifted.
Right. Yeah.
So like, and like the story kind of like, kind of keeps going in this slow burn fashion until I would say like, like the last one fourth of the book, a lot of things happen, a lot of sort of the hidden parts of her family, like this father showing up out of nowhere.
And Rick's father also appears out of nowhere.
Yeah.
Like, they have a lot of more sort of complicated.
They like sudden to me, it looked really sudden how Clara, like, discovered this, like, very targeted hater for a cooting machine, the like a spewing smoke machine.
To me, that felt very abrupt.
I don't know where she got this, like, strong hatred for the cooting machine.
Yeah, I, the only route we have, maybe it only makes sense, I'm thinking through it as, as I speak, right, where like, she has a relatively short amount of memory, shall we say, not, not that she can only store so much, but that like, the things she has seen from outside of the window is essentially a spiritual, almost religious fervor for the son, because it charges her, refreshes her.
Right.
And so anything that blocks it would thus be probably.
Okay.
Okay.
So like the polluting cloud that rocks the sun equals bad for her.
Right.
And that happened once or something at the store, I think.
And it was like this, I vaguely remember sensing, maybe it wasn't terror in that moment, but there was a will the sun come back type thing.
Right.
So I wonder if that played a role for the later stuff.
And her attempts to like, do what a human might, which is to understand the world, right?
Like, what is it that caused this bad thing to happen?
What is the thing that I have to do to make the good things happen?
And later, it becomes clear, right?
That that's, it was misdirected, right?
The scale of the problem, if the problem is these cooling machines that blow smoke into the atmosphere.
You know, there isn't just one.
Right.
Yeah.
And that that was like, Oh, my God, I realized I can't do that.
Right.
Yeah, that's true.
ストーリーの進行
That sort of like her childlike understanding of lack of scale.
Yeah.
I think it's sometimes frustrating me as a reader, because I was like, every time I try to let my imagination go and think about this world, I get pulled back into this confined way of looking at experiencing this world through Clara.
Oh, OK.
We were not done with that part yet.
And.
Oh, OK.
All right.
So it's like, I know that this book had raving reviews from critics.
Many of them, at least.
But I struggle to kind of enjoy until like the very end.
And then at the very end, I was like, OK, it was all leading up to this.
And then it kind of made it worth reading.
But I had to put down the book many times in between.
How was the experience for you?
That's.
I remember, I think I got through this during like traveling, so it was it was a bit maybe messier.
Right.
Yeah.
I would say I wish I wish I looked at my there was a note maybe I took somewhere because one of Kazuo Ishiguro's other books that I had read was not the one that he mentions is sort of thematically related.
Never let me go.
There was another one that was We Are Orphans, I think.
And that was the first one of his I read, which which I described as having this like extraordinarily slow and like not necessarily arduous, but definitely.
Definitely this slowness, this I'm laying out a story.
I'm laying out a story, I'm laying out a person for you.
And here it was like I'm laying out Clara for you as she tries to understand this family.
And I'm not telling you the reader because you don't know either.
クララの理解と愛の探求
Right. So you have to you have to feel this out with Clara first.
And when things start to snap into place, the rest will make sense.
But as far as pacing or that sense of like, what am I what am I doing here?
You really have to buy in upfront, trusting the author, trusting that piece.
So I would agree. I don't know if I had the same challenge because I might have expected some of it.
And I think I was interested in the way that this character Clara was written.
And so I was looking at like that sort of context.
So. But yeah, that that would be.
Yeah, I think that's the difference. I was not wholly interested in Clara herself.
Right. OK. Yeah. So I struggled.
But at the end, it's I'm like I can't remember.
But a lot happens in the end where like a lot of the secrets gets revealed.
A lot of tension is explored between Josie and Rick.
And then there's a little bit more sort of depiction of sun worship.
Yes. You know, Clara at the barn.
That scene was kind of. Not odd, but like to me also felt kind of abrupt as well.
Like I get that she like reveres sun, like you said, in this very spiritual way almost.
But like. Like I couldn't really see the motivation of her.
Like, you know, there was like a sudden maturity in her personality, like kind of praying for others and like praying for like she I think basically promises,
like, you know, if you save Josie now, Josie and Rick will love forever.
Yeah. Love each other forever. And I'm like, when did Clara learn anything about love?
Like I. Right. I was like so weirded out by that.
Yeah. I might have missed something.
No, I. Well, first, I think that the observation, though, that it seems to have been missed itself is somewhat telling.
Somebody could probably argue. I don't know if this is true. Right.
This is part of the discussion because there are questions about does Clara understand love by the end of the book?
And she's definitely attempting to question it because she's within a family dynamic.
She sees this like attempt to stay close to each other between Rick and Josie.
But how like that just doesn't seem to be working. I think there's a latching on of the term love at some point.
But I can't really remember when myself either. And there's a question of like, what does it mean?
Right. Do who loves who? Like what is the love that's existing in this in this space?
We mentioned briefly there were like discussion questions at the back of this book, you know, for for us book readers, I guess.
And a couple of them are definitely like, what is love? Right. Not in general, but like, you know, how does Clara see love?
What is love to Clara? What is love to different characters?
Right. Exactly. Or a question of, you know, I think one of them was, you know, do you think that Josie loves Clara?
Right. Or even the other way around. And it's like, OK, right.
So there's, you know, what you have to confront those questions.
And I think when it comes to that religious fervor, there seems to be this expected exchange.
Somehow there is a decision that there must be an exchange for something to happen.
Right. There must be a give and take of some kind.
And I don't actually know where that lesson comes from. I can't I can't remember where I would sit as is where the lesson originates.
That's true. But I think what you said about earlier that this seems almost like a very primal feeling.
Right. Like where humans try to explain the things they cannot understand and use sort of spiritual figure as a means to explain this unexplainable.
And to me, that's what it felt like.
Her relationship with the sun, you know, I think was explained through that almost reflexive response to the sun because she physically gets charged up and becomes more energetic.
And, you know, if she doesn't understand the system of her solar battery, then I think she's like, wow, I'm under the sun and I feel so much better.
Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And she's like, you know, Josie must also feel the same way under the sun.
Right. Because she feels great because she's solar panel charged. But she doesn't know that Josie is not solar charged.
Right. Yes. Which is a huge. Can we talk about I don't know if I'd call it an elephant in the room, but you know, a story is a story.
That's it for the show today. Thanks for listening. And find us on X at Ego de Science. That is E I G O T E S C I E N C E. See you next time.
