日本語学習を体系化した方法
英語でサイエンスしナイトのスパルタ日本語学習【Alessandro Takeshi Part 2】。 For transcription, preserve clearly audible
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英語でサイエンスしナイトのスパルタ日本語学習【Alessandro Takeshi Part 2】。 For transcription, preserve clearly audible
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英語でサイエンスしナイトのスパルタ日本語学習【Alessandro Takeshi Part 2】。 For transcription, preserve clearly audible
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英語でサイエンスしナイトのスパルタ日本語学習【Alessandro Takeshi Part 2】。 For transcription, preserve clearly audible
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英語でサイエンスしナイトのスパルタ日本語学習【Alessandro Takeshi Part 2】。 For transcription, preserve clearly audible
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英語でサイエンスしナイトのスパルタ日本語学習【Alessandro Takeshi Part 2】。 For transcription, preserve clearly audible
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英語でサイエンスしナイトのスパルタ日本語学習【Alessandro Takeshi Part 2】。 For transcription, preserve clearly audible
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英語でサイエンスしナイトのスパルタ日本語学習【Alessandro Takeshi Part 2】。 For transcription, preserve clearly audible
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英語でサイエンスしナイトのスパルタ日本語学習【Alessandro Takeshi Part 2】。 For transcription, preserve clearly audible
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英語でサイエンスしナイトのスパルタ日本語学習【Alessandro Takeshi Part 2】。 For transcription, preserve clearly audible
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英語でサイエンスしナイトのスパルタ日本語学習【Alessandro Takeshi Part 2】。 For transcription, preserve clearly audible
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英語でサイエンスしナイトのスパルタ日本語学習【Alessandro Takeshi Part 2】。 For transcription, preserve clearly audible
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英語でサイエンスしナイトのスパルタ日本語学習【Alessandro Takeshi Part 2】。 For transcription, preserve clearly audible
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英語でサイエンスしナイトのスパルタ日本語学習【Alessandro Takeshi Part 2】。 For transcription, preserve clearly audible
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英語でサイエンスしナイトのスパルタ日本語学習【Alessandro Takeshi Part 2】。 For transcription, preserve clearly audible
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英語でサイエンスしナイトのスパルタ日本語学習【Alessandro Takeshi Part 2】。 For transcription, preserve clearly audible
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英語でサイエンスしナイトのスパルタ日本語学習【Alessandro Takeshi Part 2】。 For transcription, preserve clearly audible
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英語でサイエンスしナイトのスパルタ日本語学習【Alessandro Takeshi Part 2】。 For transcription, preserve clearly audible
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英語でサイエンスしナイトのスパルタ日本語学習【Alessandro Takeshi Part 2】。 For transcription, preserve clearly audible
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So that was basically your first time learningJapanese just by coming to Japan.
Basically, yeah. After I had decided I wanted tolearn Japanese, I started talking to my mom in
Japanese more.
But like really basic stuff. It wasn't until Ifirst like arrived in Japan that I started really
trying to systematize my learning and like get it.
What was your method?
Yeah, um, a lot of it was just spaced repetition.
Um, I, like, as soon as I realized after leavingquarantine, getting out of the hotel finally, and
being out in Tokyo and just having this feeling oflike, yeah, this is it, you know, this is what I
wanted.
And I can easily commit right now to doing thisfor like decades.
Like, I don't feel, I'm not worried I will pourmyself into learning Japanese and regret it
because I leave.
I kind of knew immediately like, learning Japanesereally intensely right now is a good idea for me.
And so I was, I think I was very lucky to havethat certainty immediately because it gave a lot
more direction and helped me do what I needed todo.
But yeah, once I sort of made that decision, Isaid like, okay, I need to be a little systematic
about this.
And I need to have like something that's like veryconsistent and very routine.
And so that's when I started learning about likespaced repetition systems and like Anki.
Like wani-kani is like a sort of like great way todip your toes into spaced repetition because they
make the whole thing for you.
That was like sort of what got me into it.
会話から語彙を増やす現在の習慣
And it just gave me like for an hour of likeflashcards every day in the morning.
I could learn all the like jo-yo kanji, the firstlike 2000 that you need to learn in about a year
and a half.
And then you just never have to worry about kanjiever again.
And so I realized, okay, I don't ever want tolike, I don't ever want kanji to be hard.
So let's just get that done in a year and a half.
And then basically continuing that after Ifinished with that, rolling that over into like
Anki, the custom flashcards system where like anyvocabulary that I wanted to learn, I would
basically make a deck for.
And then at this point, this is actually themethod I still use to this day.
It's now like I've been studying for five yearsnow, I guess.
Five years this October.
Yeah, yeah.
And so it's exactly the same for like, while I wasstill taking the JLPT, I did some focus study.
I used some textbooks for that.
But like I finished N1 like after three years.
And so for the past like two years, it's been justI do exactly one thing to study.
And that is like any time in conversation I don'tknow a word, I write it down.
And then I have a list of all my words.
And then I find sentences that use those words andI make flashcards for them.
And then every morning I do like, at this point,it's like 70 flashcards, however many for just as
new words are put in.
I will say this method like only works aftergetting fluent enough that like in most
conversations you know all the words.
You gotta get all basics, yeah.
But basically going from like quote unquote fluentto like somewhere deeper to like closer to like
trying to get to a native level one day.
I found that was the way to keep it like basicallysaying like being immersed all the time, like
ambiently provides an incredible benefit.
Sure, but I think you can like multiply thatbenefit by having a systematic method that makes
those conversations more than just the experiencein that moment.
Where like then it is when you're trying tomemorize like new information, it's always good
when you have a connection to a certain word.
And so like, so for me, like every word that I seea flashcard with, I have sometimes I forget the
initial connection, but it came from my life, youknow.
It came from like, I was talking to someone, theysaid something and I didn't understand it.
And so I heard it in a certain context.
And then like the next morning, it's already in myflashcard rotation.
And so like I find I learned those ones prettyquickly.
I mean, this is by far like getting to N1 level inthree years is by far like the most efficient
Japanese learning starting from zero that I'veheard of, which is crazy.
But it obviously comes to like, you know, thediligence and sort of, you know, doing this daily,
right?
Like keeping tabs on the words you've never heardand like making it and making it your routine.
And like, I guess that kind of discipline justlike came from music training.
I guess it's just like, you know, these kind ofthing, like repetitive motion doesn't bother you.
That and just like necessity, honestly.
Like I think a degree of like, I don't think I'veever like excelled in that type of studying in my
life before.
That was the first time where like I actually didsomething from like studying, studying, you know,
like when you imagine studying like it's that it'sbooks and it's flashcards and stuff.
I had never found that kind of success with ituntil that.
And I think for me, a lot of that was likenecessity, which came from like, you know, after
having decided that this is where I live now.
Yeah.
Wanting to like become an adult again, because Ithink like so much of the world is like your world
子どもに戻る感覚と自己像
is as much as you can talk about.
And I was sort of deliberately putting myself inlike Japanese only environments.
And so I was feeling just like the kid in the roomall the time.
And I realized like the dream isn't to live inJapan as a permanent arrested development, like
kid adult.
The dream is to, you know, eventually get my wholelife and be able to express all the facets of
myself.
Yeah, exactly.
And so like, I will say just because it'sinteresting, there was a bit of relief to being a
kid for a little bit where it's like living in theStates post college.
I had very complicated relationships with lots ofpeople and such an adult way of living.
You know, like I was so, so many ways thatdifferent people think about other people and so
many layers of like things that you can just havevarious social stresses about.
Like in having a complicated adult social life,you know, all those things suddenly, that's just
not my life anymore.
Like, yeah, I keep in touch with people, but likeit's not like the social life that is when I go
outside, like suddenly was like reduced to likebaby mode.
And so like I could only comprehend very simplethings.
I wasn't going to pick up on subtext for the firstfew years.
And so like my emotional range, like I basicallygot like a two year vacation from all the complex
emotions of adulthood.
Not a total one, occasionally they seeped in, butyeah, it was sort of like a break from being an
adult and just being a kid for a little bit.
Knowing like, I'll enjoy the break from a certaintype of adult anxiety that if it were to continue
longer, I think would produce a worse thing.
I think being stuck as a kid forever would make mecrazy, but it was a nice break in that way as a
limited thing, you know?
言語学習の心理的な負荷
Yeah, and this is really encouraging, I think,because I think for a lot of adult language
learners, whether that's English, like I wouldassume most of the listeners are or something.
It's like, I think going back to that kid state islike can be really uncomfortable for some people.
And for me, I like, so I seriously started pickingup English again, out of necessity when I was
like, you know, shopped into international schoolat around 14, I would say.
And I distinctly remember my main motivation waslike, I'm not this stupid, because I can only
express so little.
And I regarded myself as an intelligent being. Butin English, I was not. And this gap needed to be
closed immediately. Right. So that was mymotivation.
But you're describing, it's like you kind ofembrace that kid mode and like enjoy the process.
To a degree, right. I mean, I'm sure it wasfrustrating at times. But like, I think that's a
different way of going about it, right?
Like, it doesn't just have to be frustrating.Like, it can be kind of freeing. And, you know,
you get to just like reduce the complexity of yoursocial life, because you're learning a language.
And that's your primary reason for socializing.And people also kind of treat you in that way.
It's like, oh, he's not gonna get like everythingI'm about to say. But like, that's okay. Right.
I think, I mean, very much is like trying to seethe silver lining on the frustration, because I
definitely, I absolutely relate to exactly whatyou said about the frustration.
Yeah, I think it more was, I think I came to thataround on that feeling out of like a necessary
optimism, because it's my life.
And like, because it's like, I know, like gettingfluent in a language is gonna be, it's not a
matter of hours. It's not an hour of weeks. It'slike a matter of years. At some point, I was gonna
have to like make peace with, you know,
Being bad at it.
With being bad and like, feeling like, you know,feeling not smart and feeling like all these
things in my head, they're not, I can't get themto the other person. And I'm gonna be that way for
a while, which is gonna make me crazy.
So like, I think I had to like, because of howlong I had to be living that way, I had to come up
with a positive interpretation or just be nothappy. And so like,
Right, right.
I do think, thinking a lot about what you'resaying about like, how it was tied to like your
own like self image. I do think something that isnot, or maybe it is spoken about with language
learning, and I just haven't heard it as much as Ithink it could be said.
Is that like, I think there is, because what yousay is maybe most of your personality. Like,
there's, you know, other like body movement andall these other things, but like really what you
say is
At least most of your like perceived
Yeah, so much of your personality and who you areis like, what you say and how you say it. And
like, for that reason, I think like the process oflanguage learning has this inevitable, deeply
psychological, deeply emotional aspect to it whereI don't think you can go about learning a language
and not have to face some like difficult emotionalaspects of yourself.
I think that necessarily comes up. And I thinklike any conversations about language learning is
always, always in the background are people's likepsychological complexes and their feelings and the
ways that they've built their sense of their self.
And so I think like, it's very normal to berunning into those things. And to have complex
relationships with them. Sometimes like I feltwhere like my, my self image of needing to be
eloquent, and like, not wanting to die as anineloquent person, like I have to get there again,
is like, very deeply rooted in like a negativefeeling.
But it pushed me real hard. So I have like thiscomplex relationship with it where it's like, it's
a fuel. It definitely got me, it got me goingwhere I wanted to go and it got me there fast.
Maybe there's more untangling to do there. Butlike, I think everyone has that. It's all very
much depends on your relationship with thelanguage you're learning and your relationship
with yourself before you started.
And yeah, it's you during the time that you'regoing to for sure through the Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah. Then you watch like the whole arc oflike going from zero to like, yeah, that's right.
Yeah, I saw a lot of his
That's astonishing.
That's the story though, right? I think the waythat you described it, I remember us talking about
essentially this framing, right? Because it's aworldview shifting, right? What parts of it do you
accept? And how do you how do you position it in away that you accept it?
Right. I think we had a couple of chats to it atvarious marked points, right? Because the amount
of effort that you dug in on on this study, Imean, really took up a lot of the time and energy
that you had.
It was a lot of my brain. Just like all mythoughts, like for a lot of the time for sure.
And it's, you know, this, the little samplemoments, I think, were moments in which I think
both of us, I was not nearly studying as heavyduty as you were, but but the moments that we
connected were also moments where we realized thatother part.
So I think the way you described the now you'resort of the adolescent, the child trying to get to
adulthood as fast as possible. But when we happento come together, right, or like I imagine with,
you know, with others as well within our friendgroup, right, that we'd sort of had from, you
know, Gaijin wandering around Tokyo.
This, this moment would sometimes happen whereit's like, and now we are at real high level,
right? We are, there's no middle ground of justkind of casual conversation. It's as if you
immediately go to something that's like reallydeeper to chew on in that moment, conceptually,
sort of ideologically, linguistically, becauseit's as if you're starving for it.
And that I think was maybe the, the other side,right, of trying to have this optimistic worldview
is it was it's hard, right? Because you're holdingthat, while knowing that when you do reenter a
space, you have this other personhood.
There's something that you're wanting, right atthe same time. And I say this with the shared
experience and also with myself experiencing itfairly regularly. So yeah, yeah.
学ぶ目的と強度は人それぞれ
I mean, language learning is hard. I think we justhave to like, remember that.
Yeah, like just, you know, I mean, I try to remindmy students of that, but it doesn't necessarily
help all the time, right? Like, yeah, this ishard, guys. Yes, we know. But like, it still
sucks.
Yeah, you just don't, I don't want it to be hardnow, because I have things to do, you know?
Which, which is the big thing, right? Like you,you had that core motivating sort of sense of
certainty. Yeah, for a lot of people, right. And Istill think, you know, in the language learning
community, as you kind of hinted at what thingsshould be talked about, you know, an awareness
that not everybody's diving into this with apsychological positioning that says, I am using
that, like, this is going to be part of myexpression.
Right, right. And also, I think, because they'vebeen told to, and that that's fine. It's
familiarization. And then you can make a decisionlater. Yeah, right. But those are very different
positions. So, yeah.
Yeah, and not everyone who's learning a newlanguage, like how I'm trying to pick up Cantonese
is like, trying to sort of, with the same level ofintensity or discipline, like, you know, going at
it, like, I know that this is not going to be myprimary language ever.
Yeah. But like, I would still like to learn and,you know, get by around town without having to use
English, because I think, like you said, it opensup a whole different world for me living in Hong
Kong. And, um, yeah, it's just like, it'ssomething I would like to do. But like, I am not
going to like, like, this is not like a ride ordie mission for me.
Yeah, for the next foreseeable future. Right. Andthat's okay. Yeah, there's a different way to
interact with language. But it is amazing whatyou've sort of achieved in the, you know, such a
short amount of time from what it sounds like.Yeah, that's, that's really, and it's, it's, I
don't know, I think it's, it's nice to know thatit's hard, but when like, done with like, the
right motivation, and like, you know, and also,maybe like the method that works for you, it can.
Like really produce a result that you can be proudof. And, you know, you are clearly motivated
enough to continue doing that. So yeah. Wow. Yeah,it's always there. You know, I think, I definitely
agree with what you're saying about like, your,your relationship to language learning can be at
any level, depending on like, your goals and like,your situation and what's your, how you imagine
you would like to use the language in the future.
And my, my approach, I, I definitely understandmy, my life experience and what I've done lies on
like a certain extreme end of the spectrum, where
Just, just a little close extreme, you know.
Where it was, you know, it was a rare circumstanceto go to be,
to have to live in a target language that you'revery serious about, and have nothing in. Like, the
circumstance of coming to that moment, I think iswhat made it kind of like rare and unusual to, to
like, be very serious, but also be at zero. Ithink that that, that is like, can only come from,
like, kind of being dropped in a very differentplace all of a sudden and suddenly just be like,
okay, new life now.
Which, which by, by no means does anyone else haveto do. I loved it. I'm glad I did it.
But you know, this is a decision that can simplybe said, no.
Yeah, yeah.
But, but in making it, you've done something, youknow, that honestly, right, very few people tend
to do something like that. And when you arrive init, you make these decisions, you say, well, in
order to do all the stuff that I might want to do.
Yeah, yeah.
All the places that you want to be involved in allthe stuff that you enjoy before. Yeah, maybe that
changes your level of motivation.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, I'm excited for your, you know, Japaneseside to, you know, continue aging.
Yeah, me too.
Experience that you will, like, continue to haveand, you know, layer over your past selves.
You should have one of those little like heightmarking things, you know, like,
Yeah, I don't know how you would do it.
Like, I do want that visualization, though, youknow?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So maybe,
『坊っちゃん』への挑戦
Like, maybe, maybe by the number of Natsume Sosekiyou get through, or like,
Oh man, you were reading that early on.
I went for, immediately after passing N1, I wentstraight for Bocchan. And I will admit I failed.
Like, I made it like 70, 80 pages in, but it wasjust like, so many word lookups, like per page.
And I was like, this is like, it's, it's so, like,the energy cost is something I became like super
aware of, of just like, how many calories am Iburning per page of like brain, my brain like
overclocking itself to like get through the pageand realizing just like, oh, like, after like five
pages, I'm like, done for the day.
Like, I've added 200 flashcards after five pages.And I think I need to stop.
My day is over, I have to like, eat a meal orsomething. But it's like, I just ate before and I
spent like 45 minutes doing this. And like, nowI'm just like, well, I have to, I have to move.
This is like before work.
This is yeah, like, this section of this day can'tgo on any longer because like, the brain is fried
now. So like, I have to, I have to be doingsomething else and realizing, okay, yeah, at this
rate. I think maybe now I could give it anothershot. But yeah, just thinking about Natsume
Soseki. Yeah, Bocchan beat me. That was hard.
I wanted to relate to it because you know, aboutlike, being an English teacher and also like being
like out in the countryside. I was sort ofrelating it to my own like, post college years of
like, the, you know, the main character and Ithink we have very different personalities, but
sort of like being thinking of oneself as like anall sort of like rough and tumble sort of like,
like being in a super like, you know, going fromlike the city or like from I felt sort of like,
his experience of going from like Tokyo toShikoku, I felt a weird analogy of going from like
college to just like rural United States, like noncollegiate world of suddenly being like, oh, all
my ideals and all like my loftiness sort of has tolike, meet reality. And like sort of a rude
awakening. I felt like, oh, I'm so excited toconnect to that theme. And I was like, yeah, I'm
not ready.
Oh, yeah. I mean, it is it is a coming of the agestory. Yeah, you know, and and maybe in a way
you're ready to come to the age as well. It'sworth noting. I was I was reading that as like a
Japanese like three year old. Yeah, exactly. Nownow you're age appropriate. That's it. Mark the
books that you've read.
学ぶ理由と音楽活動
Well, thank you, Alessandro for this reallyinsightful, you know, and very fresh perspective,
because this is not long ago that you had you werezero years old Japanese baby. So thanks so much
for sharing this. I think this was reallyinteresting. I mean, I thought it was super
interesting, because, you know, I forgot what it'slike to not be able to speak English.
Which is fair. So that's the goal, right? Yeah,that is the goal. You get good and then you get so
good. You forget about you forget how you gotthere. You know, you want to you want to start
getting to that point of being like, you know, butit's not that hard. Yeah, yeah. I remember
struggling. I remember the pre English Asami days.Yeah. But it is a while to think that, you know,
you know, I wouldn't have gotten to know most ofmy friends if I wasn't speaking English.
That's so true. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that'strue. All right. Well, thank you. And again, we'll
put all of your contact information in the shownotes. So we'll check Alessandro out if you have
any music. I should say, yeah, I'm working on anew album. I think the album isn't gonna come out
until like, probably beginning of next year. Butlike, I got some singles on the way soon. So like
mixed English, Japanese lyrics as well. So ifyou're interested in that intersection of the
those languages, those cultures, you're gonna bethe next Utada Hikaru going back and forth in the
poetic world of Japanese and English.
We've set a high bar immediately.
I'm giving you a high expectation here.
It doesn't sound like we've set any low bars inthis chat.
I'll do what I can.
No, absolutely looking forward to that. Thank youfor sharing. Thank you for all this. I hope
everybody feels inspired in some way, actually,because I think that this
seek out what it is that you feel you want tolearn the language for. It's the only way to sort
of change that motivation.
All right. All right.
Thanks for listening. Bye.
That's it for the show today, folks.
I hope you enjoyed our full outro and intro byAlessandro Takeshi.
Please take a look for his information in theinformation box.
And you can find us, as usual, at eigodescience.
See you next time.
