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Okay, so Goma-san, we talked a lot mostly about muscles and bodybuilding and gym going, but
you have your own research. You mentioned fishery and stuff, but what exactly is your research?
So I do a lot of fish migration studies, and I really like eels. Are you guys familiar with eels?
They're like snake-like fish. Yeah, I mean, I like eating eels, but do you guys know where
they spawn, where they are born? I don't even know if they're a river fish or a sea fish.
See? It's like so embedded in our culture, but we don't know a lot about their ecology. Isn't that
kind of interesting? That is, because we eat them. We probably have been eating them for a long time.
So the main themes are eels and fish migration. Asami-san, you said earlier that you don't know if eels are a river fish or a sea fish, right?
Where do you think they're born? Wait, but if it's like salmon, if it's like going to the river or the sea,
I think they're born in the river, right? No?
It's the opposite. It's the opposite of salmon. Asami-san said that salmon are born in the river, grow up in the sea, and then come back to the river.
It's called a soka kaiyuu. Soka kaiyuu means to climb a river.
Oh, that's a really difficult word.
In English, it's called an anagrami, but eels are born in pretty shallow places.
Shallow?
Yeah, they're born in Guam.
Oh, damn. Vacation babies?
That's right. They party a little in Guam. Do you know where Guam is? It's pretty south, isn't it?
It might be about the same latitude as Hong Kong.
That's right. They're born in Guam's West Mariana Trench.
They lay eggs there, and they're really strong.
They ride on the northern equatorial current, which is a current heading west.
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Then they go to the Philippines, change to the Black Sea, land in the north, and come to Japan.
It's a really long distance. It's about 3,000 kilometers.
So, rather than swimming, they ride on the ocean current.
When they were little babies, they didn't have an eel-like shape.
It's called a leptocephalus fairy.
What? Fairy? Fairy?
A baby?
So they're born when they're little?
That's right. It's not a fairy. It's a larva.
Larvae, leptocephali.
It's called a leptocephalus larvae.
They're like leaf-like.
They look like Yanagi leaves.
They have a shape that's easy to be affected by the ocean current.
So they ride on the Black Sea, land in the river in Japan,
and that's where they first get to eat river fish.
So they're everywhere.
So the eels you can catch in Japan are mostly from that route?
The eels you can catch in Japan?
There's only one eel breeding ground in Japan.
Oh, that's the only one?
Are they all from the same place?
They're all from Guam.
It's kind of lame, isn't it?
It's lame, isn't it?
Eels are pretty old-fashioned, aren't they?
I don't know if they're old-fashioned, but let's just say they are.
So they come into the river, and they grow in the river for about 10 years.
The longer ones take about 10 years.
That's where most people catch eels.
Does it take 10 years to catch an eel?
Right now, it's pretty common to catch farmed eels.
Farmed eels come from the Kuroshio River.
Have you ever seen a white-tailed eel?
It's like a small, transparent eel.
It's like a baby.
White-tailed eels are caught in nets
around the riverside,
and they're put in a farmed pond.
So they grow really fast,
and that's how they're caught.
But natural eels take about 10 years to live.
Wow.
So when you're eating natural eels,
you're eating eels that have grown 5 or 10 years older?
That's right.
Farmed eels grow a little faster, though.
I feel like I understand the difference in price now.
Oh, really?
I mean,
if you're growing one eel,
I mean,
if you order it in a box,
there's about half an eel.
I don't know if it's one eel,
but there's about half of it.
That's a lot of eel.
And then,
what?
You can only grow one eel
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for two meals
for 10 years, right?
That's right.
Isn't that a lot of luxury?
Yeah, you're right.
It doesn't take 10 years to grow a wild eel.
Yeah, it doesn't take 10 years to grow a wild eel.
Yeah, it doesn't take 10 years to grow a wild eel.
It takes about 3 months to grow a bird.
Yeah, and it takes a lot of time to grow a tuna,
but you can get a big one,
so you can eat it for many meals.
Yeah, that's right.
But eel is
probably the only edible part, right?
Yeah, that's right.
Wow, it's so cheap.
Yeah, but
when it takes 10 years,
eel is not yet
a complete adult.
What? Not yet?
Yeah, it's not an adult yet.
Eels are weird.
It's called a yellow eel.
It's yellowish.
It's yellowish.
It's yellowish.
It's like brown.
It's called a yellow eel,
but it's not fully matured yet.
It's not fully matured yet.
After that,
after 10 years,
it becomes a silver eel.
See?
You have to go back to the shallow place again.
Oh, by yourself this time?
This time,
there is no tidal current,
so you have to swim back
to the shallow place
which is 3,000 km away by yourself.
Now, yellow eels
have a shape suitable for the river.
For example, fins
are not big,
and you don't have to be good at swimming.
On the river,
there are few droppings,
and eels are big,
so you can't eat them
because they are too big.
But when you go to the sea,
there are many things bigger than eels.
Like sharks and tuna.
So you have to prepare for that.
So you have to prepare for that.
You have to go through a process
called silver hair.
From a yellow eel,
it turns silver.
It turns metallic.
You may not have seen this before.
You are eating a yellow eel,
so if you go through this process,
your eyes get really big,
and your fins get really big,
and your body
literally turns metallic.
All of this
turns into a sea mode.
All of this
turns into a sea mode.
To go to Guam,
you turn into a sea mode
and go down the river.
So you have to bulk up
to go back to your hometown
and go back to your hometown
and go back to your hometown
You really have to be stylish
to go to Guam.
You really have to be stylish
to go to Guam.
I didn't know that.
They have a big
life cycle you know.
They have a big life cycle you know.
It all came from Guam.
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It all came from Guam.
I didn't think of them
as long driving fish.
I thought they were the type
So you were born in the river, grow up in the river, and die in the river, right?
Yeah, it was kind of like the image of my cousin on the soil.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So that's what it was like.
Luckily, at the time of the end of the war,
there was a group called Unagi no Koukai.
As I mentioned earlier,
they were the first group to collect eel eggs in 2009.
It was a group called Tsukamoto Sensei.
They were really lucky.
They had a chance to go on a boat.
They were able to go to the South Pacific
to collect eel eggs and leptocephalus faeces.
I think it was in 2017.
It was a group that went to the South Pacific.
I'm a marine biologist,
but I'm not good at sailing.
You're not good at it?
I'm really good at sailing,
but I have to cross the Kuroshio River on a boat.
Yes, yes, yes.
It shakes a lot when I cross the Kuroshio River.
I'm already sailing.
It's the max.
It's like, put out what you're going to put out.
I said I'd crossed the Kuroshio River.
It was a three-month voyage.
Three months?
Yes, it was a three-month long voyage.
The rest of the time, I was on the boat collecting eel eggs.
But the engine broke down.
Oh, no.
So I had to go back.
I crossed the Kuroshio River again and returned to Japan.
It's almost the Kuroshio River.
Yes, it's almost the Kuroshio River.
I only went around the Kuroshio River for a few days,
and when I got back, I had to go back again.
So I crossed the Kuroshio River again.
I crossed the Kuroshio River three times.
Wow.
Yes, I crossed the Kuroshio River and got drunk.
What's hard is that when you're looking for eel eggs,
you have to look through a microscope.
You have to look through a small microscope in a shaking boat.
The hurdle is high.
Right?
So you have to look through a small microscope while you're drunk.
When you're drunk, you don't want to do that.
It's the hardest thing to do when you're looking through a small microscope.
I remember it was really hard.
How was the eel village?
It was beautiful.
It was beautiful.
It's a place worth going to, isn't it?
Do you know what a eel is?
It's quiet.
It's like a mirror.
It's very calm.
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It's like a mirror.
It's warm, but it's very quiet.
It's a place where it suddenly starts to rain.
Is it because it's a tropical area?
It's like a school.
It's like a school, but it gets sunny again.
And then it gets quiet again.
It was a fantastic place.
That's amazing.
When you do biological research, there are field trips like that.
There are.
Three months is quite a long time.
Do you know that you can't walk when you're on a ship for three months?
I thought so.
I was wondering what to do because it was going to be a long story.
I think that's enough.
If you're going to cut it here, let's cut it here.
I personally want to ask.
What were you doing during that time?
About muscle training?
Yeah.
I couldn't do muscle training, so I did a lot of training on the ship.
And I might have been squatting with my legs.
There were people who were with you.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Surprisingly, everyone is free on the ship.
If I say, why don't you do some muscle training?
But after all, it's not enough nutrition and you've gotten thinner.
Maybe I got thinner.
So I get off the ship in Tahiti or something.
I think I got really thin.
I haven't been working out for three months.
Three months is tough.
I can't even do muscle training.
It might be a little impossible.
Right?
Was it okay to throw it like this?
It's perfect.
That's it for part 2 of the collaboration with Kouma-san from Muki Muki Fufu.
There will be part 3 and that's our last part, so stay tuned.
