Merlee Jamieのキャリアの転機
This is Rainomoto's podcast, The Creative Mindset.
Hi everyone, welcome to The Creative Mindset, a podcast about what the future holds at the
intersection of creativity and technology. I am Rainomoto, the founding partner of I&CO,
a global innovation firm based in New York, Tokyo and Singapore.
Today's guest is Merlee Jamie, one of the very few creative leaders from Asia recognized on
the global stage and the founder of Misfits Camp as well as Jamie HQ in the Philippines.
In this episode, we dive into the turning point in her career which came only two years ago when
she realized that one of her young relatives had autism. That then led her to start what's
called Misfits Camp. So let's get started. All right, so let's go to the next topic which is
specifically the turning point and this may not be a singular conversation. You may have had
multiple turning points. So as you've said, there's many. It could be when I started my
agency the first time or when I accepted a global role and I felt so like not a fit,
you know, but I accepted it because I wanted to learn more, etc. Maybe the biggest is after 35
years in advertising, what do you do? You have a choice to walk away which I did. I was like
a blank page. What would you do? I'm not the person who probably just spend my money and travel
the world and do something like, no. I wanted to do something meaningful and something that I could
be busy with and yet love what I do. What was it? I was always looking, discovering talent,
creative talent. I love mentoring creative talent. I used to teach as a professor in
creative writing in a university. So I love teaching. I love mentoring. I love
looking for talent and then I saw a nephew of mine at 12. He could design games but the challenge was
he was in the autism spectrum and his games that he was developing were just as good as the floor
in Densu in Tokyo where the young creatives are designing games. I feel like maybe something here.
I went back to school, studied neurodiversity, autism as a specific subject and I learned that
80% of them are really creative. I told my husband, again, this is it. I go like this is,
I don't know, you'll find me weird. I said, Timmy, I told this case, what if I come up with
a training center? Here in the Philippines, we have special schools for children with autism
with all the neurodiverse disorders but up until 10 years old, 12 years old,
what happens when they grow up? Where are they? Apparently, there's nowhere to go. Nowhere.
No future whatsoever. So what if you come up with a training center after school,
let's say they're around 19, 20. We require that age because I don't want to teach life skills. I
just want them like get them from school so they know, they follow, they know directions and train
them to have an opportunity to be hired in our creative industry. So have a future, have a
possibility of career. That's a nice one. Go. But I go like, where do I get my students? Where do I
get my children? I have no idea because this is a stigma. Mothers don't post their children with
autism or else they're very afraid to be judged, afraid to be bullied and whatever. So how do you
get them? So you know, he started the hard ways. He said, built it, they will come.
Yeah, we're talking about the MISWIS camp.
Yes. So we built it. It's a small room in the middle of the city so that it's easy to get into.
And then one after the other, I discover over a name or so, I reached out to the parent,
thinks I'm a scammer. They would, who's this calling us? There's some things. It was so
difficult. But fast forward to today, it's already two years. I have 40 of them, 40 bright
kids, very high performing, 80% are autistic, 20% ADHD. It's something that I wouldn't dream
not doing if you ask me now. So probably the biggest turning point was, will I do that?
I don't know if it'll succeed or not. Someone told me, you've been doing purpose telling
with your ads in the past. Now your purpose doing. The ultimate goal is purpose living.
But doing is fine. At least I'm doing something that is purposeful. It's not like words,
just saying it. It's actually action.
神経多様性の定義
When you say neurodiversity, can you give us a simple definition of what neurodiversity is?
Yes. So neuro means brain. Diversity means different. So these are differently wired
brains. So if you say, for example, your dyslexic is a neurodiversity disorder. Dyslexic,
your brain is wired that is having difficulty identifying words and spelling. There are a lot
of people with dyslexia. Tom Cruise has dyslexia. Also let's say ADHD, attention hyperactivity
disorder. So you cannot focus. Or you have Tourette syndrome. Your brain and your nervous
system work together. So you have tics. So there are several. And then of course, autism spectrum
disorder is like a disorder where there's differences in the way your brain focuses.
Actually, they don't have a specific description of it, but it is how differences are amongst
brains. That's how autism works. And then you have mental health disorder affecting your moods
and behavior. You have your bipolar, anxiety attacks, depression. They also have this
calculia brain that have disorders and looking at numbers. So they're different. It's simply,
there's no two brains alike, but these are really wired, way different from us neurotypicals,
as they call it. So it's actually the way people are wired.
Yeah. That's different. That's different. Yeah. But I guess on the flip side and something that
you touched upon a little bit, the fact that they're wired differently might give them
神経多様性の才能
challenges. But what are some superpowers that you've noticed that they have?
Yeah. So this is where my excitement came in when I was working on it. For example, you are
dyslexic. You cannot read words and spelling. Oh my gosh. Your visual thinking is so heightened
because you cannot write and read well. Everything is drawn differently. Everything is visual.
So you can see some creatives who are more visual, the way they make stories and tell stories are
all visual, not necessarily written storytelling. Or you have your ADHD. It's a series of inattention,
impulsivity. So here, oh my God, the work, the mind is so energetic. They come up with what?
A hundred ideas in a minute. Okay. The autism spectrum has a memory that is 100%
memory and fine details. So their eye can see details. They could see something in you,
which you can't. I mean, sometimes they meet you the first time a year ago,
they know exactly what you wore on that day. This is like something else. And then,
if you work with all of them, they have several levels. So one could be very perfect with colors.
One is just black and white. So in creative language, you can see the differences.
For me, those people with mental health, bipolar, depression, and anxiety attacks,
these are the insightful ones. They think so deeply. So when you give them a brief,
they dig deep into feelings. And the way they write is something else, as if their experience
has come out really well. When you compare a writer who hasn't experienced anything in life
and was just a rich kid, let's say, versus someone who digs deep into how people feel,
these are very different ones. So it excites me to discover. So it's always like 15 sessions of
discovery first, an assessment of what their talents are. And then after that,
we only zero in into one. This is not a school. We zero in into one talent, and then we push that
super in different ways so that they could be hired for just that talent.
I have one with autism who can edit videos with such precision that, let's say, a two-minute,
or a 30-second, or a 15-second. I go like, EG, this looks long. Miss, that's exactly 15 seconds.
I could see everything into the edit, yet it's 15. I'm asking for a 15. It's really up to us
to discover it really well and train it to a level where it's hireable.
Oh, wow. So they have those superpowers, heightened sensibility.
支援と発見のプロセス
But I guess finding those superpowers or finding that talent, it may not be obvious
at the beginning. Is it sort of a random chance that you discover that talent? Or,
you know, you say 15 sessions or 15 steps that you go through.
So even if they don't write, we make them write. Even if they don't-
Oh, I see.
So we even came up with a handbook of different levels of exercises.
I see.
So I measure their sensory skills on coloring, on how they- because some with autism couldn't handle
holding crayons or pencils. Even their sensory motor skills is being evaluated in every way.
And then we discover it.
I see, I see.
Yeah. We call on their parents and show them what they've done.
And this is a cry session because usually parents don't know what they're capable of.
Right, right, right, right. Yeah. So these 15 evaluations that you go through to find
what their superpower is, basically.
Yes.
But it sounds like this was your encounter with your 12-year-old nephew.
Yes.
Yeah, who was very skilled in-
Skillful.
Making games.
Yes.
Yeah. But also he had autism and that comes with some challenges, you know, learning challenges
and things like that. And then so starting this place for- but I guess these individuals,
you're helping them find a career path, is that- or the beginning of their career path.
Yeah.
Yeah. So are they like in their teens, early 30s? What's sort of the-
No. So I accept them. On my website, I put 21 and above. They have the maturity,
first to have life skills. They can go, you know, they can go to the place, maybe commute,
maybe, you know, I don't have to teach life skills because when I studied autism,
that is the major thing when they're growing up.
Yeah.
So the second one is they don't have socials, they don't have friends. So this place have given
safe space to have friends. And then the third would be they have a talent, a creative talent.
So they go through 15 sessions of assessing what that talent is. I've encountered some who are
good in numbers, so it's not for the Misfits Camp. I partnered with other organizations that,
you know, put- train and put disabled people into different jobs. So I go like,
I have neurodiverse people who are not creative. Can you help me look for a job for them? And then
they would. And then they find creative ones, they would send them to me. So I'm trying to
come up with a community where we also help each other if I cannot, let's say, train some people
because they have different levels of neurodiversity. Some cannot really work in a
workplace. Right now, I have two ways. One is a workplace where I'm training. The other one is
commissioned work. So maybe freelance work. Because some are really skilled, but they cannot
talk or you have to have a different way of giving them directions. So I don't think they would be
able to survive in an actual workplace. When I see some of my divergent creatives,
high-performing ones, and I ask their parents, what did you do right? They speak perfect English.
Because early on, when we could sense there was something wrong, we had them diagnosed
早期診断の重要性
right away. No delay. What you call that? No denial stage. Because usually parents are in denial.
And parents who are in denial and let their kids grow up, it's a bit too late to really help them
out. They wouldn't speak, it becomes harder and harder to manage. But when they are early detection,
and they go to the right therapist, or the right schooling, or the right support group,
they end up to be more, the possibility for them to be in a normal space, or to get good in a job,
or to even have a career, becomes bigger possibilities. As a mom or a dad, you have
a gut feel. If you feel that there is a possibility, even if it's ADHD, not inattention, whatever,
there's no reason not to have it diagnosed. Because the only reason why we have more now
is because more are diagnosed. In our past, when we were growing up, there was no diagnosis such
as that. It wasn't a thing. Yeah. So we feel, I think when they grow up, they find out there's
something. So just a lot of autism and ADHD diagnosis when they were adults already. Because
they feel there's something wrong. I couldn't make myself sociable. I don't have friends. I'm already
35. All those things. And there is something. And when they get diagnosed today, they learn that
創造性と支援のモデル
they have an overlap of autism and ADHD, let's say. You being interested in neurodiversity,
that was a new learning opportunity that was very different from anything else you did prior to that.
But I guess there was the common topic of creativity, you being a creative in your career,
professional career, having a certain kind of creativity, maybe different from yours,
but a certain kind of creativity. And your interest in that topic and learning more.
Yes. I'm always on the lookout of where we can bring creativity and make it thrive. In an era,
AI has always been the question, right? It may not be the answer you're looking for, but it is a way
of making creativity thrive. Yeah. And more recently, in addition to Mystery Camp,
you're also starting your own agency again. Yes. But with, I guess, some of these,
quote, unquote, misfits. Yes. So what I did was, there are some graduates, I may call graduates
of the Misfits Camp, and then some other agencies want to hire them, but I'm not sure. I want to
make sure they don't get traumatized. I want to sort of make them have a place where they could
imbibe workplace and feel safe. Like the first step. And I want to create, let's say,
an accommodation manual for them before I head them, okay, before I give you over to TVWA,
let's say. I want to be sure. Because these people, once they get traumatized,
you're back to square one. Oh, wow. Okay. So I want to be sure. So coming up with an agency
after two years of that. Right. Also, right. Obstacle number one, which is a glaring one,
is sustainability. You can't always depend on donations. It is a non-profit,
a donations and grants, which is the hardest for me to deal with. So I felt,
someone told me, an expert told me, why don't you create a social enterprise agency where the
purpose is to fund the Misfits Camp? Yeah. And at the same time, Misfits Camp trains graduates
that moves to JHQ that we can help survive a workplace. And then that's a step also to move
out. Yeah. So it's really like you have this supportive circular kind of growth model
where it helps each other. Sure. So someone, I got an expert from Hong Kong,
業界の挑戦とアドバイス
explained to me what I could do. And I said, oh my gosh, it's not exactly like putting up another
agency just for the sake of, it's really, it needs to help the other one. Yeah. It's a virtual cycle
between the camp and the agency. Yes. Yeah. And you also attract talent who is willing
to be helpful and sometimes lecture in the other room. So if you visit us, the right side is the
Misfits Camp, the left side is JHQ. It's just beside each other. So you can move. Yeah. They're
somewhat co-dependent on each other. Yes. Yeah. Yes. You know, both you and I work in an industry
that is probably filled with these Misfits one way or another, whether they are aware of it or not,
I do think that there are a lot of us, maybe I'm to some extent, I don't know what extent both of
us, perhaps. I was in a room with other creative directors, CCOs, and many of them probably
are on some spectrum, but we didn't know there was no system to find out. There was no system to
train. Many of us may have had a lot of different challenges, but just had to kind of work our way
through. I guess this is probably my last question. The creative industry benefits perhaps
from these differently wired individuals, but we never had any official system or process to embrace
them. In fact, it's a really, really brutal industry in that way. We work long hours.
There's no official training program. What advice do you have for companies to be able to
let these neurodivergent individuals succeed? That's a tough question, but I know,
yeah, I know. I read this book. Melvin Mangata gave me this book. It's such a beautiful book
that great minds think unalike. In that book, the forward who wrote the book was a creative
director of Gray. He said he was in a creative council in New York. One look at the room
filled with creative directors from different countries, he could tell everyone was neurodiverse.
Okay, so you're right in that sense. I felt I had ADHD. I had myself diagnosed. There is a kind of
neurodiversity where it's acquired. It may be from a trauma. It may be from an accident,
神経発達の多様性の理解
and you get to be neurodivergent. Oh, wow. Okay. Yes, and I felt I was acquired because they said
ADHD is inborn, but with your case, because of COVID, and I had a global role, and you can
imagine how hard it was to do Zoom calls after Zoom calls of different people. I got burned out,
and he felt there is an acquired neurodiversity. Having said that, looking back, I had some
creatives who I knew they were neurodivergent, but there was no one who was equipped with education
of what it is. Even HR didn't have the education of what it is and what to do,
so they end up being fired because ADHD is your lazy creative, your creatives who cannot start
the work, cannot finish on time, cannot meet deadlines. These are your creatives who have
ADHD, who sleeps on the job literally because of their meds. I felt the first thing to do really
is to have an education of that which we are designing because my partner organization
has designed a training education module for companies which is used for clients like Nestle,
P&G, but no one has touched the creative industry, and I told him why when the creative industry,
most of the people there are neurodivergent. It's just that no one bothers to check,
so he goes because I'm not creative and I don't know how to create that module
for HR. What we're doing now is we're designing this training module together because I've been
to creative shops and try to create something that would teach how to embrace it, how to first
identify, make sure, identify if your creatives or people in your agency are neurodiverse,
what is the diagnosis and how do you deal with each diagnosis because it's hard. When we start
somewhere like that, education, I feel there will be steps and processes at least in hiring,
evaluations, in mentoring, in all these creating partner teams and whatever. You will make sure
that it helps. I think you really start with that because not knowing what you don't know,
you don't know. You can't blame everyone now. They will seem to you like different people
who have attitudes, but at the end of the day, they're actually just wired differently. You
have to understand how to, let's say, mentor them or inspire them, motivate them.
That could be a beginning of a new phase of the creative industry because like I said, there was
never an official or a conscious way of working with neurodiverse people. Many of us may be
different degrees and different spectrum of neurodiversity, but we benefit the creative
industry and the clients that people work with. They benefit also from neurodiverse people, yet
it's never been an official or systematic way of embracing and working with them for the benefit
of the business. That's true. When you say spectrum, I also made this mistake in the
beginning. You think it's a straight line. On the left is the more autistic person. On the right is
the less. It's not that way. It's a circle. Autism has different factors. Is it motor skills, senses?
Let's say verbal, nonverbal. Whoever they lean towards, they may be nonverbal. It's like a
graph. A nonverbal bot, let's say, has a very big memory or has sensory problems, but it's like that.
I liken it to our creative circle. Sometimes you have a circle and then do you gravitate more to
writing, drawing, to music? Your artistic circle is also a spectrum. We sort of try to match that
because otherwise, you will not understand. You'll think, is he more autistic than this? That's so
vague. We try to understand also how their spectrum works. Once you do that, you'll be
amazed. It's not a linear spectrum. It's a multi-dimensional spectrum. That was part two
of my conversation with Merle Jamie, an internationally recognized creative leader from the Philippines
and the founder of Misfits Camp. Today's topic was neurodiversity. This topic was not premeditated
before recording my conversation with her. On the spot, I asked her what was the turning point in her
career, and to my surprise, she brought up something that was actually quite recent. I expected for her
to say something that happened, say, 20 years ago or even longer than that, perhaps when she started
her own agency or perhaps when she got into this industry, but then instead, she cited this
encounter and the realization that she had when observing one of her young relatives and realized
that this teenage child was autistic and had autism. That motivated her to understand this
relative of hers better, and she enrolled in the program that taught neurodiversity. She then spent
a year or so trying to academically understand what neurodiversity is and then learned that
people who have autism or dyslexia or other types of what is considered mental disabilities
are in fact, they're not necessarily disabled, but rather they're just wired differently.
Both Merle and I have been working in the creative industry for the past couple decades or so,
obviously in different corners of the world, and I've come across quite a few people who might be
different from each other. Over 25 years ago, when I got into this industry, what I didn't realize
was how this industry, the creative industry, is filled with eccentric people. Some people
were crazy, some people were obnoxious, some people were brilliant but also unexpected, and
everybody was just so different that even though I didn't know where to fit in,
it was okay to be different and because everybody was different, everybody somehow fit in.
Talking to Merle, what I realized was that this topic of neurodiversity is something
クリエイティブ産業における多様性
that has not really been talked about that explicitly, particularly in the creative
industry. What I now realize is that the eccentricity of the industry and the people
who work in this industry may actually be because of neurodiversity and the neurodivergent people
that work in the creative industry. In many ways, the fact that many of us may be wired
differently does explain the differences that we all have working in the creative capacity
and using our talent to make something. The main takeaway from my conversation with Merle is the
following. Great minds think unlike. That's the power of misfits. If you like our podcast,
please leave us a 5-star rating and if you're listening to this on Spotify, there's a Q&A
field so please do send us your questions and comments. We'd be so grateful. I'm Reina Moro
and this is The Creative Mindset. See you next time.
