クリエイティビティの価値
This is Reina Moro's podcast, The Creative Mindset.
Hi everyone, welcome to The Creative Mindset, a podcast about what the future holds at the
intersection of creativity and technology. I am Reina Moro, the founding partner of I&CO,
a global innovation firm based in New York and Tokyo.
Generative AI has been the topic of 2023, not just in the creative industry but various
industries and how it might impact the way we work and us as human beings.
Since the explosion of tools like ChatGPT, Meet Journey and other generative AI tools,
there have been many attempts at leveraging AI in the creation of content.
However, at the enterprise or brand level,
there haven't been that many viable or successful case studies of AI for and by creatives.
Today's guest is Poon Lephebret, the co-founder and chief creative officer of DesignArmy
in Washington, DC, where she's also the co-founder of the company,
and the chief creative officer of DesignArmy, the co-founder and chief creative officer of DesignArmy.
oversees all creatives coming through the agency's doors.
In Part 1 and Part 2, we talked about how she used AI in actual client work and what
designers should watch out for when using AI.
If you haven't listened, please have a listen.
In Part 3, we go into how we as creatives can maximize our creativity in the age of
AI and why AI is good news for middle-aged creatives like me and Poon.
Sorry Poon for calling you middle-aged.
So let's get started.
One of the conversations that we were having a couple of weeks ago, and we didn't because
I wanted to record that conversation, so I suggested to you that, hey, you know, let's
do a podcast episode.
But the topic that you and I were talking about was the value of creativity done at
different levels, right, and different kind of outcome those pieces of creativity produce
for you.
For a given organization.
So, for instance, professionally done, beautifully shot video or photograph costing, let's say,
you know, $250,000 to produce or $500,000 to produce versus, and it gets 5 million views,
let's say, versus a TikTok video that some college kid shoots for no money, or let's
say, let's just say for the sake of this argument, $500, right?
So he gets paid $500, he or she gets paid $500 by a company and say, hey, shoot me a
video that can promote my company.
And as he gets 5 million views as well.
So while what's done for $500,000 versus $500, how do we evaluate which is better?
I'm sure from the client standpoint, it's the way they evaluate is like how many views
you get, right?
So if you are $500,000, get $10,000.
I mean, why would they keep spending money on a $500,000 campaign?
Now, I mean, we have our own TikTok account too, you know, we did the great Hong Kong
ballet campaign.
I'm sure you've seen it.
Yeah, I've seen it.
I mean, that's got like millions and millions of views.
Now, my behind the scenes of shooting that campaign.
Let's say 10 second video got 3 million views and then it went viral, it's like collectively
almost 10 million views of the three behind the scenes video.
It just makes me think that it's funny that the behind the scenes get even more views
than the actual campaign.
But then I would not have the behind the scenes view without having the real campaign, you
know?
So you kind of need that to get...
Right.
I think it depends.
I think it's a value, the client and us have to make decision of what is good for the brand.
Is it storytelling in a more imaginative way or is it storytelling in a real raw authentic
way?
Yeah.
Low production is real.
You know, I mean, I can get on TikTok right now.
Okay.
This glasses is great.
So this one is like really on trend, aviator sunglasses and now, you know, turn it into
eyeglasses.
I mean, if this is going to sell better versus the AI campaign that I have done, then we
need to reevaluate the output as a creative director, as a creative agency.
Do we go the real one or do we tell the story that way?
Yeah.
I mean, for me, I love art.
And there's something about art.
Yeah.
There's something about being an agency, that dream crazy thing.
I mean, I don't think that's going to change.
I mean, I can't see myself become a TikTok expert company because that's not who we are.
You know, I don't want to go where the wind is blow, you go with it.
Like we know who we are, you know what you're good at.
I would rather, you know, work on AI and continue our point of view.
As a designer and artist that we do imaginative campaign, beautiful color, exquisite style
now using AI.
I think it's better than, okay, this army now is going to do TikTok.
Right.
Right.
Right.
Right.
Right.
I just have, I think I just have no interest doing that.
Maybe I can do TikTok about the AI process that I create this campaign.
Sure.
Sure.
But I think at the end of the day, you need to know what turn you on.
Mm-hmm .
I think we all agency has tendency to get to kind of where the wind blow, where the
trend's going.
We just going to jump on the brand back and, but you know, at the end of the day, is that
really who you are?
Yeah.
The client come to an agency because of they have certain point of view.
So if you lose that in yourself, you know, one day you Madonna, tomorrow you are the
AIと創造性の関係
kiss.
It's you, you kind of losing that, your true self.
And you kind of lose your own honesty.
One thing that I've been thinking about in relation to this conversation is I'm trying
to write an article.
I'm still kind of moving in my head, so I don't know what the output will be, but the
title is, I'm either calling it the end of creativity or the end of creative elitism.
I think creativity used to belong to quote unquote the elites in different ways.
I was talking to John Maeda a couple of months ago.
Do you know John Maeda?
He's a design technologist and I was talking to him for this podcast and he said something
that I hadn't expected, which is you have to be wealthy to be creative.
And I'm like, Oh really?
When he, when he says to be creative, he didn't mean like clever, but creative in that you
have an opportunity to make art, you know, one can be like poor and then one can be clever
to make a living.
But what he was talking about to create something that you don't really need for instance, right?
Painting.
You don't really need.
So, so that, so A, you have, you have to be wealthy.
And then the other thing is that, you know, like you and I, we've been trained as designers
and then trained to use these tools.
And these tools were really to believe you had to learn, there was a learning curve
too.
But now that those things are being taken, they're being eliminated.
So you don't have to be an elite to be a creative anymore.
I think you do.
Not to be elite.
You need to have a foundation.
Yeah.
In order to innovate.
For example, like you say, okay, it's makes sense that pool make all these images.
I also tool, my designer also explore the AI tool.
We all have mid journey.
They don't have the foundation and vocabulary to this result.
So because of, you know, I have the knowledge and foundation on art history, movie reference,
color or history of graphic design or whatever.
It create a different outcome.
So you don't have to be, they say, yes, we are democratized design because everyone can
now create art.
But then at the end of the day is my art look better than the other two people art.
Right.
Right.
Because you have the expense.
You have the expense.
You have the vocabulary.
You know how to judge.
You know how to quote unquote brief AI to get something good out of them.
Right.
You know how to create a direct.
Yes.
It's very articulate in terms of creative directions to the point that we want it to,
I want to generate like Kodak 400 films, look and feel 21 years old, not going to be able
to do that because they don't spend lifetime study artists, study art history and paint,
you know, grow up as a painter.
So like it do in order to create good prompt, you also have to be a good artist or good
creative director as well.
Yeah.
I think, I mean, I was talking about the end of creative elitism, but I think what
also could happen.
So about three years ago, I was in an online MBA course and I was in a group of like 10,
15 people.
And there was a person who was in their late mid to late forties.
They were working as a creative director or as an art director for a retail agency or
maybe in-house.
But they were saying that a lot of quote unquote, creatives like middle age, creatives
like 40 and up were out of jobs.
They were being pushed out, you know, because there were younger people who are more skilled
and probably cheaper.
But I wonder if AI actually can be the rebirth of middle age creators can give a rebirth.
AIによる創造力の復権
Absolutely.
Okay.
Because we have vocabulary and knowledge.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We have the vocabulary and knowledge and experience to create the prompt in no time.
Right.
Generate an idea, copy.
I mean, it's fast.
Yeah.
An editor, it's better to be a good editor now than a good writer or good designer.
Right.
Right.
Because the AI can do the basic stuff, but then you have to be a good teacher who
give us good assignment.
Good assignment create good outcome.
Right.
Right.
It's like, you know, the good the assignment is.
Yeah.
Rebirth.
It's like radio, you know, people think radio is dying and now everyone listen to podcasts.
Right.
Right.
It's going into circle.
It's great for it.
I mean, that's why from the personal standpoint, working on this project, I feel fulfilled
because I feel like, oh, I got to create again.
Because usually you just kind of like, you know, be a creative CCO and you let your team
do that thing.
Right.
Right.
I mean, it takes a lot of time.
I will pass down to the team, of course.
クリエイティブ・ディレクターの役割の変化
But it will be interesting to see what is the role of the creative director in the future.
Right.
Yeah.
I think it's going to change.
I think it will be interesting to see how 40 years old compete job market with 20 years
old.
20 years old junior in college, they don't want to work in advertising agency anymore.
Yeah.
They don't even want to work in anything.
They just want to be a creator.
Brand go directly to them as a 20 years old to sell glasses.
Right.
So it's not like, are we going to be better?
若いクリエイターと広告の変化
It's like we're not even going to compete the same thing because the young creator
is going to tell their story a different way that makes sense to their peers.
They don't watch TV anymore.
They grow up in a generation.
They grow up in a generation that, you know, there's a button called skip ad.
Skip ad button.
Do you think the kids want to become, want to be in this industry?
I don't know.
I don't think so.
My daughter was like, oh, Sophie, you know, you can be like the next generation of design
me.
She's like, nope, I'm going to gaming.
She played games.
And then for a sudden, right, the new wave of advertising play game.
You can buy Louis Vuitton skin clothes.
And to express herself as a, this diva, when she played a game with her friends, they can't
differentiate or they can differentiate, but online and offline present is all the same.
Then she played a game and then for a sudden you see hamburger jumping up in McDonald's
or something.
And then you have to like play a little bit more to get a free French fries.
And then they spit out a coupon that you can, you know, you can buy.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then, you know, now go to McDonald's and buy burger with freeze fries.
So the advertising changed a lot, you know, it's not about storytelling anymore.
You know, the kids are not watching halftime advertising or 30 second ads that people
still watch TV.
I mean, I don't even watch TV.
So, but with AI, I mean, the kids probably can use AI in their way, you know, so let's
say my daughter execution with AI probably going to be very different.
It's probably look like Japanese anime, gaming looking.
It's come down to aesthetic again.
You know, I can show this and a lot of people in my generation or millennial found really
cool and exciting and it might not work for 17 years old.
They can think that, okay, this is all looking so like who's to judge of what's relevant
or not.
I think it's just come back to the audience.
You know what?
I mean, I think.
It's driving a lot of aesthetic change from fashion for like, like even now, like when
you look at the makeup and cosmetic, it's almost back to the 70 again, people are experiment
with like bright blue eyeshadow with glittering and they put diamonds on the face and this
face peers and then like half the top is black lip and the bottom is like pink.
It just, the aesthetic change.
ポジティブなアウトルックの重要性
So we have to keep up with the time.
So Ray, if you see me, you know, next month and I have like crazy makeup, you know, I
will try to keep up with the time.
I will know where it came from then, where the inspiration came from.
I think being an optimistic person give me energy.
I always looking at thing with glass half full.
The world is going insanely crazy right now.
I'm trying not to watch the news because anything that like bring me down, I am trying to walk
away from it.
You know, I think having a positive outlook to anything in your life is a mindset and
you have to train yourself to look at thing with positivity and then it's just going
to bring joy, you know?
So each day is not so scary anymore.
ライトニングクエスチョン
This AI thing is like you can, when the new AI come out, we all like, oh my God, what
are we going to do?
We're going to lose job and AI is not going to take your job, but people who doesn't know
how to.
Use AI will take your job.
Lightning questions.
During the interview, we dig deep into different topics surrounding creativity.
On the contrary, with this section, we ask the same questions to the guests to react
on the spot and we don't let them see the questions in advance.
If you want a designer, what else would you be doing?
I will be editor-in-chief of Vogue magazine.
If you could be a designer, what else would you be doing?
I will be editor-in-chief of Vogue magazine.
If you could be a designer, what else would you be doing?
I will be editor-in-chief of Vogue magazine.
If you could live anywhere in the world, where would you live?
If you could live anywhere in the world, where would you live?
If you could live anywhere in the world, where would you live?
I love Lake Como.
You know, combination of Swiss mountain in the back, lake in the front, Italian architecture,
beautiful nature.
It's like a dream.
Where is the next place that you want to travel to for fun?
I kind of want to go to Mars.
I want to go out of space.
I feel like I have seen it all.
I hate to say that.
So I'm a little bit bored.
Like if I can go in, I would do the space travel.
What's your favorite dish?
Spicy green curry with coconut milk over rice and fried eggs on top.
I'm Thai, so that taste never leaves me.
What's your favorite type of music or favorite song?
I love jazz.
Jazz.
I think it has a lot of soul in it.
You know, Chet Baker is one of my favorites.
One of my favorite artists.
You know, I love movie Whiplash.
Have you seen?
Yeah, of course.
Yeah.
I mean, it's incredible.
I love jazz.
What was your key turning point in your career?
I think switching our agency from traditional graphic design firm into creative directions.
And then we get in from like a graphic design, right?
Do branding.
Logo.
And then we switch it to as a kind of creative direction company that we produce film, music,
video and movie.
Did it open up more opportunities or what?
Why was that?
Yes.
Because at that time, I started noticing, you know, graphic design, branding is great,
but you can get paid so much and it's limited.
You know, I have done like a million of logos in my life.
I have done so many graphic standards.
It just feels repetitive and it's the same and there's no room to grow.
And I'm looking at advertising and, you know, growing up in Thailand, watching the ad, it's
like there's so much fun there.
But then I don't really like the traditional funny ha ha American advertising either.
So I did the combination, you know, how can we do ads or movie and using design as a foundation?
Yeah.
So it's, we always, you know, create a visual first campaign.
You know, when we look at, you look at something like Hong Kong ballet, there's a hundred probably
different film, you're right, a hundred different scene.
I mean, we sketch every single one as how we would sketch out a whole entire book, you
know, from color, composition, you know, what story is going to tell.
It's rooted in design.
So that's why it's like super tight in terms of, you know, how we approach it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, how we approach the project back to the point of view, you have to create your
unique point of view and that's what's going to attract the client.
That's two questions.
What is your superpower?
I'm relentless.
I don't stop.
I like to keep going.
I never want to feel like I have enough.
Last question for you.
What is creativity?
Creativity is when you hit human emotions.
Yeah.
Emotion at its core, you know, I think something creative should make you feel something, you
know, should make me laugh, should make me cry, should make me surprised, should make
me feel something.
I think that's creative.
プラムとの会話のパート3
So that was part three of my conversation with Prum Lefebvre, the co-founder and the
chief creative officer of Design Army in Washington, DC.
The main takeaway from my conversation with Prum is the following.
You can teach an old dog new tricks.
What was memorable about what she said was the fact that the quality of the output that
she created versus younger creatives and designers at her firm created.
She mentioned how she was able to rely on her experience as a creative and as a creative
director for many, many years.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that was very interesting.
And I think at the end of the day, the most important thing about creative directors is
that they have the ability to give feedback and directions to designers.
That's what a creative director does.
It's not just coming up with ideas.
The job of a creative director is to initiate the nugget of an idea and directing the creatives
to make the idea better.
And if you've used any of these tools, specifically tools like Midjourney and other visual generative
AI tools.
Yeah.
Yeah.
giving prompt but adding prompt, tweaking the prompt so that you get the output that you desire
and it's not a one-step process. You have to go through multiple steps in order to get that
output that you may have in your mind or it's better than what you imagined. So it's this
iteration of giving feedback and giving direction that allows you to create something that is not
just AI generated but it's actually creative in the final output. And that comes from years of
experience getting used to talking to designers and these AI tools while they might not be as
sophisticated and as smart and as creative as human beings just yet but it's at least good at
responding without complaining to the feedback and directions that you give.
And
and
, that act of iteration comes from many years of experience that Plum has and the sensibility
that she's earned and learned over the years that she uses to get that creative output.
So if you are in your late 30s or even your 40s you have a decade or more of that experience
that you can rely on to get the output that a younger person might not be able to.
it's the time and experience that counts that allows you to create that others might not be able to.
So this main takeaway, you can teach an old dog new tricks, is an old saying but it applies to the new age of AI as well.
So that was part three of my conversation with Plum Lefebvre, the co-founder and the chief creator officer of Design Army in Washington D.C.
If you are listening to this on Spotify there's a Q & A field so please do send us your questions and comments.
And if you like our podcast, and if you like our content, please leave a comment here below.
podcast, please leave us a five-star rating. We'd be so grateful. I'm Reina Moto, and this
is The Crayon Mindset. See you next time.
