異文化でのリーダーシップ
This is Reinamoto's podcast, The Creative Mindset.
Hi everyone, welcome to The Creative Mindset, a podcast about what the future holds at the
intersection of creativity and technology. I am Reinamoto, the founding partner of I&CO,
a global innovation firm based in New York and Tokyo. This is part two of AMA,
Ask Me Anything, where we answer questions from my listeners. Instead of just answering them by
myself, we invite them to be on our show and make that into an open conversation.
The question came from Corinne O'Keefe, who just took a new role as a chief creative officer at
Digitas, a global marketing agency, and its UK office. If you haven't listened to part one,
please do have a listen. In part two, we go into the specifics of the role of a creative leader
in a new environment. So let's get started.
I'm stepping into yet another different culture as a leader. So much of how we connect with people,
at least in the short term, is based off shared cultural experiences and background.
And so as you stepped into these sort of new places and spaces,
how did being from a different sort of background or how did being multicultural either help you
or hinder you? Sort of what were your strategies in terms of being able to connect with people
on your team where you might not have had that commonality?
What observations have you made and what are some of the challenges that you've
encountered as you worked in different places in different cities?
異なる場所としての移動のメリット
Thing that I have really liked about moving around is that it forces us to step out of our culture
and the patterns that we learn and doing and saying and operating almost on autopilot and
really reflect on what do we believe, who are we, how do we want to operate,
and what is true to ourselves versus the way that we've always done it. I think it was the same for
me moving from the East Coast to the West Coast, as you said, because I grew up on the East Coast
and then very much so when I moved sort of to Europe. And what that helped me do was be like,
okay, who am I and then how do I show up as who I am and how do I share that as a means of being
vulnerable and open and honest to sort of create that environment to then, regardless of what
background somebody else might be from, to be able to then share themselves with me.
Because I think the roadblocks that I've run into is kind of going back to what you're saying
about humility is when I haven't felt comfortable to be myself, when I have tried to, you know,
when I first got to the West Coast and or working on, you know, Nike directly and feeling like I had
to be this sneakerhead who knew and breathed sneaker culture. And it wasn't true. It is now
with my sneaker closet, but at that time it wasn't true. And so feeling like I could truly be myself
as I moved into these places and everyone around me has this shared language, whether it's, you
know, literally in the Netherlands or, you know, sneaker culture language when I first moved to
Portland. And I think learning. And when I first moved to Amsterdam, one of the things that became
pretty profound for me was this idea of getting comfortable with looking stupid. I remember the
自己を表現するための戦略
first day I went to, I had to take the tram to the office and I took it home and I was like,
I got this first day in the books, made it. And I didn't know you had to press the button for the
doors to open that my tram stop, like, why aren't the doors opening? And then all of a sudden the
tram keeps going. And I was like, you've got to be kidding me. Just have to press the button,
but everything's in Dutch. I didn't know it. And the biggest thing is I just felt like such an
idiot. And that happened every day for like the first three to four months when I first moved here.
But what I realized is I started to build a tolerance to being worried about feeling stupid.
And so what I noticed is that there was a correlation of when I would walk into a room
where everyone else had a shared culture or language, or I'd walk into a room with a client
and I felt more comfortable still showing up as me because I wasn't as worried about if I was going
to do something wrong or say something wrong because I didn't already understand the way
it was supposed to be. One little technique that I've used is to know a little bit about
where they are from or where they grew up or which city that they're from. And I try to find
commonality between my own experience and where they come from. And when I can find some connection
文化の共通点と異なる意見
between my upbringing, which is very different from pretty much anybody else's, nobody has the
same upbringing, right? Unless they're from the same town or same place. It's often possible to
find something that's common between them and you. And using that as a starting point to have
a personal relationship with that individual is a good technique to bridge that cultural
difference. Before I forget, I'll share one story that I heard about a very visible and famous
leader, which is President Clinton, right? And whether you like him as a president or not is a
separate conversation. But I heard a story about how skilled he was in making people and individuals
feel very close to him. And that was his quote-unquote, his leadership style, right? And
I heard a story about him at some kind of fundraising party. President Clinton comes
to this individual and immediately he says, you know what? I heard you were brought up by a single
mother. I'm a son of a single mother as well. I know how you feel, right? And with that, he won
this individual over just emotionally. But the point here is that he was consciously always
trying to find that particular personal connection with every individual as much as possible.
It's simple and that's why it's difficult, but it's simple to make that personal connection
with an individual if you know what that commonality is between you and this random stranger.
Yeah, I think that's really interesting and you're right. We are humans and now reflecting on it,
there are a lot of commonalities that you can find with people regardless of culture.
How have you found that the things that we don't have in common can influence? Because another thing
that I think is interesting is as people who have been sort of in multiple cultures or haven't
felt like we fully belonged like you and I both have, there's our commonality, is, you know, at
the end of the day, not to oversimplify it, but what we do is come up with unexpected creative
solutions and different cultures do things differently. So do you feel like that gives us
a propensity to be able to get to more like different solutions because we understand that
there's more than one answer and how has that benefited you or have you experienced that yourself?
You don't have to necessarily understand, you know, what the differences are from the get-go,
but I think being accepting of differences can lead to new and interesting ideas that you
never have come up with on your own or had you only worked in an environment where people there
were just one type of people, you know, just from one culture. So I do think the difference of
opinions is a good thing, but going back to the role of the chief creative officer is how you can
effectively manage for those different organisms to coexist with each other.
Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more. I think the difference is you need to have psychological
背景と経験の多様性
safety to be able to feel like you can truly express your opinion in the interest of actually
moving the work or whatever impact you're trying to have forward, as opposed to sometimes I think
people try to create the tension for the sake of it to be right, as opposed to do what's right.
And I think that is the fundamental difference, but especially as you said, we come from different
backgrounds and that's where I completely agree that diverse teams lead to a lot more interesting
work. But I also think that when we say that, you know, as you said, it's trendy right now,
we still have a pretty narrow scope of what we're talking about when we say diversity.
That was one thing when I moved even here that I found just so kind of interesting when I saw the
kind of evolution of creativity with the people I was working with here in terms of so many
different cultural backgrounds, so many countries coming together, and that diversity of background,
diversity of lived experience is ultimately, that's where things like race and gender and
all that stuff comes into place, but it's from that lived experience, but it's not just from
those things that give you that sort of differing point of view, which ultimately makes things more
interesting. Yeah, and also just out of curiosity, why did you take this role, decide to take this role?
If I had to sum it up in one word, it would be growth for me, both personally and professionally.
When I look at sort of what I've done and the opportunities that I have ahead of me,
when I left AKQA to do the Analog Folk thing, I felt like I couldn't do it. I was like,
新しいチームへの挑戦
there's no way, and that's ultimately why I felt like I had to. I don't feel that way now,
but this is a very new sort of environment, just when you think about I've been with
one company or had been with one company for almost a decade, so stepping into a new team
with more diversity of discipline, as you said, and I really think that presents such an
interesting opportunity in terms of creating really incredible impact in the world, and
that's ultimately what I want to do. I really believe in having these ripple effects of
being able to, at the end of the day, I just want to make good stuff with good people
and being able to continue to do that in different environments with different people,
learning from them. Hopefully, they can learn something from me, and that's kind of what this
opportunity seemed to present to me and why I ultimately decided to do it.
Yeah. Where do you want to see yourself in five years?
I don't know where I see myself in five years, to be honest with you. I try to focus on what feels
right right now. Obviously, I'm future-facing, like I'm looking for growth. I'm looking for
my next step, but what I've found over the course of my career is that as opposed to people who have
five-year plans or goals, if a door opens, does it feel right to me, and do I feel drawn to it,
and that's what's led me to here so far, so I think I'm going to stick with that.
Lightning Questions
Lightning Questions
During the interview, we dig deep into different topics surrounding creativity.
On the contrary, with this section, we ask the same questions to the guests to react on the spot,
and we don't let them see the questions in advance.
Question number one. If you weren't doing what you do now, today, what else would you be doing?
I'd be a yoga instructor. I'd be a yoga instructor, or I would own a bar on a beach in the Caribbean.
All right. Question number two. If you could live anywhere in the world, where would you live?
Costa Rica. I love Costa Rica. Yeah.
Where is the next place that you would like to travel to?
So, I'm going to Morocco this week, actually, which I'm, yes, which I'm really excited because
I think it's going to be going back to diversity, unlike anywhere else I've ever traveled,
and it's my first time on the African continent, so I'm really excited about that.
So, that's the most topical. Yeah. But if I had to, if it was like drop a pin,
where could I go anywhere? I'm dying to go to Indonesia.
What's your favorite food?
Macaroni and cheese. This is where you're like, yes, she's American, but love macaroni and cheese.
That's right. That's right. What's your favorite song or type of music?
Again, very American. And I used to be very embarrassed about this when I first started
advertising because it was quite uncool. I love country music. It's the one thing that really
ties me to my roots and it makes me just feel at my core. And you want to talk about getting
comfortable with not being judged. I wouldn't have said that publicly for a very long time,
but I really, really love country music. Yeah.
Just out of curiosity, did you grow up with country music in your household?
Yeah. So now even today, like in Amsterdam, I'll listen to country music and it's just like
that little piece of home. What is your biggest
turning point in your life, professional turning point in your life?
It is professional, but I think for me, my personal and professional have always been
quite intertwined. And it was a moment actually when I was in Miami Ad School and I was intern
at Ogilvy in Sao Paolo. And I had been a small town girl in central Pennsylvania,
again, Mary V's town. And I got there and it, you know, third biggest city in the world.
I'd never really been in a place like that. And I just remember standing on the 20th floor
of a building and I couldn't see the edge of the city and thinking to myself,
there's so much I don't know that I don't know. And it is, it was such a pivotal turning point.
I was in ad school, but it opened my mind to knowing that my entire life up until that point,
there was just so much more out there, both personally and professionally
that I wanted to go see and experience. And I'll never forget it.
It was really quite a profound moment.
Wow. That's a beautiful story. I can picture it. That's a very beautiful story.
Yeah. Thanks for sharing that. All right. Two more questions. What is your superpower?
リーダーシップと組織文化
I think that my superpower is being able to connect with people pretty quickly. I've had
to do it by being able to move around quite a lot. And so I am able, going back to the
commonalities that we've discussed, I find that I am good at being in a lot of different types
of situations and being able to connect regardless of the environment in which I'm in.
Last one for you, for Corinne, what is creativity?
Creativity to me is evoking emotion in an unexpected way and seeing something other people
don't. Beautiful. Beautiful answer.
Thank you so much. This has been very intimidating, but really fun.
That was part two of AMA, Ask Me Anything, where I answer the question from our audience.
In part one and part two, I shared a lot of my learnings, including mistakes with Corinne,
and I hope there was something that could be useful to our listeners. Corinne was asking me
about leading different groups of people who come from different walks of life,
especially going into a different environment. And as Corinne asked, working with different
people from different cultures, I still think it's possible for us to find a common ground.
I try to look for something that's common between me and the other person,
whether it's a hobby, music, movies, sports, food, what have you. There's something that you can find
as a common ground. And when you can do that, then you can start to have a conversation, not
between a boss and somebody that's being managed by that person, but as two equal human beings.
And I think that can go a long way for anybody who is leading a group of people and anybody
who's working for somebody else. When you can establish that personal connection with your
manager, with your boss, that can also help in your career moving forward.
リーダーの選び方
At the same time, I'm aware of the fact that not all of our listeners are ready to be in a
leadership position and might not be in that role for a while. So I thought I would share
my point of view and my thoughts on what people should look for in a leader. And thinking about
my career trajectory and working for several leaders, what I think I was looking for and what
I gained from the people that I worked for. And I think what it comes down to is that
it's not just the company that you should join, but it's the person that you'll be working with
and working for that you should really, really interrogate, especially if you are in a position
or if you're in a timing where you might be changing a job. In the past couple of years,
as we went through the pandemic, the great resignation was a term that we started to hear.
Apparently, that's subsiding and not as many people are switching jobs as they were during
the pandemic. But switching a job is something that I think everybody will do sooner rather than later.
And what becomes really important is what you should look for, not just in the work environment,
but in the people that you're working with. And the thing is, it really comes down to
the person that you'll be working for and what you can learn from. In my 20, 25 year long career,
I actually haven't and didn't switch jobs that many times. And what became most helpful
in the 25 years or so that I worked for somebody else, and granted that I stayed at a few places,
each place for quite a while, I think what my bosses gave me different opportunities to learn
new things, even if I didn't leave that particular environment. And particularly when the last
employment job that I had was at AKQA. And I worked for somebody named Tom Bettegrey, who was
at the time the CEO, and he was the one who recruited me to AKQA back in 2005, I think.
And I ended up staying there for more than 10 years. As I look back, even though I stayed in
one company, I was able to have multiple jobs, working in multiple offices, and multiple
environments. And Tom, I would like to credit him and thank him for giving me those opportunities.
And every couple years, he made a point of asking me, hey, Ray, what do you want to do?
What do you want to be? What do you want to achieve? And he always took the time to make it
about me and make my interests the most important thing for him and for me, and gave me the guidance
and put different opportunities in front of me that I could pursue. And I think that's why I
stayed there for more than 10 years. So to summarize, if you are working in an environment
for a boss currently, ask the boss what the future holds for you and see if that person
良い上司の重要性
allows the time to make it into a conversation and see if you and your boss can cultivate your future
together. If you might be looking for a job for whatever reason, and that's totally fair,
look for a person who can give you that kind of guidance and who can give you that kind of room
to grow. And that's what I got in my 10, 20 years working in this industry in different capacities
and different roles. And I'm forever grateful for Tom and other bosses that I've had to have
given me those opportunities and I have them to thank for and really appreciate. I think my success
today, and I'm somewhat conscious of saying the word success because I don't feel like I'm that
successful, but I really appreciate the types of opportunities that they gave me over the years.
That was part two of AMA, Ask Me Anything, where I answer questions from our audience.
This was a new experiment for us and I really enjoyed having that conversation. And by listening
to what people might be questioning or struggling with, there's a lot for me to learn from. So I
definitely welcome for any of our listeners to reach out to us. There's a link in the episode
notes. So please, please do reach out and let's have a conversation.
I'm Rei Namoto and this is The Creative Mindset. See you next time.
