Disrupting Japan gives you candid, in-depth insights from the startup founders, VCs, and leaders who are reshaping Japan.
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Using cold storage to lower energy prices in Japan
This summer has sent both temperatures and electricity prices soaring. One Japanese startup, however, has found a way to use industrial cold storage to reduce our energy bills. Today we sit down with Takehito Nishiyama, the CEO Greenphard Energy, and we talk about what it takes for startups to meaningfully compete in Japan's energy markets, how hardware startups can avoid the scalability trap, and how to sell to large Japanese industrials. It's a great conversation, and I think you'll enjoy it. Show Notes Why making money from demand response is hard How industrial cooling costs can be reduced by 40% How to start a startup from within another startup Developing a GTM to target Japanese industrial companies A unique electricity arbitrage opportunity How hardware startups can escape the scalability trap How to onboard Japanese industrial clients The future of Japanese energy startups Is the Japanese education system really that conservative? Links from the Founder Everything you ever wanted to know about Greenphard Energy Connect with Takehito on LinkedIn Leave a comment Transcript Welcome to Disrupting Japan, Straight talk from Japan's most innovative founders and VCs. I'm Tim Romero, and thanks for joining me. Good lord, it is hot outside! Of course, maybe you see things differently. I have no idea where you are or even when you are listening to this episode of Disrupting Japan, but here in Tokyo in August of 2026, it is hot. Well, today we're going to sit down with Takehito Nishiyama, founder of Greenphard Energy, a startup that's working to help keep us cool. Well, not so much keep us cool, but keep our food cool. You see, Greenphard works with refrigerated warehouses to significantly cut their electricity costs and to help them actually earn money from their electricity use. Now, in this episode, we talk about demand response, or DR. Now, we don't define it during the interview, but the idea is pretty simple. When electricity demand gets so high that it threatens to destabilize the grid, power companies will pay heavy electricity users to cut back for a while. And strategic use of demand response is a big part of Greenphard's offering. Takehito and I talk about how startups can escape the scalability trap that plagues so many industrial startups, how to start a startup from within another startup, and just why innovation is so slow to come to the energy sector in Japan. But you know, Takehito tells that story much better than I can. So, let's get right to the interview. Interview Tim: So, we're sitting down with Takehito Nishiyama of Greenphard Energy, who's helping reduce customers' electricity bills and balance grid demand. So, thanks for sitting down with us. Takehito: Thank you. Tim: In the intro, I gave a really brief description of what you guys do, but I'm sure you can explain it much better than I can. Takehito: Greenphard provides electricity solutions for mainly a refrigerator or air conditioner user. And also we provide our product for electricity producer side as well. We are IoT and physical AI provider and we are electricity trader as well. We are in a unique position. Tim: So, if I understand it, you're working to, on one side, increase the efficiency of HVAC, of cooling and refrigeration, and on the demand side, take advantage of demand response programs that are being offered by Japan's energy company. Takehito: Yeah, right. We control HVAC system, refrigerate and freeze very deeply. And we have two main value. First one is saving electricity consumption. And our second one is creating new electricity resource from electricity consumption side. Tim: Well, I mean, it's a really good topic right now, because it is suddenly very hot in Tokyo. Takehito: Yeah, right. Today's temperature is crazy level. Tim: Yeah, it's just like rainy season ended and it's been 35 degrees for the last week. Yeah, right. Takehito: And also today, summer area reached 40 degrees. Tim: Oh my God, in Japan, that is crazy. It's not supposed to be that hot here. So, let's break that down. How do you create a new electricity resource from consumption? Takehito: We can control the HVAC system very deeply and we use a timing approach. So, for example, the large-scale refrigerator will do overcooling before the demand response timing. So, during electricity type timing, we can reduce the electricity consumption of large-scale refrigerator. So, we can create a new demand response resource. Tim: Okay, that makes a lot of sense. That seems like a very clear and intuitive way to save electricity. So, for commercial or industrial cooling, how much flexibility do they have to kind of overcool? I would imagine like some of those temperature bands must be pretty, pretty tight. Takehito: It depends on the size of the facility. For example, in large-scale cold storage case, temperature range is larger than all in our air conditioner facility. So, we can use this wide range temperature. Tim: So, how much demand response is there in Japan? I mean, four or five years ago, there was a lot of talk about how demand response was going to be an important part of managing the grid. Is that the case? Takehito: Demand response needs is increasing year by year, but demand response resource provider is still small. Actually, just trading demand response is very easy. Most simple ways change a client-side operation, or for example, stop their factory operation. It's very simple. But our operation is very different from that. In our solution, client-side doesn't need to change their business operation. Tim: But from the grid side, how often are demand response signals being sent? Takehito: Currently, once or twice a year. But there's a potential to change in near future because current global warming effect is really big. Tim: So, only a couple of times a year is when you get to take advantage of demand response directly? Takehito: But demand response needs is increasing year by year. So, current demand response resource price is highest price than before. Tim: So, tell me about your customers. Who's using the Greenphard system? Takehito: Our main client is food factory and warehouse owners. And also, air conditioner control case, a lot of kind of client is there. Almost all building and office has the air conditioner. So almost all type of facility is our target. Tim: Yeah. I mean, that makes sense that the cold storage chain, the food warehouses, it makes sense that they would be your initial targets because they are such heavy users of refrigeration and electricity. So, you mentioned like the two parts of your business model. So, one is the demand response. But if that signal only happens a couple of times a year, most of the savings must come from the operational parts. Takehito: Actually, FTC saving impact is not small. For industrial users, we can reduce around 40% in maximum case. Tim: I mean, that's quite significant. What are you doing to reduce those costs? Because I would imagine that most of these systems, they're designed to use as little electricity as possible. So, what are you optimizing? What are you improving to reduce the electricity costs by so much? Takehito: We use a lot of kind of technology. So, AI and compressor frequency control technology. We control refrigerator as soft as possible. It's like a soft control of car acceleration. So, usual refrigerator control the temperature in some temperature range. So, we use this allowance range. So, usual control case, when temperature reached upper side border, power on and reduce temperature very high speed. But in our case, when reached upper side range, we control the down speed more softly. Tim: So, whereas by default, most of the equipment is designed to maintain a very specific temperature, you're working with the customer to figure out what range it can fluctuate in and then minimizing the effort it takes to stay in that range. Takehito: Yeah, right. We control the refrigerator temperature fluctuation more softly. And one more way, the more data driven way, if we plot this temperature fluctuation in a heat map, it's very different with the season. For example, the factory makes same product all years. But after monitoring and analyze the temperature data, temperature heat map is a bit different with the season. So, we optimize this temperature distribution. Tim: Okay, that makes sense. I want to dive deeper into the technology and the business model in just a second. But before that, I want to talk a bit about you. Takehito: Oh, thank you. Tim: So, you've got a background both in energy and startups. So you were originally with Mitsubishi Power and you left to join Synspective, which is a big Japanese startup. And then you left Synspective to start Greenphard. So, what made you decide to leave Synspective and start your own company? Takehito: Oh, actually, before I joined Synspective, I already started my own business. So, I shared my thought to Synspective side. So, Synspective is very open mind, so they accept. Tim: So when you left Mitsubishi, you actually left to start your own startup. Then why join Synspective? Takehito: Because I really interested in the space industry as well. When that time my own business is not so large scale, so I can do some business as well. Tim: Wow. And the team at Synspective was fine with this? There was no problem? Takehito: Yeah, they accepted my work style. Tim: Wow. And so how long were you sort of working at Synspective and building Greenphart? Takehito: Around 2.5 years. Tim: Alright. And what was the trigger to finally say, okay, now we're making a clean break? Takehito: My own business growing year by year. So, I needed to focus on my business. So, I decided to leave Synspective. Tim: And you're still in very friendly terms with the team back at Synspective? Takehito: Yeah, of course. Tim: Oh,...
Soft robots are solving hard problems in Japan
Slithering robots sounds vaguely horrifying, but it turns out they're incredibly useful. Soft-robots lack the charisma of their more acrobatically-inclined rigid counterparts, but some startups are betting on the unique role they have to play. Today we sit down with Toru Ichihashi, the CEO Solaris, and we talk about what it takes to turn a university research project into a viable startup, what happens when Japanese VCs decide it's time for a startup to change CEOs, and the most likely path for soft robots to slither onto the world stage. It's a great conversation, and I think you'll enjoy it. Show Notes The creeping problem with pipes How to stuff a robot into an industrial pipe What's driving the early adopters of soft robotics Turning a university spin-out into a business-focused startup When do Japanese VCs decide its time to change CEOs The importance of both funding and marketing partnerships in Japan Can partnerships help Japanese startups go global? Why we don't see more soft-robotics in the real world Why Japanese investors focus more on risk than opportunity Links from the Founder Everything you ever wanted to know about Solaris Watch videos of the Soha soft robot crawling through all kinds of things. Connect with Toru on LinkedIn Leave a comment Transcript Welcome to Disrupting Japan, Straight Talk from Japan's most innovative founders and VCs. I'm Tim Romero, and thanks for joining me. We've been talking a lot about robotics on Disrupting Japan recently, and frankly, that's because there's been a lot going on in robotics in Japan recently. Today, we're going to be focusing on soft robotics. And by soft robotics, I don't mean that they're cute and fuzzy, but that they are non-rigid. Soft robots are robots that can bend and curve and even slither. So today, we sit down with Toru Ichihashi, CEO of Solaris, the makers of the soft robot Soha, which crawls through industrial pipes to inspect and to clean them. It's a natural, real-world use case for soft robots. But of course, things are not quite so simple. Even in Japan, bringing a robot to market is a lot more challenging than you might think. Now, during the podcast, both Toru and I make truly heroic efforts to try to describe how this robot actually moves and manages to crawl through these small pipes, but you really have to see it to understand. There's a link to the videos up on the site of Soha crawling through transparent pipes, so check those out. Toru and I talk about the real challenges of establishing a new market in Japan, why sales partnerships are much more important in Japan than they are elsewhere, and what happens when startups investors decide that it's time for a new CEO. But you know, Toru tells that story much better than I can. So, let's get right to the interview. Interview Tim: So, we're sitting here with Toru Ichihashi, the CEO of Solaris, who's making the Soha robot, a small-diameter pipe inspection and cleaning robot. And thanks for sitting down with me. I really appreciate it. Toru: Yeah, I'm the same here, so I really appreciate this opportunity. Tim: Yeah, in your brand new office too. Toru: Yeah, yeah, just a week. Tim: So, tell me a bit about Soha. What is it exactly? Toru: Okay, so do you have a camera or not? Tim: No, yeah, so for our listeners, it is sitting right in front of us, but this is an audio podcast, so you'll have to explain. Toru: I see. Our target is narrow pipe. Especially diameter is 150 millimeters or less. Just think about social infrastructures. So, many narrow pipes everywhere. Tim: So, is it mostly like water pipes or pipes carrying like chemicals and exhausts in factories? Just all kinds of things. Toru: Yeah, all kinds of. So, we could say this is a kind of veins for social infrastructures. However, these narrow pipes are very small. That is why humans cannot access. Conventional robots also cannot access. So, let's take an example of a factory. When they need to inspect or clean, they stop manufacturing equipment and they... Tim: They like disassemble everything. Toru: Yeah, disassemble pipes. Then by brush, they clean manually. Tim: Okay, so they take it apart and clean section by section. Toru: Yeah, exactly. Tim: And so what does Soha do? Toru: Our robot is -- ket me show you how to move. Tim: Well, it's coming into the same problem of being an audio podcast. Toru: Ah, yeah, that's not good. Tim: But no, no, I get it. I mean, you mentioned before that it was inspired by the way an earthworm moves. So, kind of like sticking out its head and pulling up its tail and sticking out its head and pulling back its tail again, right? Toru: Yeah. So, to move into narrow pipe, conventional robots cannot move. For example, caterpillar, such kind of robot cannot move. People think, okay, that's mimic snake or inchworm. Tim: Because it can't bend in the pipe, right? It can't move up and down. Toru: Yeah, you're right.So, Snake move by winding, so narrow pipe, snake cannot move. Only earthworm can move into narrow pipe because earthworm moves, expand and moving this way. Tim: Pushing, like head pushing forward, pulls up behind, push the head, pull behind. Toru: So, our robot is mimic earthworm movement. Tim: In practice, like how do you get it into the pipe? Can it go in through like an open valve or something, or do they still have to disassemble? Toru: That's a very good question. Such kind of easy operation is very important. So, we have station for the robot to start up. Then this station can be connected with customer's pipe. Tim: Okay. For example, you take off a section of the pipe and the robot can crawl in. Toru: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Tim: Okay. So you don't have to disassemble the entire thing? Toru: No. In case of factory pipes, some cases at the end, open area is there, and also some connection is there between pipe and pipe. So, just disassemble connection only, then connect our starting stations, then our robot can move into the customer's pipe. Tim: That's cool. And how far can it go? Toru: Currently, 20 meters. So in case of factories, 20 meters is enough. Tim: Yeah, I can see that. It's actually quite far. I mean, there'll be some kind of break every 20 meters. And since it's an earthworm, it can even climb straight up and straight down as well, right? Toru: Yeah, yeah. Vertical climbing, no problem. And also these kinds of complicated curves, also we have no problem to move. Tim: Right. So, it can move through very sharp turns and straight up, straight down. Toru: Yeah, exactly. Tim: Well, what I think is also really astounding about this is that it's pneumatic. It's all powered by air. Toru: Exactly. No electric, only air. Tim: I mean, I can definitely see the advantage in that it would let you go into explosive environments. Was that the main reason for going with air or there are other engineering concerns? Toru: Our main purpose is how to mimic earthworm movement. Air is perfect. Let me explain how it works. So, this is artificial muscle. Tim: So, each segment of this earthworm has a kind of an air bladder, an air segment to it. Toru: Yeah. Then let me -- so, this artificial muscle... Tim: We're going to have to turn this off because you won't be able to hear me out there. Toru: So, you can see once air is inflated, this artificial muscle expands this way only. And this way contracts. Tim: Okay. So, each segment would balloon out. And I guess when it's ballooning out, it's kind of gripping the side of the pipe. Okay. And then pulling everything up behind it. So, it's not an autonomous robot. It's controlled by the person... Toru: Controller. Yeah. This is very simple. Move forward, stop, move back. So this robot, inspection and cleaning, we can do simultaneously. Tim: So, tell me about your customers. Who's mainly using this robot? Toru: Our current main target is semiconductor factory. Because semiconductor factories manufacturing process by narrow pipes, such kind of dust, they push it out. Tim: Okay. So, just the extreme demands of semiconductor manufacturing means the pipes have to be very clean. Toru: Yeah, yeah. Once this pipe is sealed with dust, manufacturing line is stopped. So, this is a very critical maintenance process. Tim: I can imagine. But it would seem like these kind of pipe inspections are needed, I mean, across all kinds of manufacturing. Toru: Yeah, of course. Tim: Do you have customers in more traditional manufacturing as well? Toru: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Why I said semiconductor is the first target is because once manufacturing equipment is stopped, opportunity loss is huge. Currently, they are doing manually. They need to stop manufacturing equipment for a day or two days. But by using our robot, just one hour or two hours stop is enough. Tim: Okay. So, their cost saving is not so much the cost of the cleaning itself, but of the opportunity costs and shut down the line. But again, I imagine that's true in a lot of industries. Toru: Yeah, you are right. So, also chemical industries, car manufacturers, all kinds of factories, they have same kind of issues. So, currently our deals, which we are working with, 70 or 80% are semiconductor manufacturers. The rest is chemical factory or car industries. As you said, other industries also cleaning pipes is very important for them. Tim: Okay, but perhaps just not quite as urgent. So, they'll take a little longer. Toru: Yeah, that is why I believe we need to make a business model by semiconductor manufacturers. Then we expand our business. Tim: That makes sense. I want to get back to the business model in a minute. But before that, I want to talk a bit about you. So, you've actually been in robotics for quite some time now. You were at Melton and ZMP. Toru: So, my background is I spent about 30 years at Toshiba. And the first decade, I was software engineer....
What the world really thinks about Japanese robotics
Japan was once the the undisputed global leader in robotics, but that's simply not true today. In fact, with China and America dominating the spotlight, many question whether Japan is even still in the game. Well, last month I had the chance to find out what the world really thinks. At the inaugural Tokyo Humanoids Summit, I interviewed seven global leaders in robotics, and I asked each of them where exactly Japan stands and what Japan has to offer the rest of the world. I'm compiled all their answers so you can hear the full range of what people are saying about robotics in Japan. There are some great conversations, and I think you'll enjoy them. Show Directory and Links Junghee Ryu, Founder and CEO of RLWRLD LinkedIn Company Site Leopold Beer, VP Sensing Division of Renesas Electronics LinkedIn Company Site Mehrdad Farimani, Founder and CTO of MERPHI LinkedIn Company Site James Wells, CEO of Sanctuary AI LinkedIn Company Site Rikiya Yamamoto, CEO of Yamariki Edge LinkedIn Company Site Hagen Wegner, Director at FEV Consulting LinkedIn Company Site Terence Bennett, Executive Director of Bay Area Robotics Association LinkedIn Company Site Leave a comment Transcript Welcome to Disrupting Japan, Straight Talk from Japan's most innovative founders and VCs. I'm Tim Romero, and thanks for joining me. Last month, at the Tokyo Humanoid Summit, I had a chance to interview seven of the leading innovators in the field of humanoid robotics from around the world. Now, I'll be sharing the full interviews on Disrupting Japan's social channels, and I encourage you to check them out. There are some really interesting discussions there. Of course, with industry leaders flying into Tokyo from around the globe, there was one question that I wanted to ask all of them. What does Japan really have to offer globally? How can Japan compete and even regain its status as a global leader in robotics? I mean, is this even possible now? Well, I've collected all of their responses into a single, focused episode for you. You'll see that there are some common themes and also a few surprises. But overall, the world is feeling very optimistic about what's happening in Japan. But you know, my guests tell that much better than I can. So let's get right to the interviews. So we're sitting here with Junghee Ryu, the founder and CEO of RLWRLD, who's building dexterity models for robots. Ryu Junghee, Founder and CEO of RLWRLD Tim: Thanks for sitting down today. Junghee: Thank you for having me today. Tim: You've got an office here in Japan. You've spent a lot of time in Japan. What unique strengths do you think Japan has in the area of humanoid robotics and physical AI? Junghee: One of the biggest pros of the Japanese market is the culture. Think about the US citizens. They hesitate to just embrace the power of the humanoid. But in Japan, I met a lot of their kind of C-suites here. They know the power of humanoid because you guys already experienced the early times and the robot like Ashimo or Aibo. And there are a lot of their animations like Atom, Gundam, Evangelion. So culturally, I think that the Japanese society is ready for embracing the human power. Tim: You know, that's a really interesting point, because in media and popular culture in Japan, robots and humanoid robots in particular are almost always positive and helpful. Junghee: Yeah, the companion of humankind. Tim: Right. And like in Hollywood movies, they tend to be very dangerous. Junghee: Yeah. The enemy of mankind. Tim: Right. You get the Terminator. So that's really interesting. And have you found that in your conversations in Japan and your pilots that companies are more willing and more open? Junghee: Yeah, because the Japanese society suffered about population cliffs since 30 years ago. So it's a long time. So mostly their industry leaders, they understand the urgency, the demands for automation, especially the focus on the humanoid. Already they automated almost everything. But the remaining things should be done by their human level dexterity and intelligence. That's why. Tim: Well, it's definitely exciting times. And it sounds like you guys are doing great things in Japan. Junghee: Not only great things for Japan, great things for all the mankind in this world. Tim: Absolutely. So thanks so much for sitting down. Junghee: Thank you for having me. Tim: I appreciate it. Yeah, thank you. Leopold Beer, VP Sensing Division of Renesas Electronics Tim: So we're sitting here with Leopold Beer, the VP and General Manager of the Sensing Division of Renesas Electronics. So thanks for sitting down. Leopold: Thank you for having me. Tim: So listen, with your time in Japan and at this Humanoid Summit, what unique strengths do you think Japan has to offer the world in terms of humanoid robotics and physical AI? Leopold: Definitely there are lots of things that Japan brings in already today and can bring in in the future. Starting from my company, Renesas, with the broad portfolio of semiconductors, we already serve lots of these applications. But when you look at the specific context of Japan, Japan always has been an innovator in terms of robotics and automization. And I think the Japanese society is much more open to technology than in some European societies. I'm not talking for the US, but in Europe, there's always a kind of skepticism. When you bring in a new technology, okay, what's the risk? And I think Japan is much opener to technology. So having the foundation of these strong technologies companies, and I name Renesas one of them, but there are others playing very strongly in the field of automization. And given this openness of the society, and as we heard this morning, even the willingness of the society to bring in more automation as a solution to solve social problems, but Japan is the perfect environment. Tim: And so do you see this openness on both the industrial commercial side and the consumer side? Leopold: Absolutely. I think there are two sides of the story. On one hand, of course, robot manufacturers, they want to push their solution. On the other side, there needs to be an acceptance and the pull from the market. And I think we have both in Japan. Tim: So Japan might end up being the perfect testbed, the perfect place for proof of concepts to figure out how to make all of this really work. Leopold: I would say yes. That'd be fantastic. Tim: Well, listen, Leopold, thank you so much for taking the time to sit down. Leopold: It was a pleasure. Tim: I've really enjoyed it. Leopold: It was a good talk. Thank you. Mehrdad Farimani, Founder and CTO of MERPHI Tim: So we're sitting here with Mehrdad Farahmani, the founder and CTO of MERPHI. So thanks for sitting down. Mehrdad: Thank you, great to be here. Tim: With your time in Japan so far and what you've seen here at the Humanoid Summit, what unique strengths do you think Japan has to offer the rest of the world in terms of humanoid robotics and in physical AI? Mehrdad: Absolutely. So when I was very junior, young in robotics, Japan was the place to go for humanoids. We had Asimo and we had all these great robots from SoftBank and we had all these different companion robots and social robots. Tim: That was more than 20 years ago. Mehrdad: It was, right? Tim: It’s amazing. Mehrdad: And there were actually, to be honest, there were two countries who were really leading robotics. One was Japan, the other was Germany. So Germany or DLR in Germany, they created some of the greatest robots out there. So has Japan. And Japan was, of course, leading more. And then one of my surprises over the years was that what happens to both Germany and Japan. Germany also, they really slowed down. And actually, we had this funny conversation with a friend the other day and we were like, okay, is it that they slowed down or the other countries they kicked off? Because I remember in 2012 that there were only six countries that they were building humanoid robots. So of course, US, France, Germany, Japan, and we had Iran and then one more country, I don't remember. China was not even among them, right? And now we see that China is actually leading a lot in the human area only in this 15, 20 years. So one of the things is that for me, what has always been interesting about Japan is the culture that accepts robots. People who live with robots and they like robots. And one of the greatest robots, not a humanoid, unfortunately, but one of the greatest robots created in the history of robotics is a robot called Paro, P-A-R-O. It's a robot for elderly care. It's a companion robot. Tim: Oh, yes, yes, absolutely. Mehrdad: There's an amazing story behind it. Technologically, it's competing very well with today's technology and everything. But so what was the story? There was this research center. They built that robot. They built something around 3,000 units. They distributed all over the world. Actually, in Sweden that I'm living, we have a few of them. And they're in the museums mostly. And then they stopped. They stopped the production because they were like, yeah, this was a research project. Research is done. So we don't want to make money out of it. Tim: I see that happening so much. There's so much wonderful innovation and then it never gets fully commercialized. Mehrdad: Exactly. I have two reasons for that, actually, so today my job is mostly, to be honest, advising investors and startups mostly on the human area. And I usually think a lot about what are the underlying reasons behind this. One of the reasons is that robotic companies has historically been created by roboticists. Even today they are. It's only the few past years that they were created by business people or entering robotics. Engineers and roboticists,...
The future of AI looks very different in Japan
Japan is much further ahead in real AI deployment than most people realize. Today we talk with David Ha, CEO of Sakana AI, Japan's clearly most valuable, and arguably most innovative, AI startup, and he explains how Japanese enterprises are using AI in production environments today. We talk about selling advanced software to conservative enterprises, how Sakana is customizing existing LLMs to fit Japanese sensibilities, and why smaller, more flexible routing models will likely win out over the massive, expensive frontier models. David also shares some great advice for anyone starting a startup in Japan. It's a great conversation, and I think you'll enjoy it. Show Notes When it's best build for Japan instead of (or before) going global How to raise money overseas as a KK and raise large rounds in Japan It's actually very easy to start a startup in Japan Sakana AI's three-stage go-to-market strategy The tradeoffs between B2B and B2C strategies in Japan How to drive AI adoption in the Japanese enterprise Designing AI workflows that prevent users from outsourcing decision making Why routing models will win in the market over frontier models What "data sovereignty" actually means in practice in Japan How Sakana AI is adapting existing models to make them reflect Japanese sensibilities David's best advice to founders in Japan Links from the Founder Everything you ever wanted to know about Sakana AI Follow them on Twitter @SakanaAILabs Connect with Sakana on LinkedIn Follow David on Twitter @hardmaru Leave a comment Transcript Welcome to Disrupting Japan, Straight Talk from Japan's most innovative founders and VCs. I'm Tim Romero, and thanks for joining me. To say that AI is hot right now understates the mania. AI startups accounted for over 60% of global VC investment in 2025, and things are on track to be even more AI-focused this year. And while investor and media attention remain stubbornly focused on the U.S. and China, things are moving surprisingly fast here in Japan, although things are moving in a slightly different direction. Today we sit down with David Ha, the co-founder and CEO of Sakana AI, Japan's most valuable and arguably most innovative AI startup. Now this episode's a bit longer than usual, but it is well worth your time, because by the end, you'll understand why the frontier model companies, the open AIs, the Anthropics, might be pursuing a flawed and very expensive strategy, and why there's a real chance for Japan to be a global leader here. In fact, as David explains, enterprise AI adoption in Japan is far more advanced than most people realize. And we're talking about actual production deployments here, not just POCs and press releases, but actual daily use. Now David and I talk about raising capital from both Japanese and foreign VCs, the global importance of AI sovereignty, the best way to drive AI adoption in large conservative Japanese companies, and why AI use in Japan is more widespread than you probably expect. But you know, David tells that story much better than I can. So, let's get right to the interview. Interview Tim: So, we're sitting here with David Ha, the co-founder and CEO of Sakana AI. So, thanks for sitting down with me. I really appreciate it. David: Awesome. Yeah, it's actually really great to have a chat with you, Tim. I mean, as you know, I've been following your podcast for more than a decade before I started a company. Tim: I mean, I love to hear that. I honestly do. Nothing makes me happier. David: Yeah. I mean, I have no idea that I would start a company like 10 years ago. Tim: Let's start with the founding, because the Sakana AI team is really an interesting test case in Japan, I think. So, the founding team itself, it's a mixture of foreigners and Japanese. Tell me about it. Tell me how it came to be, how the three of you got connected and thought this was a good idea. David: It's a really unique, I would say, experiment. I founded this company a little bit less than three years ago. It's myself, David Ha, and Llion Jones, my colleague at Google, who was one of the co-inventors of the transformer architecture, the T in ChatGPT. And when you start a company in Japan, it cannot just be two foreigner guys, especially if you want to be the frontier AI company in Japan. But luckily, I was able to recruit my friend Ren Ito, who used to work at Mercari. And he was sent to Mercari Europe as well to run Mercari, one of the original unicorns. Tim: So, how did you know Ren? David: We worked together at different startup events before. Earlier, also, I worked at another startup briefly called Stability AI. At that time, Ren was working in the UK for that company, and I was working as a contractor remotely in Japan. So, we connected there. Tim: And you were kind of like, hey, I've got a better idea. David: Yeah, something like that. The best way to meet co-founders and colleagues is when you're working at other startups. And when you're working at other companies. Tim: I think that's so true because it is being able to work with someone and see how they work and having that experience is invaluable when picking a founding team. David: Yeah, I totally agree. I think in our founding team, not just the co-founders, many of our employees, the founding employees, are people that I've personally worked with at Google, at Goldman Sachs in Japan, also at other companies like Mercali and Yahoo in Japan, like people that we know. And I think when you've worked with someone before and you kind of know how to coordinate different tasks and work together well, it's like a great mix. Tim: Yeah, yeah. There's fewer surprises, the better, right? So, tell me about the kind of pre-seed team. Was it just you three? David: Yeah, it was just us. It was crazy. I think all three of us have different motivations of starting this company. I'll tell you mine. So, our company is founded in Japan to develop AI technology for Japan. Like when I was looking at your podcast like 10 years ago, there's like many founders in Japan, like they really want to go international right away. They want to move to the valley and try their luck. But there's also other companies that are focused on Japan. Remember this, one of your podcast episodes, like you have so many startups in your podcast. One of them are like focusing on developing the product that produced the best invoices for Japan. Like those companies. Tim: That's a need. But you guys, I mean, I think what's unique about Sakana is that you had a product that, I mean, yes, it's targeted to Japan, but it's truly a global market. And when you first raised money, you went overseas. Your first round was from overseas investors rather than Japan. So why? David: Yeah, exactly. I mean, for us, having worked at Google before and Goldman Sachs before, I think like my experience is generally easier to raise money from overseas markets. Tim: Well, I agree with that for sure. David: Especially in the VC ecosystem. I think in Japan, the VC ecosystem is growing. There's a support, lots of government support as well. But at the end of the day, if you want to have a strong funding round, we wanted to go direct to Sand Hill Road. So, I think what happened was when I started this company, I co-founded with Llon at the beginning. We just announced that we're going to start a company called Sakana AI, an R&D company in Japan. And I just basically sat there working on our tech, working out what we're going to do. And from there, we had many reverse inquiries. Like maybe on Twitter, because I have some following on Twitter as well. Tim: So, inquiries from VCs? David: Yes, from VCs. Basically, all of the VCs reached out to us. Tim: Both Japanese and foreign or primarily…? David: Many foreigners as well. I worked at Mountain View for Google for a few years, and many VCs knew me at the time. I also had many personal connections in that community. So basically, if you have a choice, you might as well try to pitch to Deluxe Capitals, the Vinod Khoslas, the Andreessens, and the Sequoias of the world, right? Tim: So, for the seed round, you raised $30 million. But then the next round, you came back to Japan, and you raised something like $200 million from a series of rounds of Japanese investments. And so why the shift back to Japan? David: For our seed round, it made sense for us to raise from Silicon Valley investors. I think also the nature of the VCs, especially in the seed round, when you raise from prominent Silicon Valley VCs, they want to dominate the entire round. Because the seed round of a company is your highest cost of capital. It's the lowest valuation if your company continues to exist. So, if a VC has decided that they're going to bet on you at the seed stage, it makes sense for them to invest as much as possible. So, there was not a lot of room to involve other companies at our seed stage. We did make room for NTT and Sony and KDDI, but we couldn't. Basically, the first year of our existence is primarily R&D driven. There's absolutely no plan for monetization. As we started out, we wanted to build a foundational R&D company in Japan. We recruited many of our top research colleagues from Google, Prefer Networks, Stability AI. And we set out to actually produce pretty amazing research in the first year, like the AI scientists. Something like that didn't exist before. Tim: And it's actually got a published research paper now, right? David: Yeah. I mean, after two years, it got published in Nature magazine, like the top scientific journal. Tim: That's amazing. David: That's not going to make me money directly as a company, but as a researcher, it's kind of proud that a Japanese AI company can publish something in Nature. Tim: Absolutely amazing proof of concept and proof of suitability. David: So,...
Why Japanese Femtech is so different
Things don't always go as planned. In fact, they usually don't. Four years ago, femtech was both a rapidly-growing product category and a nationwide movement vocally championed by politicians, industry, and the media. As the market began to grow, however, Japan's incumbents took note and took action. The femtech social movement began to decouple from the products. Today we talk with Amina Sugimoto about the future of femtech in Japan, the fragile nature of public promises in the face of corporate lobbying, the likely impact of Prime Minister Takaichi on femtech, and how, despite aggressive lobbying by the incumbents, foreign femtech products are starting to enter the Japanese market. There is a lot of important advice for anyone thinking of entering the Japanese market. It's a great conversation, and I think you'll enjoy it. Show Notes What femTech means in Japan Why its hard for men to invest in femtech -- even when they want to The transformation of femtech in Japan Massive social and political support does not always translate to sales How Japanese incumbents (still) stifle innovation The core challenge in introducing new innovation in Japan Prime Minister Takaichi's likely impact on femtech in Japan What other innovators should learn from femtech in Japan WHat's next for femtech in Japan Links from the Founder Everything you ever wanted to know about Fermata Follow Fermata on Twitter @hello_fermata Friend Amina on Facebook The Kegg Crowdfunding Page Leave a comment Transcript Welcome to Disrupting Japan, Straight Talk from Japan's most innovative founders and VCs. I'm Tim Romero, and thanks for joining me. FemTech is, well, it's just different in Japan. FemTech in Japan is part market disruption, part social movement, part technological innovation, and part bureaucratic red tape. It's something that everyone seems to get behind and support, but at the same time, that support is often slow, sometimes very slow, to translate into real action. Well, today we sit down once again with Amina Sugimoto, founder of Fermata. And Amina is absolutely on the forefront of Japanese FemTech, women's health, and the regulatory challenges that these products face in Japan. Now, since we last had the chance to catch up with Amina three years ago, Fermata has had a change of fortunes and a change of strategy. Amina saw the growing social movement that powered FemTech in the early days start to decouple from the technology and take on a life of its own. And so she restructured Fermata, shrinking the team of 35 down to a small core team, and then refocusing and rebuilding. Amina and I talk about why FemTech is having so much trouble crossing the chasm in Japan, what happens when Japanese incumbents decide they don't want you in their market, and what's really going to be at stake for women's health in Japan over the next five years. But you know, Amina tells that story much better than I can. So, let's get right to the interview. Interview Tim: So, we're sitting here with Amina Sugimoto, the founder of Fermata, and one of the most active advocates for FemTech in Japan. So, thanks for sitting down with us and welcome back. Amina: Thank you so much for having me again. I'm super excited for this. Tim: So, we've got a lot to cover because so much has happened in I guess the last three years since you were on the show last. Just to kind of set the stage, like the word FemTech, it means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. So, what is FemTech? Amina: So yeah, it does mean a lot of different things for different people. Initially, the term itself, people started using it around 2017, I think 18-ish. And it used to be a term that being used between investors and entrepreneurs. And at the time, a lot of sort of entrepreneurs working in sort of women's health, they were having a hard time getting investment. So, they came up with a term to communicate with investors. And it literally sort of back then means the latest technology being applied on women's health. So, it was very broad back then. Tim: So originally, it was more of a financing, an investor-focused term, rather than a consumer-focused. Amina: Yes. It really was. Tim: Interesting. Amina: Because back then, FemTech, edotech, I think all these terms started to sort of appear. Back then, and it still is, the majority of people working in finance are men. And it's not like men's fault, but it's just difficult to communicate about the industry. Like this product is for menstruation, this product fertility, rather than saying that the FemTech sounded a bit easier for investors to sort of... Tim: And I see what you mean. It's not really discrimination exactly. It's just investors tend to invest in what they know. Amina: Or what they like, or what... Tim: What they understand, I mean. Amina: Exactly, exactly. So, there was a gender imbalance within the investor world. And so the term then was used to raise money. Tim: But now it's taken on a much, much broader use. Amina: Yes. So interestingly, the term, so just sort of like around the same time as COVID. And I think that's when the people start to get more interested about their own well-being or wellness. So, when Fermata started, it was in 2019, we started to use the term FemTech for consumers. It was during COVID, so we started to events on women's health, and we started to use the term FemTech. And I think that sort of, it was the right timing. So, the term itself in Japan sort of spread really quickly. All these major magazines, newspapers started to pick up. But sadly, compared to what's available in the US or Europe, there are not many tech products available in Japan yet. It's just that the word simply became a lot more popular than the actual industry. Tim: Is that because of regulations around medical technology? Is it just a Japanese consumer's reluctance to try new things? Why do you think it's? Amina: Well, I think there's a lot of things. And one of it is, of course, deregulation, which I can tell you more about later. Another thing would be that we have a pretty good health system. So, for people in Japan, compared to let’s say Americans, we are less interested in purchasing new products, because it's easier and cheaper to go to a doctor. So, the mentality and sort of the industry itself is a lot different. However, there is a trick. The Japanese health system only covers clinical stuff, not prevention. And women's health, most of it is related to prevention. So, we can only get covered by government if we have a breast cancer. But to prevent breast cancer, the only way to prevent it is to go to the checkup provided by the government. But there's no intention. There's no motivation to create something in between. Something that maybe we can track something at home. Tim: So, last time we spoke, Fermata was experimenting with a lot of different business models and business directions. You were working with a lot of imported products. You had some pop-up stores, a couple of physical stores in e-commerce, and doing B2B consulting. And where is Fermata today? Amina: I made a decision in February 2024 to shrink the size of the company to just myself. The market didn't grow as fast as I predicted. So, February 2024 is when Fermata hosted our signature event called FemTechFest. We had over 6,000 people coming and we rented out the entire floor of Roppongi Hills. But then I realized soon enough, the market in Japan when it comes to women's health and FemTech will hit the chasm. So, we managed to just capture those individuals who's early innovators or those who's interested in this kind of product. But we struggled enough to get into the mass market. So, the women's health industry was hitting the chasm. And then I felt that when I hosted the event of over 6,000 people, we can host an event and bring in loads of people, but it doesn't directly link that with our sales. And there's something wrong is happening. Tim: You know, it is. I mean, one of the things you told me last time we spoke really stuck with me about FemTech in Japan. And I think it goes directly to what you're telling me now. Last time you mentioned that FemTech is more than a product category in Japan. It's more of a social movement. It gives people kind of social permission to reexamine gender roles and to reexamine these conversations that were once considered settled about what's appropriate for women to do and things like that. Can you talk a bit about if that's still the case? And is it more that the interest was more on the social dynamic side than the product side? Amina: I think it still is. So, we couldn't get any of the signature tech products out in the market in the last five to six years because of the regulation, because of the market dynamics were spread. And then people had this high expectation and motivation. Yes, we can now freely talk about our own health issues, period, menopause, whatnot. And that did get to a certain level in Japan, there's a TV shows and stuff. So, the environment around it has changed. But yet it has a lot stronger social movement connotation to it. And then not so much of the business industry side. So, when it comes to B2B business, we get a lot of inquiry from companies. Okay, we would like to do something about FemTech. And I'm like, what do you mean by something about FemTech? And for me, I'm like, whenever we speak with the Japanese, especially the big companies, it's not their fault, but they're just very general. And I guess those people who's responsible leading this project, they're often women. And they have something that they want to communicate. They have these passions and maybe the struggle that they have gone through over the time working in the company. But it's usually like more of a social side and the product development. Tim: Yeah,...
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