00:15
Good evening from Tokyo.
Good evening.
Here is Sandra.
This is Yusuke.
Yes, and tonight we have a very special topic.
Something we kind of agree to disagree.
I mean, like, we talk about the differencesbetween Japan and Switzerland about...
Education.
Yeah.
So, maybe Yusuke, let's start with you explainingthe education in Japan.
Or maybe how you did it.
Okay.
It's maybe important to have as a background.
All right.
Here you go.
You mean education from, like, elementary school?
Yeah, I think kindergarten is not so major yet.
Maybe from primary, yeah, elementary school.
Okay.
So, in Japan, we usually go public school, right?
And some people goes to private school.
Nowadays, I'm not sure.
But you have a choice.
And, of course, private school means usually witha test.
It doesn't matter junior high or high school.
Private school means you have some kind of test orsomething.
To enter?
Yeah, entrance test.
You don't need money to enter?
I think you need to.
It's pretty expensive, right?
Depends.
I don't know.
Depends on the school.
But I'm just talking about...
I'm mixing up with international school.
Yeah.
Sorry.
Yeah, I'm just talking about what kind of choiceyou have.
Yeah, yeah.
And, of course, international school as well.
And when you go to junior high school, I think inmy age, around one third of the class,
do the entrance test to go private school.
And I was one of them.
Yes.
And you skip for this private test, entrance test.
How long did you prepare?
Depends.
Also, like, you want to go, like, highest, thenyou...
Well, I don't know.
Some people start fourth grade, which is like 10years old or 11 years old.
Because my friend, her son just went through that,and he studied, like, for two years.
Like, during, like, after class.
Yeah, I was doing the...
And he passed.
So that's really good.
He passed.
And Yusuke did kind of same thing, right?
Yeah, I was doing the private tutor.
I mean, yeah, go to after school class.
And studied from, yeah, about two years before theentrance test.
03:01
So, but, yeah, this is the kind of important inJapan.
Or maybe Asian country, Korea, I think China aswell.
We do this.
Then...
But still, like, so many people go to the publicschool, too.
And, yeah.
Then high school, some private high school isreally good.
And some public school is really good.
So, again, you have...
For sure, you have entrance test, even thoughpublic school.
And also price are way different compared withprivate and public.
Then after that, university.
I think...
Some people goes university or you have, like, theschool for specific...
Area, like, you wanna be a...
Maybe hairdresser or something.
They go different school.
So...
Specific school, university.
That's kind of, like, the choice you do.
And what was your way?
I was...
I went to private school from junior high.
So with 12?
Yeah, with 12.
And then this school has high school.
So I could, like, escalate it.
And don't have to do another entrance test for thehigh school.
I spent, like, 6 years there.
And why you chose that school?
They have really good soccer club.
So...
And also, it was pretty, like, good for studyingas well.
Yeah.
Yeah, a good level.
Yeah, and the soccer club was really good.
Yeah.
There are now still some professional soccerplayers, like your friends, right?
Yeah.
And...
So it was really funny because some people aredoctor.
Some people are lawyer.
And some people are movie director.
Like, you know, cameraman.
Like, really different type of people.
It was really fun.
And then I went to university.
Then I studied architecture.
But my job at the moment...
My career path is nothing related witharchitecture.
And you went through all of this.
And what do you think is positive out of yourexperience?
I think my highlight was junior high school andhigh school.
It was, like, kind of, like, core time that I havelots of memory.
And then spent 6 years, same people.
I mean, after 3 years in high school, there aresome new people came.
But overall, like, I had really best time there.
06:03
And you still see your friends, too.
Yeah, a lot of them.
Until now.
Yeah.
And...
What about Switzerland?
Wait.
You studied for this entrance test.
What do you think is positive and what do youthink is negative to do this way?
Because if you go higher level school, there arealso, like, smart people.
I saw a lot.
And there is nothing, like, silly, boring or, youknow, this kind of things.
So I was happy to be in that group.
And then met a lot of different people.
They are, you know, smart.
So I didn't have to deal with, like, boring or,like, hitting people.
You know, like, some kids are...
Yeah. How was the preparation for this test?
I woke up, like, every day, 6 a.m.
As a 10-year-old?
No, no, no.
Just the last year.
Like, the final year.
12?
12 and after summer.
And before that, I was just...
I went to, like, 2, 3 days in a week.
This private tutor.
And...
Because, you know, for me, as a Swiss,
I was seeing this from the outside and have notexperienced it.
But wait. You explained Swiss first.
Then people knows why you have this opinion.
Yeah, yeah. But I saw what my friend went throughwith her son.
And then imagining what our kids would have to gothrough.
Like, I see your points, the way you think it'spositive.
Yeah.
But also...
So, in Switzerland.
Maybe now I need to explain our...
See? I told you.
So, in Switzerland, you go to elementary schoolfor 6 years.
And then after, you don't have to do any entrancetest.
You just go to junior high school.
And then from junior high school, we can choosewhether we do apprenticeship
or we go the path to go to the university.
And if we want to go that path, we go to a school.
I don't know how you call it in English. It'scalled canti.
So, you go after junior high school.
Like, after the second grade junior high school,you can go there.
But then you have to do an entrance test if you'resmart enough to enter.
But for me, I was like, no, I want to work. I wantto get my own money.
So, I chose the apprenticeship way.
So, with like 13, 14, I had to choose what kind ofprofession I want to do.
And I chose nurse in hospital.
09:00
And that's what I did for 3 years.
So, thinking as a 10-year-old me having to do likethis important test to go into a good school
because otherwise my future is maybe not good,blah, blah, blah.
I cannot imagine.
And the pressure, like you go to the exam day andyou have to pass and I don't know.
And then, you know, it's not just for me, but nowwe have kids.
And then I see the people that you went to schoolwith.
And they all made something out of their life.
Like, they all have a good job. They all have agood, nice career.
They made something with their life so far.
I mean, they're not that old yet, but like theybuilt something.
And they help each other.
Like, Yusuke's network is amazing.
And I see that point.
And he always tells me, you know, how do you say?
Like, to work for your goal and be determined.
Like, that you pass the test and you're going to agood school.
It gives you like so much strength and you can beso proud of yourself.
I see that.
As a mom, I think, if my child has to do this.
I want my kids to be a kid as long as they can
Because you have to be an adult for the rest ofyour life.
So I kind of like the Swiss way.
How many people in the class do theapprenticeship?
Or like, do you go a different way?
Or some people go to university as well?
It really depends.
So in my village, I think in my class,
two people went to the school to go to theuniversity.
What were we? 20?
But then also, for example, in St. Gallen,
my friends around there, there were much more whowent that way.
It really depends maybe where you grew up, howyour friends do.
Yeah, totally.
If my best friends would choose that way, maybe Iwanted that way too.
But I don't know.
My sisters, they didn't do that way either.
So we all did an apprenticeship.
And I mean, there's bad things too about this way.
Because with 14, you literally don't know what youwant to work, right?
For the rest of your life.
But you have to choose.
But also, it's just three years.
And after, you still have all the possibilities tochange.
Yeah.
And you learn how to manage your own money.
You make your own money.
You work.
You learn how to work.
You still go to school.
You still have to school.
You meet new people.
So it's good and bad, I think in both ways.
Yeah.
Now for us, it's important to find the right wayfor our kids.
I think it was good that I went to this school.
But also, I went for football.
So my goal was like participating in the biggesttournament in Japan.
12:04
And did you?
I didn't.
My one-year younger and my one-year older went.
But our age didn't.
And I kind of lost what I wanted to do after that.
And then I couldn't find it at all.
Because I was focusing on football.
And if my football life ends, kind of ends for thehigh school.
And then I was like, do I still play university?
But wait a minute.
Luckily, you found a really nice girl in Australiaand gave you a new purpose in life.
I mean, that's after university.
So I didn't need to think much before.
Wait, you graduated high school at 18?
Yeah.
So from 18 until you met me, you had no...
Three years, I went to architecture course.
But I thought I liked it.
But at the same time, I think I choose that way.
Because everybody else going to university.
And I needed to choose something.
And then just because I like to see houses.
He really likes to see houses.
Then I went there.
But after three years and I kind of like wanted tostill play football again.
And also studying architecture was fun.
But, you know, it wasn't like I couldn't choosenumber one.
What is that?
Yeah, I know what you mean.
You know, my main things.
And then I needed to refresh my mind.
And I wanted to try again to be successful as afootball player.
So I wanted to go other places.
Then I went to Australia.
Yusuke, I hear oftentimes from non-Japanesepeople.
Like Sandra, in Japan, the schools are focused ongood marks.
And it's so stressful.
And there's so much pressure on the kids.
What do you think about it?
Because you went through the system.
Do you think it's true what people outside Japanthink?
Because everybody has the same uniform.
Everybody is like so polite.
There's so many little rules to follow.
What do you think?
I think a lot of Japanese people learn theirdiscipline.
Because there is a rule and they have to follow.
And a lot of people are following.
And if you're not following, you are kind ofpunished.
Or like you feel embarrassed.
So that's a good point.
But also a bad point is you don't want tochallenge.
Or you don't do something new.
15:02
Or like you're afraid of being different.
That's kind of...
Not everywhere, but I felt a bit.
So right now our son is in kindergarten.
And I don't really feel it at all at the moment.
But it's just kindergarten.
I think the most important thing is the kidsrealize what they want to do.
And then they choose.
Oh, I really want to play football in a good team.
So that's the reason why studying hard, going tothe school, to be a soccer player.
So you think the school system in Japan didn'tscrew you up?
I think even though good school or bad school.
It doesn't matter. You can have a good time.
And you may find something.
But the process is different.
And sometimes it's helpful after 30 years.
And I kind of go to the reunion or something.
And then I find like, oh, my friend is doing thisjob.
Let's ask what they think.
They have the professional eyes.
They're smart anyway.
They have some nice opinion.
And it's nice to take away what they think.
That's kind of like a positive thing.
But I only realized after graduate.
Yeah, you realize later.
Years later.
Yeah, I'm really changing my mind now.
Because before I had the same opinion about Japan.
It's too much pressure, too much discipline.
But now I also kind of see the good.
Because there are so many unspoken rules.
And I feel like the kids here, they really followit.
And that's why Japan is such a great country.
Because this sense is within the people.
But I also see the things.
I feel like, yeah, for me, kids should be kids aslong as they can.
So I guess we're in the best position.
Because we can give the kids the best of bothworlds.
I think in the school, like when you're in thesociety.
Of course you need to follow the rule.
The highest rule would be the law, right?
And other than like once you're outside of theschool.
You don't have to follow anything.
Then you can focus on what you want to do.
So it's really important like on and off.
Like even though you go to school really strict.
You follow the rule.
But once you're weekend or summer, you know, notin the school.
18:01
Then you can do something you like.
But also here I feel like the, for example,elementary kids or junior high school kids.
They're, I can't say everyone.
But like a lot of them are so sweet.
And like on the train, they wouldn't play music ontheir phone.
They wouldn't talk on the phone.
They are like offering the seat.
They're behaving well.
Behaving so well.
And for example, if I go to the park with my kids.
They're so curious.
And they're like playing with my kids.
And asking like they sometimes try to speakEnglish with me.
And like it's so sweet.
And yeah, like it's really nice to see that thereare also still kids.
Like they're playing like crazy in the park.
So I don't think the Japanese school system breaksthem.
I don't think so.
And they're still happy.
But also the people like us, like we realize thatit's okay to be different.
And there are also so many people make the limitby themselves.
And they think they cannot do it.
Because it's out of imagination.
So it's also like kind of like restricting theimagination.
Like you force stop in your common sense that that's not normal people does.
Yeah, I mean if you don't believe in yourself, youhave no chance.
Like you're stopping yourself to grow.
Like you're cooking bento every day.
And you cook even for me.
And you do all the housework.
The house is always clean.
Of course.
And then you do the social media.
And you know like you're doing a lot.
But you're not complaining at all.
And like...
Just before my period.
But like that's like kind of insane also.
Like see other moms like maybe a little bit tiredto do the bento.
Or a little bit tired to take the kids to thepark.
You know these things.
I see you're a little bit different.
Because I don't know.
I always wanted to be a mom.
And I am it now.
And I love it with all my heart.
I mean I also have days when I'm tired.
I mean not every day you're like this.
But you know I see like...
I really enjoy being a mom.
Yeah.
So and as a mom and as a dad.
We have to make so many decisions.
And so right now we're having the discussion.
Because I really want the kids to learn kanji andlike Japanese properly.
21:02
Yeah like we have three different alphabets.
Yeah.
And I want them to master it.
But I really want to also experience life inJapan.
So I thought a good timing to do that would bemaybe
before Leo starts elementary school.
So we would move to Switzerland.
And spend a few years there.
And then we could maybe come back to Japan.
And you know that they get the best from bothcountries.
Yusuke finally gets to experience Switzerland.
It's about time.
So but then also if we're in Switzerland duringelementary school.
This is the phase in Japan when the kids learn kanji and all the letters.
So they would miss out on that.
So yeah I don't know.
Anywhere.
We don't know our future plan yet.
But anywhere we are.
I think I would try to teach them Japanese.
Please. And me too.
You don't have to.
But if you want you can do it.
But this kanji and you know.
I know like 20 kanji.
Like speaking language is the easiest thing to be.
Like join the community.
Yeah.
Just imagine the possibilities they would have.
If they speak English, Swiss German, German andJapanese.
Yeah.
And I've really really.
Like right now we're in Japan.
So I've really focused on them to speak SwissGerman.
And I don't need to teach them like any kanji.
Because Swiss German doesn't have kanji.
So it's easy.
But for Yusuke in case you were in Switzerland.
Good luck man.
I need to study it.
But you know like if you speak the language.
Doesn't matter the appearance.
Like people tend to act.
Oh you're Japanese already.
Like you know like you speak Japanese.
You cook Japanese food.
And then Japanese people say.
Like I saw a lot of comment.
Oh Sandara-san you're like really Japanese.
Yeah I think they really respect the effort.
Yeah.
Like they see that I try.
I mean I could try harder to learn Japaneseobviously.
But.
But isn't it funny that.
No excuse.
Like I should try harder.
But I mean the effort counts right.
Yeah.
Like isn't it funny that.
You're completely European.
Or like not Asian look.
But if you speak Japanese.
People recognize you as a Japanese person too.
You know like.
Oh you're already Japanese.
Like you know.
It's a little bit joking.
But we.
I think people really feel it.
Sure about it.
I think so.
Like if you go other country.
And then if I say.
Yeah I know this Swiss food.
And I eat that.
And I like it.
And they're like.
Oh you know already.
24:00
Like you know.
Like it's so.
Yeah.
Ice breaking.
Like it's so easy.
But I still don't like natto.
I can never be fully Japanese.
That's.
That's.
That's big no no.
Sorry Sandy.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So education.
We still need to.
Education.
Find also.
We need to ask our kids too.
Because it depends what they want.
We can.
Yeah.
Give them the information.
But.
At the end it's their choice.
Yeah.
And also I was a bit.
I changed my mind a lot.
Because for example.
Before Leo started kindergarten.
I had a lot of.
Like negative things.
I saw at the kindergarten.
I was like.
I don't like this.
I don't like that.
Because I always compared to Switzerland.
To my own experience.
So I like.
Dislike so many things.
But then he started.
And.
To me.
It's the best thing.
I ever did.
For Leo.
And.
I'm really really.
So grateful.
We did this way.
And.
I love the kindergarten.
I love his teachers.
I love the friends.
I made there.
The experience I had.
Or still have.
And.
Yeah.
So I really have.
To have a open mind.
And it's.
I think kids can feel.
That I have an open mind.
And I'm open to.
Yeah.
Everything.
Because I.
Went out of my comfort zone.
Hundreds of times.
Because I wanted.
Leo to have friends.
So I made friends.
Yeah.
With their moms.
Yeah.
You're doing really good.
With my broken Japanese.
And I hang out with them.
You went to the public.
Place to play.
Mm.
And then you made friends.
Already.
Yeah.
Like.
New friends.
Yeah.
I.
This is really important to me.
Because I feel like if I have.
A lot of friends.
My kids have a lot of friends.
Mm.
Especially when they're young.
When.
As long as they're younger.
So I want.
School.
I went out of my.
Comfort zone.
Ha.
Zone.
I can't say.
Many times.
And I grew.
As a person.
And I can see.
Our son.
Grew so much as a person.
Think so.
And.
I'm just.
So proud of them.
Me too.
And.
I think we're.
On a good way.
Good track.
And we don't.
自分たちの教育を決めることができるのではないかと
自分たちが開放していることを言わないように
自分たちの方法を考えようとしている
このポッドキャストは
外国から見ると
日本は特定の方向に見えるかもしれない
でも実際にここに住んで
ここで何をしているのか
外国から見ると
みんなの考え方は
あまりにも悪くない
ユースケはとても素晴らしい
彼の考え方
彼の友達が大好き
彼らも素晴らしい人だから
悪くはない
彼らがどのようなことをしたかは分からない
本当に難しかった
彼女の息子と友達を見た
難しいことを感じることができる
でも
あなたにもたくさん教えてくれる
27:04
私たちの子供たちと
彼らが選ぶこと
私はあなたのために
とても誇りに思います
あなたが
良くやった
あなたは
あなたが
あなたが
あなたが
あなたが
あなたが
あなたが
あなたが
あなたが
あなたが
あなたが
彼は
イバイ
ああ
ああ
ああ
ああ
ああ
ああ
ああ
ああ
ああ
ああ
Thank you for listening and good night from Tokyo.
