00:11
Okay, so I had a bit of a, well, I think I called it a contradiction,
but at least a counterexample to the saying please and thank you in all I know is.
It's not that, okay, so what I'm about to say, it's not that please or thank you is
not a good thing, but it's also not always like the default.
So I have a colleague who was talking about where in Spanish, and this may not be all
sort of regions of Spanish, Latin, you know, so anyway, but in this particular form,
they were talking about their child and how they would speak to their child in Spanish
versus when they spoke to their child in Japanese. And in Japanese, I guess, you know,
when you ask for things or you ask them to like come here or please pick that up, there's usually
a please, right? Like there's something like, I guess, pick up, right? There's like a please
of some kind at the end of that statement. I imagine it can also be shorter, but usually
there's a please. Whereas in Spanish, when they would call them over, it's essentially the
equivalent of like, hey, come here. Like in terms of like more, more imperative. It's just, yeah,
it's just command direct. And it's not inherently, like, less polite, but there isn't this, like,
added politeness to the default way of calling to like a child. Now, mind you, this is parent
to child I'm talking about. It's not like culturally, right? So they still use, of course,
their please and thank you. But maybe like sort of, the word is escaping me in English word, but like
省略する?
Like by, um, like short cutting these like pleasantries of please and could you type language.
Maybe, maybe that's sort of indicative of the closeness of the relationship.
I can see that happening in some kind of culture as well. I think, I think Chinese is also the same
way. Like, you have like a polite way of saying the same thing versus the other. But like, it's
03:02
a little bit weird. If after a certain level of, you know, relationship has been developed, if you
keep doing the polite way, it's like, okay, like, we're friends. Why are you being polite kind of
thing? And, and, and, uh, I think also same in French as well, like the way to address you and
to like, uh, I think vous is technically the grammatically correct way of addressing you in
like, are you kind of like, like in, in that, I didn't like a second person, something kind of way.
I, I, I don't know what it is. Like, is that what, what is it when you are referring to the other
person in the same conversation? What is that? When you are referring to the other person in
the same conversation? I mean, you're just, you're essentially calling them out, right? You're
directing. Yeah. So, so when that's happening, if you're friends, if you're a certain level of
friendliness with this person, you would say tu, not vous. And when to make the switch apparently
is a pretty kind of like a personal choice. Um, yeah. Uh, like that's kind of a very deep coded
cultural code and I guess it's not very obvious when that should happen or when is it appropriate
to start calling the other person too. I think that's, that's definitely a good point. It makes
me think about, well, I mean, you know, in terms of Japanese context, right? This is like when you
start dropping, you know, San from the name or you use the first name or you, you come up with
like a nickname of which is a dynamic that I can not entirely follow. And many times I will just
call a person by their name and just hope that the gaijin card is okay with that. So, um,
I think, I think you're fully allowed to use a gaijin card still. Yeah. I think that one
sails me off a little bit. Um, but yeah, that, that dynamic, it isn't, I think quite as clear.
Well, maybe I don't feel like it's quite as straightforward in English, but I think in
English there's, uh, a sort of complicated tension between what, you know, formal or
polite language looks like. That's true. I think English language, it's harder to, um,
draw the line there. Um, like when do I say can and could, right? Like when you're asking for a
favor, like, can I, or could I, like it has a slightly different tone, but like, am I always
consciously thinking about which one I'm using? Fuck no. No. Also bleep no. Um, but, uh, yeah.
06:08
So what's, what's this making me think of? Um, when we are describing things like can and could
and will and would, and there is, and this is where I think it gets murky, like the official
way to become more polite is to essentially, you know, move things into the past tense,
which is where you get the can could type stuff and to add layers and phrases that make it more
acceptable for the other person to say no, of which is very, it's very similar to other languages,
right? The politeness is essentially like, usually in the ones that I'm thinking about,
this might not be universal. It opens up like freedom to sort of say no and gives the power
dynamic to the other person. And, but yeah, yeah. But like you said, the use of will or would,
or can or could, or really not that important. Like if you're asking somebody, for instance,
to open a door, can you open the door versus could you open the door to a few people?
They'll probably recognize a bit of a difference. Most people probably won't even be able to tell
you what the difference was. And mostly it's not going to matter. I actually had a student here.
I was an alumni at the previous job I was doing, ask this question because they were very worried
about the use of cans, wills, coulds, like within all of these contexts, right? Because it just,
it just doesn't seem super clear. And it took a little while of back and forth,
because I'm thinking about it and going, I think the answer here, sadly, is that like, it doesn't
matter all that much when you're fully communicating, but there are, there are some
who will care. There are some who will care. And so if you want to know what's like the golden,
the golden rule, the golden rule is move it into the past tense and make it as like indirect as
possible by using these sets of phrases. For example, you know, can you send me a reminder
tomorrow? Versus would it be possible for you to send me a reminder tomorrow? And there's a
would or could and a possible or a maybe within there. And that is a like, maybe not even like,
it's a, it's definitely politer. Is it necessarily more formal? I don't know, but it's, it's politer
technically. Yeah. Huh. Yeah. And like, but English also prides, prides as if English has
09:07
a personality, but it prides itself on being direct. I feel like that needs to come with a
caveat though, because from a very formalized language, like Japanese, coming from that kind
of background where there is a little bit more established rule on how to communicate depending
on the other person's status with respect to yours, et cetera, et cetera. There's a little
bit more clear cut rules that manifests in the grammar. Whereas in English, because it's
less clear cut doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. And I mean, people who are worried about
sounding accidentally rude are most likely not the people who are actually rude. So
they never have to worry about it. But, um, I do, uh, have a funny sort of my own mistake story,
um, that I can give you in a couple of minutes, maybe. So I came from high school where for some
reason in your last two years of high school, you are suddenly allowed to address your teachers
with their first names. So before that, until grade 10, you address Mr. Johnson, Mrs. Smith.
And, but like suddenly when you hit grade 11, you can call them Adrian, Judy, whatever. And, and that
was a thing. And, and nobody told us why, but it was a thing. And teachers also fully expected you
to transition from that as well. Right. And, um, so I got used to writing emails to teachers being
like, hi, Adrian. Yeah. I'm going to need like a couple of day extension to this homework. And
I carry that same attitude to my us college people. I did see where this was going. Okay.
One of the first time I had to actually write a personal email to my college people was to my
Dean of international students, because I don't know. I think I had some questions about visas or
something. Right. And I was supposed to, I think, uh, address her as Dean, blah, blah. I didn't, um,
registered that I am supposed to put the title, like her, her, her title as Dean, right. Because
I have received a email that went on like a mass email to the incoming international student.
Okay. She signed herself off as Lisa. So I was like, oh, well, she's Lisa. And I thought,
12:05
dear Lisa, I have some questions, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then she responded politely
to my questions and also told me just FYI, for, for future reference, when you're addressing,
uh, professors in the us colleges, you should address their title, you know, professors,
doctor appropriately, and followed by the last name. Uh, that's the typical rule. And I was like,
oh, dot, dot, dot. Is that the email you sent back? Oh, dot, dot, dot. Because I was like,
hi, Lisa, I got a question. Okay. Okay. First, that does sound like it was, it was nicely
handled to give you another perspective. They could tell that it was an honest mistake. Yeah.
Okay. How, like, how did you feel after that? I have a strong opinion that's about to come out.
So I'm trying to ask how you felt about that situation. Oh, no, I just felt like, oh, oh,
shoot. Like America has a different culture. You know, my international school was very British.
And maybe like referring to teachers with their last name, with their first name thing was like
a very British thing that I just didn't know that didn't exist in America. And, um, you know,
the whole new country I'm entering in. Yeah. Yeah. Very, very true. So I, I am glad that you
did run into someone who gave you like the other way, essentially the way that this Dean, uh, Dean,
blah, blah, blah. Um, gave you this input was useful because what you were given was,
was the safer playbook. Yeah. Right. Because, and this is where I have a strong opinion about this.
I think that in the educational space that at just does not matter. Um, like I know,
I know some discussions, at least in the States. And these ones I think are fair is that
is that the decision of when to use a title also comes with a gender history,
right? It comes with, I'll, I'll give a title to the men, but I won't give the title to the women.
I'll treat the women as if they are like the friendly family type, like, Oh, they're just
fun. And like, there's a, I don't, I will not say, and I do not believe that this is always the case.
These are not always, these are not nevers, but the existence of this is a real thing. Um,
and intentionally or not, it's also created a swell of making sure respect is given where it is
15:03
deserved. Right. And I think that should be deserved for everyone at a baseline, but I mean,
like if somebody has the title of doctor or professor, then you would be best to sort of,
you know, demonstrate respect for the title by using the title. Um, and especially when you
don't have a sort of existing relationship with this person. Yeah. You don't know. And I think
that's fair and fine. I do think that so much weight gets put on it sometimes that the poor
students don't end up sending the message, which I think is much worse. Um, but I guess the rule of
thumb is if you don't know, add professor in front of it, especially in that, you know, school
context, right. Add Mr. For the first email. And then after that first email that you address them,
you can follow how they sign themselves off as, yeah, it's, but then there are people who sign
off with initials too. So that's like confusing. I would, I would say, let's, yes, let's agree
with as a starting point. I think it's a fairly good, it's a fairly safe. It's a respectful way.
Nobody's going to be pissed by addressing you and by like professor or something. Right. And it's
actually, it's even okay to go higher than you think. So like for somebody who might be a lecturer
position, but you're not really sure what that means or who they are or something. Yeah. Just
you can, if you're really nervous, just go for professor. They are still your teacher.
They can correct you if they find it uncomfortable. Exactly. Yes. I think for everyone,
except for my advisor, I went with professor, blah, blah. Unless they insist that they're like,
please, no professor, just call me Marissa or something. Right. Like unless they insisted,
I think I went with professor, blah, blah for during undergrad. In grad school, my advisor
was like very quickly, Asami, no, like no, no, no professor, blah, blah here. Like, you know,
stop it. So, so, so that was easy. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cause, cause I also, I, I've,
I think I still kept professor to my advisor while I was taking his class or like if I'm sending an
email regarding the class, but then he caught me doing that one of these days and he's like, Asami,
why? Called out. So I was like, okay, okay. I just thought, you know, you are my professor while
18:08
you're still, while I'm still taking your class. And he's like, what are you talking about?
Yeah. This, I think that's a good demonstration of the fact, the fact that people are just
different. Right. You might just find out that professor doesn't care. It's not a big deal.
That also reminds me, I have another thing I want to talk regarding these email etiquettes,
but it's more funny than this. Let's go to the next one. Okay. All right. Let's move to the funny.
That's it for the show today. Thanks for listening and find us on X at
Ego de Science. That is E I G O D E S C I E N C. See you next time.
