00:11
Okay, well, that was a very productive discussion about friendship. Thank you for that.
But we still haven't got to the bottom of the problem, which is you don't have friends.
シティフレンズ! We don't have シティフレンズ yet.
Yeah, and if you're listening to this and you're like, what the hell is シティフレンズ?
Listen to the episode before this so that you can understand this new concept of シティフレンズ.
Okay, we got that out of the way. So, シティフレンズ, we do need them, right?
Yeah, just, you know, weekends, if you...
Weekend activities, with someone that has nothing to do with your work.
Yeah, just chat about, you know, daily stuff, like problems you may have.
Yeah, and I also feel like it's so important for us to talk with people outside of work,
because our work people tend to be similar kind of personalities, right?
Like, we're researchers, we are nerdy, we like to obsess over very specific problems.
And it's hard not to talk about research.
Exactly, yeah.
If you're with other researcher friends.
You need like a 異分野の、違うジャンルの友達。
全然違う、そう。
So, the place I usually find these people is my ballet studio.
But this takes a long time, hear me out.
So, for me, ballet studio is a place you go, you do your class, you get out.
You don't chit-chat, you don't like go to coffee afterwards.
Like, that's not what you do with your ballet friends.
So, you won't really chat with other dancers?
Is it very quiet?
That will happen very slowly.
Usually, if I'm going to an open class, I don't talk to anybody.
Like, I might, you know, if the other person is extremely friendly,
and they're like, oh my god, it's so hot today.
I'll be like, oh yeah, it's so hot today, or something like that.
But I won't discuss, you know, my life anxiety with them or anything like that, right?
And so, like beyond small talks, I don't really talk at ballet studios.
Which is changing for me here in Hong Kong.
Because the open classes I go to are very small.
So, in the US, I...
Actually, it was kind of a similar story for in the US.
03:03
Like, in New York, open class is massive.
You know, 20, 30, more than people at any given moment.
Different face every time.
And so, you don't...
Like, yeah, you don't really talk or get to know them.
Or if you do, it's like, happens very, very gradually.
Whereas in the small town US, you know, 90% of them are regulars, even if it's open class.
So, they get to know me.
But even then, like, it took me five years for me to feel comfortable talking about,
like, what I'm doing for work or something like that.
Like, actually, I was really surprised that some of them
wanted to come to my thesis defense.
Yeah, like, I just did not expect that from my ballet friends.
So, that was a pleasant surprise, a very nice surprise.
But here, my open classes are like five or six people.
So, I, again, do see the same face every day.
Sorry, not every day, every time I go there.
And it's...
Yeah, it's gonna...
Like, the sort of friendship development might be faster than five years.
Just because, you know, less people to get to know too.
But again, I still don't really...
Like, it will still take time.
Yeah, like, it's funny.
It's really funny because when you go to ballet, you're, like, sweaty.
You're very frequently subpoenaed.
And, like, in leotard, which is, like, the most revealing thing you can wear,
you're basically naked in front of strangers.
And you're, like, sweating together.
You're, like, embarrassing yourself in front of all these people.
Because, you know, like, but that's the same for everyone.
Like, you know, you're gonna fall off from your pirouette.
You're gonna miss your jump.
You can forget your combination, things like that.
And there's, like, a strange familiarity that builds with that.
Like, you sort of, like, even your closest friends might have never seen you dance.
But you see each other dancing with your ballet friends.
So that's something special.
And I also find that if you did ballet to a certain degree,
we have very similar upbringing.
Like, our childhood was basically school, ballet, and home.
Like, in that triangle, back and forth.
We're all pro at doing homework at the back of my mom's car and things like that.
And that's definitely sort of, like, a shared universal experience, which can bring us closer.
So I think one of the reasons for the, you know, the friendship is fostered slowly,
06:04
rather slowly, in that kind of situation is that once you try to get too close to someone who's,
you know, who may not be your comfortable, you know, friends with each other,
then that will make you, you know, not, how to say, it's uncomfortable to go to
your classes anymore, right?
If you find that person, it's not really, you know, you cannot share your thoughts or like,
you know, you have different...
Or like, yeah, God forbid that you, like, piss each other off accidentally.
Yeah, yeah.
So that is why maybe people, you know, like your classmates, I mean,
may want to keep a distance, certain distance,
just to make sure that you have that class for you, you know, to go.
Right, yeah, like, first and foremost, we have this space.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And we keep that available for everyone.
And then, like, if we decide to sort of slowly take the risk,
then maybe we can just be more than just, like, ballet friends.
But yeah, so I mean, having a shared hobby, I guess, is one.
And it's better if it's the kind of hobby that you go regularly, like, ideally at least once a week,
maybe multiple times a week.
And because, like, during class, you cannot talk with each other.
So, like, you don't really have that much pressure to talk.
You're just, like, sharing the space.
And I like that about ballet classes.
Like, you don't...
Like, everyone has a common understanding that you're here to dance.
And, like, making friends is just, like, omake, you know.
So that's definitely helpful.
And I like that.
In every city I move to, I usually first Google.
Like, before even my apartment, I Google, where are the dance studios?
And where can I take classes at?
Because I know that that's guaranteed to make me happy, basically.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
So what about, like, how's your climbing coming along?
I haven't been to the gym for a while.
Is that replacing that?
No, I haven't been to the gym for a while because I've been busy.
Maybe I should go back.
Would you like to do this once a week or, like, multiple times a week?
If it were just you?
If it were just me, I would go there once a week, maybe.
Okay.
Because it has to be something that you still enjoy by yourself.
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Yeah, I should go there once a week.
Maybe tomorrow I will go there.
Okay, yeah.
09:00
But yeah, at that rate, like, it's going to be slow is all I'm saying.
Like, it's going to be sometimes it's really nice, but it's very slow because that's not
your primary reason to go to your climbing gym.
Yeah.
Other than that, I don't know.
I generally don't know how people make friends outside of work.
Like...
I don't know.
You just don't talk to strangers on the street, you know, walking.
And then people say, you know, hi, can you become friends?
Oh, now I recall someone we know.
We both know.
Like a common city friend?
I don't know.
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Okay, okay, okay.
I know who you're talking about.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Y-san.
Y-san.
Yes, yes, yes.
Oh, yeah.
I can't really be like Y-san.
I think we shouldn't make him an example because I think that's a very special case.
It's really special.
Yeah.
To be able to pull that off.
No, it's too...
That's not for everyone.
Yeah, outlier.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, it's too difficult.
I can't really do that.
No.
Maybe that's why people go to bars, you know, because, like, depending on the kind of bar
you go to, you, like, I don't know.
I have this impression of, like, bars because I don't drink.
I don't know.
But, like, quiet place.
Like, this is not your izakaya, right?
Like, this is, like, a quiet, like, otona no ba, right?
And, like, you're talking with the bartender and, like, you know, you become friends with
bartender and then there are other people who are also regulars at the bar and the regulars
plus regulars become friends, like, that kind of thing.
And, like, with the help of alcohol and a little bit of influence.
So your suggestion for me is to go to a bar.
Yeah.
I don't know if it works.
Like, I know it doesn't work for me because I cannot drink.
I didn't know you don't drink.
My body doesn't...
My body doesn't tolerate very well.
Used to be able to, but now it's just, like, I cannot even finish, like, a glass of beer and
I get really red and people usually stop me when I'm getting really red.
So, and now it's just like, well, I'm not even tipsy.
And, like, what am I drinking for, you know?
Like, I don't even get the benefit, supposed benefit of, like, getting tipsy and getting
loose.
I'm just like, it's okay.
But I do like the atmosphere of the izakaya or bar.
12:00
Like, I don't mind being in a circle of people who drink.
Yeah, you can have fun with it.
And I'm sipping on my ginger ale.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay, so I have at least two plans.
You can try that.
Yeah.
One, to the climbing gym.
But the probability might be low.
Second.
And also you have to be consistent, you know?
You have to be consistent with these climbing gym or, like, activities because, like, they
need to know that you come here regularly too, you know?
Which day of the week and what time I would be there.
Right. I mean, yeah, maybe not quite that intensely consistent, but, like, they need
to know that, like, you exist and that you come here semi-regularly.
Like, you need to be recognizable.
Right. Okay.
Good point.
Good point.
Yes.
Very good point.
From tomorrow, I will resume my climbing.
Okay.
Yeah, from tomorrow.
And do you have an otonano bar you can go to?
No, I haven't found it yet.
I've been to some bars.
But you like drinking.
I used to drink a lot.
Not anymore and not much.
I can drink.
But you still, like, wouldn't mind fancying a couple of drinks at the end of a long day
or something?
I wouldn't mind.
It's just that I don't usually go by myself.
So it's a little bit, yeah, it's a bit awkward.
It doesn't happen to me.
You can do this in cafe, too, like, during the daytime.
Cafe is fine.
Like, if you have a favorite place to go to.
And again, but you have to frequent there.
You have to go there semi-consistently so that they recognize you.
Like, your potential friends can recognize you.
I see.
Yeah.
I don't know.
And I guess, like, the classic friend of a friend method, right?
You know, mutual friends.
But it's hard.
Like, sometimes you're a friend with this person for a very specific reason.
And that doesn't guarantee that I like the friends of this person that I'm friends with.
Right.
You know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, definitely.
I said a friend, like, 10 times in one sentence.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think I understand.
I've had sometimes, especially when I'm back in Japan.
I think it's a thing.
I don't know.
But sometimes I'll be having dinners with a friend.
And they're like, oh, like, so-and-so is nearby.
Do you want to, like, meet my friend?
And my reaction to that is like, uh, no.
15:02
Usually.
Because I'm like, I'm here to meet you.
I don't care about your friend.
Um, but maybe when that happens, you should say, yeah, sure.
And share a dinner with them.
Yeah, I won't mind meeting my friend's friends.
Yeah, like, do you have friends who have a lot of friends?
Let me think.
I actually don't know who has many friends among my friends.
Yeah, I think you need to identify that node.
And the hub person, the node person.
Oh, accessing the node.
Yeah, like a hub.
Yeah, exactly.
Then you can just, like, expand your network like that.
Through the hub, yeah.
Okay, okay.
Yeah, so maybe your homework is identify the hub.
Okay.
And go to the climbing gym consistently so that people recognize you.
Go to a cafe or like a bar regularly.
Also, also create this consistent presence outside of your house.
So that people can see me.
Like, recognize me.
My existence.
Yeah, I mean, I don't know.
I don't know what people would do at a cafe, honestly.
But this episode is already long enough.
But I'm gonna, like, ask you one more thing.
Like, I don't know.
When I suggested this bar idea, I had no idea.
Like, it's not practical for me, right?
And so I wouldn't do this myself.
But I just imagined from, like, pop culture that this is something people do.
Having said that, when people did come up to me when I'm, I don't know why, but in my college,
I had a few incidents where I'm studying in a library and people come up to me to, like,
compliment me or ask my number and stuff like that.
And I, unfortunately, none of that led to anything because I usually find them creepy.
But, like, when, like, do people do that still?
Is that a thing?
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know the recent culture.
But, strangely, that reminded me of a really interesting, well, funny experiences.
Shinkansen express train.
Yeah.
So there was a one time when I was visiting a friend on a Shinkansen,
a boy came by to me and we started to talk.
This boy was much, much younger than me.
18:02
And I was in my 20s.
Oh, no, no.
Okay.
Maybe even younger in my, I can't really remember.
But then he asked me, he wanted to take a picture with me, a photo.
Okay.
And then he wanted to send me those photos to my address because it was, like,
Pre-phone number era?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Pre-kata era.
So he asked me my address and he wrote me this kind of really nice long letter.
So that was really strange, but it was really, I don't think it happens that, yeah.
Yeah, like this way of, like, it's sad that these interactions tend to have this underlining
um, like ulterior motives of, like, wanting to get a date with you or something like that.
If it wasn't for that, like, it could be just, like, a nice way to get to know people.
But he was really a young boy.
You don't know that.
Like, that doesn't stop him from hitting on people who are, like, 10 years older than him.
Maybe he was really mature.
I mean, who knows?
Maybe you just were radiating so much friendship energy that he was like,
I gotta be friends with her.
Who knows?
Now, maybe I lost that at one point.
Yeah, maybe.
There's a possibility that I lost that, you know, like, I don't know, like, energy that
says I need friendship, I think.
At one point, right?
When and where did I lose that thing?
I don't know, man.
I don't think I ever had that.
And then another time, this was also on Shinkansen.
Maybe you need to take Shinkansen more.
Maybe that's how you make friends.
That's a place.
Yeah, yeah.
For me, there was another guy.
I was with, I was actually with my mother on our way to somewhere.
And the strange guy, he was with his wife.
And suddenly, he started to talk to me about something.
And he said he was a writer.
And he gave me his book, I think.
And he also gave me a, oh, toshoken?
I can't remember.
He gave me something else, too.
I really don't know why he started to talk to me and he gave me all those stuff.
Like, when I was with my mother.
So that happened a long time ago, too.
Maybe you look like you really like books.
Yeah.
21:00
Okay, so I think...
I think this is a pattern.
I think you need to use Shinkansen more.
Right, yeah, yeah.
I will do that.
Yeah, I think this is about time I take Shinkansen.
So now we have a solution, right?
Potential solution.
Yeah, instead of flying to Okinawa, you should have taken Shinkansen.
Right.
Why did I do that?
I should have taken...
Yeah, you had all of, everywhere from Kanto to Okinawa, all of Kansai.
You could have met anyone along the way.
But you took a one-hour flight.
Yeah.
That was my huge mistake.
Yeah.
And that would have been a work trip.
So your research institute would have paid for that.
Yeah.
And you can just say, I'm scared of flights or something.
Yeah, I should have made it up to make new friends.
Okay, so now we have a potential solution.
All right, yeah.
Very, very good.
Nice.
That's it for the show today.
Thanks for listening and find us on X at Eigo de Science.
That is E-I-G-O-D-E-S-C-I-E-N-C-E.
See you next time.
