00:11
If I could risk using the wrong words, I would say maybe there was a time,
what's the kind of speed, like the kind of organic progress speed maybe that like science should
take? It should be like new scientific knowledge should come with a lot of pondering and a lot of
considerations. And that might not mean annual publications. It might actually mean like one
decade before you can publish something. But like that was acceptable. That was okay. Because we
had a lot of unsolved problems. And nobody was like at each other's throat. I must be the first
one. Right. And like, there were enough problems. Yeah. And then you I think that's where you see
lots more of like the communication like, I didn't get into like the, you know, trying to
read up on historian scientists, right? Like their little, their little tit for tat sort of thing.
But I know a number of people who have. And like, there was, there is definitely like an awareness
of like each other in the field that's a little bit better. Obviously, this also, right, this
also happens when there is less people in a field doing a thing. When you have a growth of people in
the field, there's obviously changes and challenges that come with that. But there is something about
being able to be like, hey, I'm working on this thing here in this location doing this. If somebody
else, like in this case, I could still be like somebody else is doing this just in a different
institution, slightly different setting. Both of our stuff would be valid because neither of them
alone will necessarily like hammer home a, an absolute final, like clear point. You know,
I had a science communicators thing pop up the other day with regards to,
it's not key, but vaccine nonsense that people keep going on about and like, you never talk
about the risks. And there was, there was a whole, you know, watch this, hold my beer.
And it was, it was about like, I think 50 or 60 references, right. That like, you know, you go
through and I'm checking up and I'm like, Jesus, like every, these are at the end, these are just
the studies on risk for like mRNA vaccines, like specifically in this category, right. That's how
many studies bring you to the conclusion that like these things are safe. But it's not one alone,
right. And we are talking about them and that's just the way that it happens, right. Like,
oh God, but it, but like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, and I'm not saying, oh, I wish I was like
03:00
born when science was more interesting. I'm not saying that. I like definitely am very glad that
I can use citation managers and I can use scholar things. Yeah. Lots of caveats. But like, I think
there is something to be a little nostalgic about when it comes to like, you know, the sort of
the speed at which we expect things to change and produce new knowledge.
And how much that has changed over the past, even like, you know, like few decades,
I think nobody expected people to be publishing so frequently or like so readily before the age of
like 35, you know, in order to secure a decent professorship job. Like now, like, what do you
mean? You don't have a MacArthur grant and like, you don't have like, you know, all these like,
you know, accolades before you're like 30 and then like, you know, and you're trying to be a
professor, like, laugh, laugh, laugh, right? Like, like, that's like, that was not the case before.
And like, I think I think we've like, blew past something. Yeah.
Not only have we messed something up, we've messed people up in those situations, because like,
a whole generation of people, like when when the people if they do all of those things,
there is a minutia of a chance that they walk into their next position, like into, let's say,
the professorial position with any real type of preparedness, right? For like, actually like,
managing people for caring for the people they're trying to guide, to mentor, to teach, to like,
you know, there's that. And we give them so much, and we give them a ton of power,
the next generation. And on top of that, you've messed up every other student, myself sort of
included with this, there's like this twisted, grinding mentality that confuses and sort of
disorients, not in a way that's healthy, or helpful, right? Disorientation, literally killed
people. Yeah. Like, and that's, that's not even like, I mean, mind you, that's, I don't want I
don't need to know the numbers, right? Like, they're higher than I want them to be like,
I'm not trying to be bleak, funny, that just bleak. It's just bleak. It's just bleak. It's
the laughter you hear, audience, is the sad bleakness that's escaping from our hearts that
have been damaged by PhD programs. Exactly. Like, we don't know how else to process this.
Like, you know, yeah, I could, I could tout all the therapy I have. But sometimes humor is the way,
because you need to just like, it's bleak. Like, it's not, it's not pretty.
Like, it's, it's, it's really not. And like, yeah, but all of this to say, it's just like,
you know, it made me think about what's right and wrong, or like, what's right for the moment,
and what's wrong for the moment can change so readily in our times. Right. And when you live
06:05
in that kind of things, like, like that kind of sort of era, you know, we still need to live and,
you know, give ourselves at least an illusion that it was meaningful. And in order to do that,
like, we still need to be able to think for ourselves. And you we cannot always be outsourcing
our thinking all the time, because, like, the chances of our satisfaction, if we 100% offload
our thinking is very minimal. And, and the danger is, like, we're so spoiled with these technologies
nowadays, they're so readily available, without most like, like, how many people actually know
how chat GPT works? What chat GPT even stands for? When they use chat GPT? Right? But like,
we cannot undo that millions of people use chat GPT every day, like self included. And, and do a
lot of work using that. Yeah. And do I know every inner workings of chat GPT? Probably no. And,
but that's the world we live in now. So like, now, now we need to think, okay,
given this kind of environment, and how quickly things change, like, what are the things I want
to hold on to for myself? You know, what are the principles that is going to guide me when this new
upheaval of, you know, OS changes to the society happens? And, again, don't have answers for this.
But these are just questions that prompted me when we had our conversation.
No, they're, they're brilliant questions. These are questions that probably come up in various forms
of my own sort of space. And I did. My, my not answer, but my action towards them is that
complete, not always complete, but that intentional drive for helping others, specifically students,
become more flexible with themselves and the ways that they think and act and consider and
because it's just not important to be like, trying to drill something home, unless they can stop and
take a look at what it is that they're doing. If you can't stop and take a look, you can't make a
decision. Yeah. Right. I think if there's like one skill I want my student, my kid, whatever to like,
gain before they like fully start participating in this society is like the ability to zoom in and
out of like, the world. Like, sometimes it's really important to go deep, deep, deep into
09:04
whatever topic, maybe even yourself. Sometimes it's equally important to get out, out, out,
zoom out all the way and like, forget that you are an individual, right? And both are important.
And the ability to kind of like, do the mental gymnastics that way, I think becomes really
important in like navigating. And yeah, the flexibility you speak of, I think is, is that
right? Like the ability to kind of zoom really heavy in and zoom out when it's necessary and when
to call that zoom in and out action. Yeah. Like, that's sort of like, I'm still kind of trying to
make it work for me, right? Here's, here's a good example. Just sitting with it, right? Yeah. Just
sitting with it. There's nothing more to be said there for the moment, right? Required thinking,
zoom in and out, hold that space. Because sometimes if you're just running at something,
it might be fine for the moment, but like, you'll probably get something out of just taking a
different look at it, right? Just, yeah, trying to like, don't, you know, don't, don't kill yourself
over thinking, but like, like, give yourself a moment, right? To sort of really decide what it
is you're doing and why you're doing it. And, you know, how does this thing sort of impact the big
and the small and like... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it's so easy to autopilot your life,
really. And so hard to, you know, consciously do this even harder than, you know, any of our
ancestors. Because things didn't happen to them. If they didn't make a decision, like all of the
things happen to us. Yeah. Without us ever making a decision. Yeah. If things, things might happen,
but they would happen at a pace in which you might not be like, constantly freaking out about
it either. Or like, you might not constantly be aware of it. You can still stop, you can still
slam at the red button that says stop. Yeah. Right? Back in the day, like now, now we just cannot,
it's just humanly impossible to put halt and like, don't do. Yeah, the halt is just so much
more aggressive. Right? And yeah, mind you, we're, we're definitely dancing with like the,
we're not intentionally doing this, but it happens when we talk about the past,
and we compare it with the future. So many terrible things in the past, right? Like,
oh, yeah, you know, I mean, yeah, you can hit the brakes. I'm so glad I don't die of chickenpox.
Yeah, yeah, like, you know, like, exactly. You know, we could hit the brakes on the fact that,
oh, you don't want more information coming at you, for instance. But like, yeah, you can't halt,
12:04
like, it doesn't change the fact that you could die tomorrow, much more readily by any number
of diseases that exist. And like, oh, yeah, yeah. So what we're, what we're pointing out is perhaps,
yes, leaning into that, like, oh, it would have been so, you know, this, this less of things.
So that we could take more time with stuff is something we're looking at,
which to apply now is possible. But it requires what definitely feels like and might be
going upstream from from a lot of what the the norm and the the sort of societal current is
telling everyone to do it, which is to, you know, constantly be switching around and
doing this tool using that tool using this thing. And yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Moment of silence for back in the days when we had the moment of silence.
I want a moment of silence that is back in the days when the moment of silence existed,
not for the death and risk and like other things that existed.
Okay, not not not not that kind of like permanent silence.
This is twice that we've leaned into death in two episodes.
Um, this but the the silence in the essence of like, either being able to and or taking the the
the agency of slowing things down to a point, maybe minimizing the stuff coming at you,
not being flooded with stuff all at once, so that you could take your time with something
and develop it internally and externally.
And you can choose what to take in.
Yeah.
And ignore.
Yeah, with with just that filtering.
Yep, just a little bit more intentionality would be great. That would be
You said it beautifully.
Done.
Hooray, silence for everyone.
That's how we'll end, silence for everyone.
That's it for the show today. Thanks for listening and find us on x at
Ego de Science that is E-I-G-O-D-E-S-C-I-E-N-C. See you next time!
