00:11
It was like a truly genuine wonder, like, I kind of want to try and see if that works.
It's a very almost naive question of like, I kind of want to see what happens if I do this.
And from that kind of like a very vague and fluffy ideation to like, okay, well,
I have the ability to and access to read journal articles. So let me look up if people have done
anything similar already. And like, the more paper I read, the more I get confirmation
that people haven't done what I'm about to propose. And the more confirmation I get that
like, it does look like a plausible thing to do. And then I got really excited. But like,
I wanted to get sanity checked, right? Like, I didn't want to be like, off on my own little bubble
without like, knowing what the people in the field has done, especially because I keep telling you,
but this field is relatively new to me. I've made a pretty big switch from what I was doing in PhD
to my postdoc. So I've contacted a professor who, to my knowledge, is one of the like,
most experienced person regarding my problem. And also, someone who wasn't like, too, too senior
to the point that he'll be so out of touch with what's required. And when he gave me the
confirmation, like, you know what, people haven't done it that way. And like, that does sound like
a worthy thing to try. That was like, a huge relief. Basically, I just kind of like, iterated
over and over, like, reading more, trying to convince myself, if this like, is good enough.
Right. I mean, this is this is a balance. You're striking another balance there, which is normal.
Yeah, which is like a balance I need to strike.
Yeah, it's part of that process of trying to demonstrate without basically doing everything
before being funded and supported to do it, right? Like, there's a tug of war here, but...
And because I don't have like, a previous research to build off of, I basically had a lot of
convincing of myself to do before I can put words into my proposal to like, make it sound convincing.
And, and I still don't know, you know, what, how, like, if they will like my proposal,
that's a different, that's a different metric than if it's a good proposal, right? Because it could
be a great proposal, and just not match what they want. So that's a different story. But like...
03:04
That's true. Yeah, fair.
I feel like it's it's something like, I'm excited enough now that even if I don't get the funding
from this particular agency, I'm like, willing to look into other funding agencies who might
take up on this idea. But yeah, so like, I feel very excited about it. But yeah, it's a, and I
can see that this is a very uncomfortable kind of level of uncertainty for, especially, I think,
especially if you are a successful grad student, who, who, who delivered all of the products,
all of the demands that your PI threw at you.
Do you mind if I, if I try to connect some of this, this, yeah, the,
so the experience that you've had at this particular stage, right, where you're in a
position that you have some of that, I'm going to call it freedom for the moment, there's,
there's maybe a caveat for freedom, but freedom to be able to investigate, consider, sit with the
ideas, let those ideas kind of form slowly as you continue to maybe read, maybe do other things.
Maybe you're even doing sort of hybrid or cross pollinating type stuff where you're getting
ideas from different angles. This type of, using maybe more food analogies here, but this stewing
of ideas, I think, comes in with what you're trying to get at, which is the ideas are something
that need the time and the space and the opportunity to grow, as well as some sort of foundation to grow
from. And in grad school, as much as it's maybe often touted as this is the place that you become
a researcher, and like, your dissertation is the thing that you've defended that is yours,
and you now know how to ask these research questions, that's not practically the case in,
I don't know if I would say a majority, but many situations for students, because they're
under different pressures as, say, students and researchers to sort of learn, but also to
do what their PI needs versus be able to feel that they can confidently take an idea,
attempt to use the space and time devoted them to explore it, and to come up with their own
questions. So you have arrived at a space that, arrived, you have gotten yourself to a space
that has also given you this chance to sit with your ideas, to kind of execute them in your mind,
to consider them, to see what other people are talking about as problems and questions,
06:01
and this seems to have helped bring these ideas up, and then you could develop them further, right?
Yeah, yeah, like, I'm not claiming that my ideas are, like, super original or anything, but
I do feel confident that after having done all of the lit reviews, it seems like
at least to my knowledge, people haven't done it, and that's because there's very few people who are
able to bridge this kind of wildly different fields, and I happen to be one of those people,
so it's, like, nice to get to this place of, oh, I would need to do this several more times
with different research ideas to really feel like I got a knack for this, because this is just,
like, n equals one example still, but, like, I am pretty excited to find myself in this space
where I seem to have enough foundation for the chemical reaction to take place in my idea space,
and something that is unexpected and exciting kind of came out of that, and I, yeah, like, it's really
kind of interesting. It's, like, not the experience I had in grad school. Like, in grad school, I think
I was, like you said, too busy kind of building my own foundation to be able to do this kind of
chemical reaction in my head, and now it's a very different type, like, it's a very different
mode of thinking, I feel, than the ones I've trained really well. Like, the whole verifying my ideas,
making sure that no one has done it, that part is, like, my grad school training, 100%,
right? Like, you know, that's what I got training on, how to read critically, how to source the
information you need, and, you know, like, sieve out the bad ones and, you know, only take the
information from the good ones. Those are my grad school training, but, like, the very, very beginning
phase of this, of, like, this, like, very fluffy idea forming in my head, that was a new experience
for me.
That's, I think that's an experience that I hope you get to have more of, but also I'm glad you've
experienced it so thoroughly here, right? Like, this is a, you know, if somebody is to experience
a, like, blossoming of an idea that seems to come from just, like, the amorphous collection of
09:03
thoughts and things and knowledge and training and, like, that is not a common experience.
Yeah, like, I mean, not that I have a sympathy for it, but I now understand why some PIs get
really defensive about their ideas, because... Yeah, so, actually, to maybe link to what you
were saying with, like, you know, the, is my idea, like, original or good or this, like,
sort of judgment space on it. Yeah. There's a whole lot more I think we can talk about in terms
of the way that people interact with other people in these spaces and how they treat other people's
ideas. Yeah. And how they treat each other. But what I'm going to get at in very short terms here
is the idea that you've created is still, I would even go so far as to say that it's, like,
the creation of it, right? This sort of blossoming of the idea is itself a wonderful thing.
And then the rest of the process is also wonderful. It's just that there's so much
stuff around it that makes it feel as if it's going, and it will undergo various types of
judgment and critique and, you know, this sort of, like, breaking down-ness, which,
because of the way we frame it a lot of the time and because it's attached sometimes to our funding,
our quote-unquote success, then people are much more likely to get defensive,
and especially when it's tied to you, right? If you're like, this is mine, this idea is not only
my idea, it is me. Right. Then this is how people get defensive. And it can be easy to have that
effect when it is just so potent. And it feels so precious, right? Yeah, yeah, it does. It does feel
precious because it's not every day that I come up with these kind of things, right? But, like,
I also, like, do, yeah, like, I completely agree. While I understand where this defensiveness comes
from now, I have a little bit more idea. I'm not going to tolerate that. Like, I don't think it's
okay. But I can see why it's, like, so personal to them. And it feels like an attack to your
personality if your ideas are being criticized. But, like, that's also the point of science,
you know? Like, not criticizing, but, like, you should look at whatever results critically,
anyway. So. Yeah, the problem isn't with the critique. It's the problem with the environment
surrounding the critique. Yeah, yeah. Like, having, yeah, it's not exactly the comfiest space
to be judged. Your ability, your, you know, like, your own worth, to a certain extent. Yeah.
12:03
Yeah. This attachment of the thing to your self-worth. This is a whole other discussion.
But, yeah. Yeah, this is something I'm going to have to, like, get used to if I want to
be in a place where I get paid to come up with these fluffy ideas, right? And, you know,
need to get used to being rejected or finding out that my ideas were shit. And, you know.
Or without judgment that the idea just wasn't the thing that was being sought at that time,
right? Like, there's also just that. It could just be that. It could be, like, it could be
a good thing on its own, but not exactly the solution for the problem that I was looking for.
That's also possible. And you've got a space to do it in, right? You're in a position that,
to link this back and sort of bookend a little here, the, you know, not wanting to do this
because it involves that generation of ideas and the weight and the heft that comes with it,
you're also in a space where it feels, like, maybe comfortable enough to do that.
For now. Which is not a
temporary state of being, right? But, like, I can say the same for, like, my own relative
situation. But there is a difference between being in a state where you are, like, constantly
pressured to be doing somebody else's thing, for instance.
Yes.
And in a state where you are given the opportunity to do your own thing while also kind of
working, you know, as needed, right? Or something similar.
Yes.
Where you have more freedom.
Yeah. I do count myself pretty fortunate to be in this kind of headspace.
Yeah.
Like, at this stage of my life, career, whatever. And, yeah, yeah. I don't know.
There's no sort of nice conclusion to it. But I just wanted to share this, like, weird experience
of finally, after what, like, so many years of rigorous training, to feel like,
ah, maybe this is what they were talking about. Like, maybe this is why my, like, 60-plus-year-old
professor wakes up every day super excited about science, you know?
Wow. Okay. Yeah. There's, like, some sort of...
that it becomes almost addictive, maybe. It's, like, it's a beautiful addiction, but it's...
Yeah. I think I see a tiny, tiny bit of why that might be the case.
Yeah. Okay. Nice.
Yeah. That's it.
Ideas are cool. So...
They can be cool.
When given the time and space. So, you know.
Yeah.
All right.
15:04
That's it for the show today. Thanks for listening, and find us on X at
EgoDeScience, that is E-I-G-O-D-E-S-C-I-E-N-C. See you next time!
