00:11
Hello, Asami. How's it going?
It's going. You know, things are going.
I feel that way too. But we have something special today, right?
We do, we do.
Okay, so we do this monthly installment of 科学系ポッドキャストの日.
And we self-identified, you know, 自称科学系ポッドキャストの人たちが集まって同じテーマで話す。
And produce different episodes, you know, interpret the theme however the way they want to.
And then kind of share all on the same day or same sort of period of time.
And we, you know, it's kind of pretty fun to listen to what other people have to say about the same topic.
Like, last month we did 女性の活躍でしょ?
あれも結構いろんな切り口というかいろんなperspectiveがあって面白かったし、
その前はフレンシップ。 That was also pretty fun.
So, this month, after like being part of this 企画 for like a year, we're the host.
Hooray!
Can you... Hooray!
Okay, okay, thank you. I was like, you know, give me something here.
I would clap, but it would ruin the recording, so...
Yeah, you have become a better podcaster now.
そうなんですよ。今年じゃない、今月は私たち英語でサイエンスしない人がホストなんですよね。
And the theme for our month, and I have thought long and hard about this theme, and I'm actually pretty proud of this.
テーマはね、アツアツなんですよ。
I think it's a really... まずさ、最初にアツアツって聞いて、「は?」ってなるじゃん。
So, I want you to think that.
It's like, huh? What are you talking about?
Then hopefully they will click, right? That's one.
But I think it's one of the funny phenomena of Japanese language where same sound means so many different things.
I think it's called homonyms.
Right?
And by chance, there are different versions of 熱い and 熱力の熱い.
03:09
And it's September, still freaking hot both in Tokyo and in Hong Kong where I am.
So let's just talk about how hot things are.
And I'm very curious to hear what other people have to say about their relationship to things that are 熱々,
whether it is scientific or otherwise.
But for this month's theme, 熱々,
I think I used up most of my brain space in thinking about the theme
rather than thinking about what exactly I'm going to talk about.
So forgive me, listeners.
I'm going off of the things I kind of spent my five years in PhD worrying about every day.
I think they'll forgive you.
It's fine.
Oh, good.
And it's one of those concepts in, I guess, physics, physical chemistry,
that when I first heard the word, I was like, this sounds like a name of the spell or something.
It's a cool move that you need to pay in your game in order to be able to use it.
So that's quite a connection since I know that you don't play games.
Yeah, I'm talking off of multiple leaps of imagination.
Yeah, yeah.
But doesn't it sound like?
It does.
It 100% can.
It sounds like a really cool move that you can pull out in like a street fighter type game
where you're like, and then like, insert the name of the, you know, move.
Yep.
And the word is...
Which has yet to be revealed.
Okay.
Which is yet to be...
Oh, I'm about to say now.
Drumroll, please.
All right.
I would do it, but I'd ruin the recording.
Damn it.
The word is supersonic expansion.
Cost $39.99.
When I first heard it, I was like, I have no idea what that is, but that sounds really cool.
I think that's how most people react to this word.
Supersonic expansion.
And when you really break it down, it's really not as cool as it sounds like.
But it is a very cool technique in that the coolness of this technique, this method,
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is almost in its simplicity, how easy and how reproducible it is to create.
Because all you really need is a very high pressure region,
immediately followed by very low pressure region.
Okay.
That sounds easy enough.
Yeah.
What it does in my field of ultra fast molecular dynamics,
we're interested in what molecules are doing while it's being energized.
And so the ingredient one of the experiment is we need a molecule.
And ingredient two is we need something to energize the molecule.
Something to energize the molecule that's all taken care of by the laser system.
But now we need to find a way to bring molecules to where the laser is and make them interact.
And to do that, what we do in my lab, and this is certainly not the only way,
people who use supersonic expansion for gas phase molecular dynamics,
more or less do something similar or something in the line of this.
And you bubble through a liquid sample of your interest.
So you first have a liquid, usually pretty volatile sample,
and you bubble through with a carrier gas.
Then your molecule enters the nozzle, which is very, very, very small exit.
Like the aperture of the nozzle is very, very small.
We call it orifice sometimes as well.
But it's in the orders of microns.
10, 20, depends on how small you want it to be, the exit to be.
But I think we used both 50 and 150 micron nozzle.
It's very tiny.
Nozzle.
And then when you have, you know, so you have all of this air that's have a lot of pressure
added to it to carry to the region where the nozzle is.
So you have high pressure of your molecule at this nozzle.
And it becomes even higher because now all of these molecules have to squish into this,
you know, 100 micron exit.
It's like when everyone is trying to, you know, flood into your Black Friday sales,
and you have one door open and, you know, everyone from the car park is running to it.
First come, first serve, right?
And so the amount of pressure at the local nozzle vicinity is extremely high.
And then that nozzle is sticking out into the region, the next chamber,
the next room that I'm talking about, with a very, very low pressure.
So suddenly all of these high pressure region becomes super, super low pressure.
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So low to the point that it's like being sucked out from that nozzle.
All of the molecules are being sucked out into this giant space,
giant relative to the size of the nozzle, right?
So what happens as a result is an expansion.
It's like a cone of expansion from the nozzle as a tip.
And then suddenly all of your molecules are being sucked into this bigger chamber
that has much, much lower pressure.
And in my system, this was like fractions of millibars and very,
very low compared to few millibars that you go at the local nozzle.
So that was enough to create this expansion system.
And the speed of expansion at local level speed of this expansion
is faster than the local speed of sound.
And hence, supersonic.
Nice, nice.
The supersonic part is almost like an afterthought.
It's like, oh, when you do this, it's so fast.
It's actually faster than the speed of sound.
Let's name it supersonic expansion.
And are you following what I'm doing here in terms of how the molecules are traveling?
So if I keep on with this Black Friday sales analogy,
it's like all of these people coming to the single gate of, I don't know, Costco.
I don't know where people do Black Friday at.
Well, it depends on who's listening, probably,
whether Costco would be the one to think about or some sort of big department store.
Yeah, department store, concert hall, whatever.
You have a flood of people going into one tiny door.
Yes.
And then imagine if that door opened and suddenly
you have a giant black hole on the other side, sucking everyone in left and right.
Instead of being sucked into one spot.
Yes.
This got a lot darker than I thought it would.
Like, I mean that as a joke, but I also mean it as like,
now all of the people are sucked into a black hole.
I don't know if we have to go that far with the analogy,
but if you want to continue, I was just, I was taken by surprise.
So it's not like I'm casually hinting at the darkness of capitalism or something.
Ah, okay.
Got it.
I wasn't understanding the intentions.
I was not, but now I am.
Okay.
So there's a black hole on the other side of this entryway.
Yeah.
Anyway, but on the other side of the department store,
right, let's just stick to the department store.
People have places to go.
Like they're not all going for one thing.
You know, they all disperse into different parts of the department store
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because of the sucking tantalizing force of capitalism.
I don't know.
Now we're definitely fighting to keep that hidden message.
Yes.
They are drawn to all of the sales that are distributed throughout the store.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because before they enter the shop, they have one entrance.
They have one tiny entrance that everyone had to go through.
But once they're in the store, they're free to roam around.
They can go anywhere.
Right.
And, you know, molecules are less complicated than humans.
So, you know, they expand all in all directions pretty uniformly.
And that's why we get a cone of expansion.
And so this pressure difference, which is achieved both by having
literally different pressure in one region and the other,
but also created further by, you know, having a tiny, tiny entrance
into a big, big chamber of much lower pressure.
It helps with the expansion.
And so that's the sort of like step one of my experiment,
like the supersonic expansion happens.
Right.
And what it does that's extra cool for my research is that not only does it expand,
it cools down the system of molecules.
So molecules coming in are at room temperature or sometimes we cool it,
but, you know, it's only cool to like zero degrees or, you know,
at most liquid nitrogen temperature, like minus 70.
Still pretty hot as far as molecule goes.
Molecules still are moving a lot.
They have a lot of kinetic energy and they get pressured into this tiny place,
still moving, still have a lot of energy, still vibrating around.
But when you expand so quickly, it's like being put into a fridge all of a sudden,
like expansion happens so quickly that it actually cools down and cools down
for molecules, mean less movement, less vibration, less movement for the molecules.
And it actually cools down to few Kelvin temperature, which is, you know,
if you think that everything stops at zero Kelvin,
zero Kelvin, few Kelvin is pretty close to that, really cold.
And that cooled molecule, what it does is it gives us, the scientist,
sort of like nice background to look at for whatever other molecular movement that happens
after it, right?
So everyone's frozen.
So when you hit it, hit the frozen molecule with a laser,
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it's a lot easier to see the tiny, tiny movement of the molecule there.
Then if everyone was moving around, dancing in their own way
and trying to see a very specific movement that happens after,
like the before and after laser shot is a lot easier to see.
If your before is like a nice, cool, calm system,
then you're trying to see a tiny movement after you fire the laser with it.
Sure, makes sense.
So for both, it achieves the cooling for the molecules
and also let us deliver the molecules in a fairly efficient way to the system.
And it's pretty simple to design, at least conceptually.
You did mention before having, yeah, that it wasn't quite so simple.
If we go into the whole, what a pain it was to maintain this high VAC system
that was, you know, at least a third of my PhD,
that would be another two hour episode.
And no one wants to hear that right now.
We're here for the heat and pressure, not that of grad school.
If anybody learned anything from my little spiel of supersonic expansion,
is that one, there is a real legit scientific term called supersonic expansion.
And it sounds cool and it does cool things.
Is that a joke?
It does cool things?
You know, I keep saying cool.
And I'm like, damn, I keep hitting this pun, even though I'm talking about hot things.
I'm like, but it is cool.
I don't know how else to explain it.
Look, heat, cool is simply the absence of heat.
So it's still part of the heat.
That's true.
It's still hot.
It's just relatively less.
It's just a lot less heat than before.
A lot less heat.
It's still a heat.
Still heat.
Yeah.
It's not zero.
It's not zero.
Yeah, so I mean, I don't know.
I don't really have an ending to this story.
But I thought it was a cool, again, I'm doing this again, but really interesting concept
that ties together both heat and pressure, which is in line of the theme, Atsu Atsu.
And it's just always fascinating to me how things that are so ubiquitous and everyday
thing like heat, like pressure we experience every day in different capacity, maybe not as
dramatic as going from nozzle pressure to the vacuum pressure.
But we interact with a lot.
18:01
We're somewhat familiar with the concept of it.
But it's still something that some of the smartest people wreck their head around
in research, trying to get it just right.
Yep.
So.
Because it was important, like you said, right?
It was if you want to be able to see something that has very small, very subtle movements,
then everything else around it, your background has to be slow, right?
It has to be non-moving.
And so the way to get that is apparently supersonic expansion.
Because if you let a bunch of really excited, moving around molecules sort of, well, expand
into a very open, open, because there isn't anything else in there, right?
It's a very low pressure.
There's nothing else inside.
Then they can relax essentially, right?
They use that kinetic energy in the space.
And now they're done, right?
The motion is done.
There isn't a collision to move them forward.
They're not getting bumped by other customers.
Exactly.
There's no one around you.
And you kind of just chill.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And they, you know, it just sounds extreme with it being supersonic.
But by the end, it's actually like really laid back.
So.
Yeah.
And yeah, I just think it's really interesting.
I like thinking about heat and pressure in the molecular level.
Always funny to think that like, I can only touch these things and feel something because
there's like, you know, atomic vibrations, molecular vibrations.
Yeah.
And we don't even think about it.
But it's pretty insane.
The balance that this earth achieved so that we can live.
And we're not just like, you know, wake up, suddenly your eyes are popping out of your head
or like, you know, imagine that world.
That would be pretty terrible.
I will politely decline imagining that world.
And maybe we should have flagged the listeners for body horror at some point.
But, you know, that's fine.
Well, is that PG-13?
Oh, well, I mean, it depends on how vivid your imagination is, isn't it?
As I sit here working hard to not imagine that.
Listener discretion.
Yeah.
A listener discretion is advised is, I don't know, it's something like that for movies.
But.
But I heard that you have way more sort of tame and more kid-friendly episode.
21:01
Yeah.
I mean, the theme of hot.
I don't know if I would have called it kid-friendly until you did.
But sure, it's kid-friendly.
Relatively speaking.
Relatively speaking.
We're not talking about, like, supersonic expansions and then the horrors of your eyes
leaving your body.
You don't need to repeat that.
I see.
Oh, it's about the word hot and how we use it to describe, well, food or things we consume.
Right.
Right.
Turns out hot also has multiple meaning in English.
Yes.
Not just in Japanese.
Yes.
And it is there is a layer here that I'll ask you a question about in a second.
But let's start with the English one in terms of like, if I say that something I am.
Well, let's say something I'm eating is hot.
There are at least three interpretations of this.
And I'll share my inspiration for this later.
Where you have it's hot as in it just burned my mouth because it came out of the oven.
Right.
It's hot temperature wise.
You then have hot spicy, which is capsaicin.
Some people might know the capsaicin word, right?
It's the specific chili pepper chemical that gets the same response from our brains as
hot temperature.
And then you have like, if somebody says hot, they might also actually mean just spicy,
like not at all the same type of hot that those other two are.
But it's got grouped together just because people say hot to sort of mean all of these things.
OK, so just so that I'm following.
Hot, when your food is hot, it could mean because the temperature is high and that is
burning your tongue.
Yep.
And so that's one.
Two, it could be hot in a sense that it's like your habanero peppers are hot or your
spicy ramen is hot.
But number three, there's the spiciness that doesn't necessarily require the burning sensation
that number two option creates.
But linguistically, we still describe as hot.
Yes, it's been co-opted into that word, right?
It's what's kind of for.
Yeah, yep.
24:00
Following.
Right.
So, yeah, great.
That is it took me a couple of times to actually understand what was being broken down here.
So this categorization, these categories of like hot as in temperature, hot, spicy as
in chili pepper, like the heat that you get from eating those particular spices and just
spicy, which is sometimes also called hot, but the spicy one that's not chili pepper.
These three categories were from at underscore Masala Lab.
So M-A-S-A-L-A Lab on Instagram, where he was describing, I think, in a great way, breaking
down kind of the differences between these.
Yeah.
And then I went a little bit further for my own understanding.
And so we have the two hot ones, right?
Hot and hot, spicy, those things feel like temperature, even though one of them, chili
peppers, doesn't need temperature.
It doesn't need to be actually hot for you to feel like it's hot, for there to be a response
that it's hot.
And that is because both the temperature sort of difference and the capsaicin trigger the
same signal, not signal protein, I'm forgetting the words.
They signal the receptor in us that says, hey, that's hot.
This is the TRPV1 receptor for anybody that's interested.
But it activates with capsaicin, so it's sort of at super low concentrations, binds to this
receptor and says, please activate, right?
Please be open and on so that we get hot.
And so your brain cannot tell the difference.
Right, exactly.
Yes.
And so you can't tell the difference between those ones, right?
Hot versus hot, spicy with capsaicin versus like a hot coffee or a hot tea or something.
The difference is non-trivial to sort of tell apart.
This is all under a caveat of like, when we eat or drink things, we are not just eating
or drinking single molecules.
There are many things happening in there, but that's the big factor.
If we want to spread it down, yeah, strip it down.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then you have, actually, apparently, ginger and pepper do the same thing as capsaicin.
So they trigger the TRPV1, but not at all as significantly.
So you need a lot more of those two to get it to trigger.
And so it also has other effects, right?
We taste other pieces in those two things.
OK, OK.
27:00
OK, so that covers like hot and hot spicy.
And then you get the kind of spicy part, but also the word is like, I think, pungent.
I would probably apply pungent here, which are the ones that sort of get your nose tingling
a little bit.
Like wasabi?
Like wasabi.
Yeah, exactly.
So wasabi, mustard, and this was also in the list, radish can have this.
I guess horseradish is a type of wasabi.
You're right.
You're right.
So horseradish also is a type of wasabi.
So they're in that family, right?
They sometimes get confused as like this hotness.
And they're usually cooked together with things, right?
I mean, these are all mixed in.
Yeah, because I was thinking like the way we describe wasabi flavor in Japanese is karai.
Right.
And karai is the same for, yeah, like capsizing pathways.
Hot is also karai.
Right.
Yes.
I knew from, you know, since I was a kid, I'm like, those are not the same thing.
But we just refer to them as karai because that just apparently is how it is.
Yeah.
I mean, this is like in English where I'm not sure of how it gets to there.
You know, people just use that like they use a word to kind of cover a lot of things.
Right.
But it's still pretty interesting that just the sort of going back to the temperature hot
and the capsaicin hot.
Yep.
It seems like regardless of different region, culture, linguistic background,
because it's so similar brain function wise, at least English and Japanese agreed that
these are the same words.
And we can refer to two things at the same time, even though being like temperature hot
is wildly different experience from eating, I don't know, super hot Doritos or something.
Yeah.
But one of them, you can survive at much higher concentrations than temperature,
just going to infinity or something.
So, but yeah.
So it's interesting that, you know, two separate cultures and languages both arrived that like,
aha, well, we're going to use the same language for this kind of phenomena.
And then turns out there's brain level similarity in experience of, you know,
experiencing high temperature and experiencing high concentration of capsaicin.
Yeah.
Yeah.
30:00
That's really interesting.
It's really, really interesting.
I was certainly, I'd remembered something like this in the back of my mind from many years ago,
but it was way more interesting to sit and sort of walk through what those were.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because it's sometimes you can get, you know, we have receptors.
They're essentially tuned to react to specific stimuli,
but you can have other stimuli to trigger kind of the same thing, right?
It's just like trying to fit a new piece of the puzzle in somewhere or,
you know, you get something like that.
Um, what was the, uh, well, for anybody that's interested,
the sort of mustard wasabi one as well, it's close, but it's not the same, right?
These are the TRPA one.
So it's actually a different receptor entirely,
even though we sort of cross like the feelings together.
And I don't believe that one's activated by heat,
but this one is supposedly the one that helps us recognize poisonous gases.
So it's like that, like sort of the pungent sound.
I mean, you're probably in like a high danger if you're at a concentration that you can smell it.
Yeah, exactly.
So maybe, you know, if anybody wants to look that up, they can,
but that is, they fall in that category.
So there's also this interesting, like, heat and,
and so there's a heat and spice sort of overlap that happens,
sounds like, as you pointed out, in English and in Japanese.
And some of it is just, it's a confusion between,
like having lots of sensation for spice at the same time.
And sometimes that comes with something related to heat or otherwise.
Yeah, and I know for a fact that olfactory research, like,
you know, research about the sense of smell, like kyūkaku no kenkyū,
is one of the most understudied of all of the sensations that we possess,
because people can claim medical sort of proof for being blind or something,
or not being able to hear to get hearing aids, right?
You can do that, but no one really gives you anything
if you claim that you cannot smell things.
No, no, I don't think, no.
Until COVID actually, maybe, but like...
True, there might be more now.
Like actually COVID has accelerated olfactory research,
because it suddenly became one of the sort of telltale signs for COVID infections, right?
And only when that happened, and when that persisted for the absence of sense of smell,
33:02
when it persisted for many, many months, people were like, this sucks.
This is actually bad.
This is like, this is not good.
And even though people have, like throughout history,
people have reported different levels of, you know, having different smell sensation,
like it's pretty common thing that a pregnant woman experiences smell very differently
when they're not pregnant or before or after pregnancy.
And people have been telling them, they never started a whole research about it.
They're just like, ah, woman being woman, you know?
Yep, yeah.
And turns out this is a huge discomfort and inconvenience in life when you cannot smell,
because you cannot enjoy food and food being pretty fundamental part of our being,
you know, like sucks when you cannot enjoy what you used to enjoy.
So the pressure thing though, which I almost forgot to get back to here.
Mm-hmm.
In terms of these tastes and responses we get by, you know, consuming things,
right, by eating or drinking.
Yep.
There was something I hadn't thought about, but does make some sense.
You know, like the numbing sensation that some spices can create,
but like the suddenly you can't feel, right?
Like you cannot tell that you are touching your lips, for instance, right?
Or like the signals for taste have been diminished.
This is apparently a result of the Meissner receptors.
So Meissner, M-E-I-S-S-N-E-R, which actually are the things like in our lips
that trigger under pressure.
So like when something sort of pushes or touches or affects the exterior of the lips,
you get that signal sent to your brain.
And there is another chemical,
which I think I forgot to say exactly where it comes from.
I'll have to take a quick look in my notes here.
Ah, no, this is the molecule from Sichuan or Sichuan peppercorns.
So the thing in like apple tofu.
And it's for any chemists out there, hydroxyl alpha sensual,
of which sensual I was like, that's an interesting description of the molecule.
I didn't look into it further this time.
But it triggers those receptors from what I could understand
36:00
and gives you the pressure effect.
It signals pressure.
But my best guess is that it's either like overloading them
or it's triggering them sort of repeatedly, like very quickly.
I didn't find a clear answer.
There probably is one out there,
but it's activating those same like the lip is being touched.
And I guess some of the studies found that that tingling sensation,
which is a vibration, right, that you're getting,
was on the same range that like Hertz range as the Meissner receptor.
So that's how they're pinpointing, like,
these things are probably the ones being triggered
by your Sichuan peppercorns, causing your lips to like tingle.
Oh, so when we're experiencing tingling sensation
from eating Sichuan peppercorns, are our lips vibrating?
I think that's what I was understanding.
I, again, not a biologist, but like, so the study,
which I think I have in my notes, so maybe I can share that later.
Yeah, we can put it out there, yeah.
Was, how did they, they put some of the alpha hydroxyl sensual,
like sort of, they got the lips tingling, right, for participants.
And then they gave participants, like,
the equivalent of a vibrating toothbrush.
I don't know.
So they could figure out, like, you know, you could tune it to the...
Oh, how much tingling there is?
What's the tingling you were experiencing?
Yeah, essentially that.
And so that told them...
Okay, so I guess that doesn't really tell you
if your lips are actually vibrating extra hard.
Right, I think...
I guess they're using the vibration as like a proxy sensation.
Like this is similar to this kind of thing.
I think so.
There's not really a good way to quantify tingliness.
Yeah, I don't remember.
So the, what are they?
The Meissner receptors are part of the nociception.
I'm not sure if I'm pronouncing that right.
But it's like other, it's another sort of reactive defense response type thing.
And so they just know that those are activated within that range, I guess.
Like when enough things are sort of triggering the receptors, that's the Meissners.
And I can imagine that for one way or the other,
for the ways that make sense culinarily or otherwise,
I guess these different sort of spicy hot things
39:03
are frequently combined together in a recipe, right?
Like you can often find multiple of those elements.
Like when you're eating a temperature hot spicy ramen,
you might be hitting all three of those categories all at once.
And it gets harder to sort of separate them, right?
As like a different component.
So we just group them all together as karai or hot sensation.
And you don't think about sort of subcategories per se,
but that's why we all refer to this as hot.
And maybe that's why both Japanese and English, at least.
And I'm sure, I don't know if it works in any other languages,
if they have a different word for temperature hot and spicy hot and spice, spicy spice.
But it's interesting how it's probably found all together very commonly.
And that's why we kind of lump together the sensation as this one experience.
Right.
That's describable by one word.
Yeah, I think that's, you know, will everybody pick up the categorization
that, you know, at underscore masala lab, you know, sort of presented?
Probably not.
I think most people will just do whichever has sort of become
the quick description of the food, right?
So many cultures probably have like both in Japanese and English,
there are technically words that can be more precise
for the type of flavor or taste you're experiencing.
I think you can, but...
But it's just easier to say hot or to say spicy or to say atsui or to say karai, right?
Like, those deliver the information effectively for 99% of situations, right?
Like, and otherwise, you'll get somebody going.
I think on, I sort of wandered over to the English language learners stack exchange,
which can be like kind of a cool place to see.
Of course, there's a stack exchange for that.
There is a stack exchange for that.
I think I've answered one or two questions in the past, but it's not a common visit.
A common question or like one that obviously was there,
it was very easy for me to find is like, what do I do with these words, right?
Like hot, because you've got hot, you've got spicy,
you've got then you've got the pungent and you've got,
there's another one that's escaping me, but you have more words that fit this.
And I think somebody in one of the places, you know, quoted,
42:04
often you hear somebody go, ah, this food is so hot.
And then a native English speaker will turn to them and say,
like hot temperature or like hot spice.
Like, you know, like it's not a native non-native thing.
It's a, it's a communication thing at that point.
It's just, what do you mean by hot?
And that's how we end up with this.
So, yeah.
Interesting.
But yeah, I guess, I guess it's interesting that this happened, this chat happened,
because I was talking about heat and pressure that are like two sides of the same coin,
you know, like it happens to the same thing.
Whereas you were looking at like heat and pressure that are sort of like as two separate
things, like a two separate components of the same experience.
And it's very, yeah, I don't know.
I didn't plan for this topic to be this grand.
You know, it was more just an extension of Dajare.
But I'm glad that we landed where we are.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think so.
Yeah.
So, I guess it's on the, on the closing note, I wanted to say, most likely,
Ren-san from Science Talk will create a playlist with all of the other people
participating in this month's Kagakukei Podcast.
So, when it's ready, we'll post it, maybe in our show notes or our Twitter account.
So, you can listen to everyone, and then you can also listen, too.
It'll be a good Japanese practice for you.
This would definitely be Japanese practice for me.
I will certainly get confused by how many different ways Atsui is mentioned.
Get ready, because I think in the last Kikaku, there were like 20 different podcasts.
They're participating in this.
So.
Maybe.
Get ready.
I don't, I don't, I don't know.
I don't know if Ganbaru is enough to get me through that many.
But I will, I will give it an attempt.
So.
Bye.
That's it for the show today.
Thanks for listening and find us on X at Eigo de Science.
That is E-I-G-O-D-E-S-C-I-E-N-C-E.
See you next time.
