00:11
でもなんだろう。 But, but like, I mean, sorry, going back to your 留学, though, like, what sort of like, um, like, what was your, I mean, I know you talked about your 留学 in your own
番組, so if anyone's interested, go listen to that one. I'll put a link to the episode note, but, um,
yeah, like, what sort of, would you would you want to do it again? Now, maybe as a, you know, a different status than a postdoc?
That's a difficult question. Maybe I want to try again. With maybe with my partner, I really do want to live abroad alone anymore.
It was too hard for me. I see that because I see that in エサイナイト there has some several episodes about making friends.
Right? Making friends in Japan is so hard. Yeah, like going to abroad and making friends and yeah, yes, yes, yes. Oh, that is definitely a constant struggle.
In terms of, yeah, making friends, I think making friends as an adult. Anywhere is hard, you know, whether it's Japan or abroad.
But I think if you live abroad with an idea that, oh, I'm here for the temporary period, like I'm only going to be here for some time.
That makes you, like, less motivated, maybe?
Yeah, like, if I could do it again, I think maybe from the PhD project, I want to go to abroad.
Oh, okay, okay, okay.
I want to get a PhD abroad.
That's probably also not a bad idea. That's a good time because you're still learning as a researcher.
So there's a lot more sort of support system available to you and the expectation for you is that you're still learning, I guess.
But if you're a postdoc, you need to perform like you need to be able to be useful from day one.
And that's a different sort of standard to meet.
Yeah, also that my scientific discussion always in Japanese, of course, in Japan, and my supervisor is Japanese.
So if I did this discussion in English, I think my English can be, I improve my English a lot.
When I'm thinking, I use my head.
Even when I'm speaking English, I use my head.
03:08
I feel like my English is bad.
I mean, I was a junior high school student, so like completely different level, of course.
But I remember thinking like, I'm not this stupid.
Like, I'm not like, but I can only speak like a kindergarten student.
And I'm like, I'm not this stupid. I'm not that dumb.
I have more things to say I can discuss more intelligently, but I just don't know how to say it.
And that frustration, for me was a good motivation to like actually improve.
And that was not always fun, I guess.
But it's, it was, to me, it was a necessary kind of frustration.
And one day, you can use all of your thinking power into science.
And, but that's, that's like, I think it's a good, clear goal to have.
And it's something that you can improve throughout your, you know, your career, like your lifetime.
So that's, yeah, I think it's, I think it's a good frustration.
However, not so fun it might be now.
It's definitely a healthy direction, I think.
Because what I see when people fail, sort of, at learning English is when they vaguely
ただただ英語うまくなりたいみたいな。
特に理由はないけど、なんか英語うまくなりたい。
それぐらいのモチベーションだと、なんかね、たぶん相当なんか、
ディスプレインがないと、相当自分に立する力がないと、
なんかうまくならない。
確かに。
I think the traveling, many people said, I want to speak English for travel.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But I think traveling is, you don't need that much English.
Right, and also that happens how many times a year, you know, that's like,
most people only get to travel like two or three times a year most, right?
And so, like, that's too infrequent.
And also, again, like you were saying, traveling and living abroad,
or like using English for work is completely different stuff.
And I just think that people who improve English quickly are the kind of people who,
English speaking is not the goal.
Like, they have some other goal after becoming fluent in English.
I have some goal, like I spend a lot in old English all day and get home.
I don't feel tired, even that I speak English all day.
06:01
I feel like, okay, maybe I can speak English and a little bit leads to the certain level.
Exactly, exactly.
That's the kind of, like, small improvement you should observe while you're doing it.
Because your goal was not, like, English speaking was just a part of your goal.
You wanted to be able to discuss science in English.
So, like, that's a bigger goal.
And English was just like a 通過点, you know, you needed to pass that point.
And that's so much stronger motivation that is, like, built into your larger goal
than I want to be able to speak English.
Which is a good goal, right?
Like, it's a good start.
But, like, that's not enough.
What does it mean to be able to speak?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like, it's not defined.
Like, the definition is probably vague.
Like, compared to the past, I'm definitely able to speak now.
But, like, my goal is kind of vague.
So, like, did I reach it?
Did I not?
It's like that.
So, in the end, my motivation goes down.
That's true.
You didn't reflect on your test score.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I think I have really bad score of the English test.
No, it's hard.
I mean, like, a lot of these English proficiency tests, I feel like it's not testing English.
It's testing, like, 集中力。
そうかも、そうかも。
Maybe.
Like, TOEFLとかさ、3時間くらいあるじゃん。
3時間、4時間。
ある。
多分、いつ受けたか覚えてないけど、長かった。
なんか、長いから。
長いだけだよね。
英語が云々以前に、なんか、3時間座って集中できますか?みたいなテストになってるから。
It's so hard.
It's like, I think all of the standardized tests, you know, it's easy sort of way to, like, you know, put it on your resume and say like,
Hey, I have this score.
But that's, I feel like, yeah, that's not always reflective of how much you're able to think and express yourself in English.
Yeah.
I think also I have another goal.
Like, I cannot enjoy movie without subtitle in English.
Yet.
But Disney movie I can watch, actually.
So there's still the 4Kids one, I can enjoy it.
Yeah.
And a little bit...
何?難い?
オッペンハイマーこの前見たんだけどさ。
Even with subtitle, I really don't understand any part.
I know why.
I can tell you exactly why Oppenheimer specifically is hard.
Because Christopher Nolan, when he makes movies, he purposely mixes, you know, when they're doing the sound mixing for the movie,
he mixes down conversation.
So he like intentionally reduced the volume of the conversation relative to what's happening in the movie.
09:04
Like, you know, whether it's music score or like, 効果音 or something.
He intentionally reduces it so that people are like focusing.
They're like, え?ってちゃんと聞かなきゃ見れないから。
え、じゃあ待って、じゃあさ、日本語字幕で見たの失敗ってこと?
英語で聞くべきだって。
多分、多分、でも、それはどうなんだろう。
失敗なのかな?
ノンフラン的には失敗なのかな?
わかんないけど。
エンジョイできてないかも。
Like, Interstellar, Tenet, Dunkirk, all of these like Nolan movies.
あ、バットマンもだよね。
あ、そうなんだ。
すごいね、なんかめっちゃ聞き取りづらいし、私でもなんかもごもご言ってるし。
なんかすごいね、身を乗りなして聞かないと、なんか、いけないんだけど。
I always, I didn't think it was like,
I didn't think it was the movie's intention until somebody told me that that's what Nolan does.
I was like, oh no!
So, it's not your fault.
I think for Japanese, like, kind of the one barrier is the pronunciation.
So, it's okay that you still speak Japanese pronunciation.
But you already had your natural English, so that's why we can't hear.
Yeah, I think I was in an English environment early enough that my,
you don't really detect a Japanese accent.
I think I just have a very confusing accent,
because I'm not 100% American accent, but I'm not at all British accent either.
I'm just like somewhere in between.
It's not stable, right?
People around me will tell me.
I think still that Japanese people speak Japanese pronunciation,
always asking what, and always ask, can you say again?
Yeah.
That's kind of the feel like, oh, I didn't speak.
I feel like there's something like that.
At first.
Yeah, I know, I know.
At first, I was really curious, but I don't know.
People should learn that there are way more non-native speakers of English
than native speakers of English.
And we all have different accents.
Even native speakers have different accents.
And I think the world is globalized enough that being able to listen
to different accents is a skill now.
It's a new skill that people need to learn.
And I am pretty proud of me being able to understand a variety of accents.
12:09
Because I also know what it feels like.
And I think this is a part where native speakers have a harder time
because they never really expose themselves into non-native speaker language.
So they're like,
And I'm like, for me, it's very obvious.
It's like obvious if she's trying to say this.
But for native speakers, sometimes it's really difficult.
But I think it's a skill that we all need to learn.
Being able to, like getting used to different accents,
because we're all going to be speaking a bunch of different accents in English.
Might as well get better at everything.
And I actually think it's really nice to have an accent
because it shows you immediately where you're from, who you are.
And it conveys that information without even trying.
And that's kind of nice.
The reason why non-Japanese speakers find Japanese-accented English difficult to understand
is the intonation.
I'm sorry. I don't get it.
There's a gap in the book.
There's a gap in the book for kids.
It's like English, word by word.
But when you get older, it's gone.
And for some reason, we're able to read it.
And also, in kanji, katakana, and hiragana,
the nuances are a little bit different.
Even if it's the same word.
You can understand it.
You can't translate that nuance.
For example, I don't know.
For example, why is kirakira written in katakana here
and not in hiragana there?
Maybe that's how they felt.
The grammar rules aren't that strict.
Going back to the intonation,
there's a pattern in English intonation.
I don't know the technical details of it,
but if it's a sentence like this,
there's a pattern in English intonation.
15:03
I don't know if there's a pattern in Japanese intonation,
but it's really vague.
So even if you speak casually,
you can understand each other.
But in English,
just because you don't want to,
the amount of information is really reduced.
Plus, when you hear an accent,
it's like, what did you say?
And when someone asks you what you said,
you're like, oh my god,
maybe I didn't speak properly.
Strong heart.
Thanks Hatsune for coming and joining our podcast.
Where can we find you on the internet?
Thank you so much, Asami-san.
You can find us on Twitter.
The account is atmakiyoken underscore.
Maybe you can find the link.
Okay, yeah, yeah.
And it has a link tree and a bio
so you can access all of their podcasts
through that link.
Thank you again,
and hope to do this again soon sometimes.
Yeah, it was fun.
That's it for the show today.
Thanks for listening,
and find us on X at Eigo de Science.
That is E-I-G-O-D-E-S-C-I-E-N-C-E.
See you next time!
