自己認識の違い
Konnichiwa! I'm your host Mayu for 2AM OTTACK! In this podcast, we talk all about anime,
manga, movies, music, and history through our distinct perspectives as a born and raised
Japanese non-otaku, me, and an American anime fan. That's me. I'm Cisco. I've been an anime
fan since I was 11, and I'm also fluent in Japanese. Surprise! Yes, he's really fluent.
Okay, let's get started. This is our second episode for 2AM OTTACK! Today, we would like to
talk about what we talked about in another podcast with our manga artist friend. We talked about
how she doesn't like to be categorized as a manga artist. Is this the right English?
I guess so. I mean, I don't think it's so much that she doesn't like to be categorized,
but that she feels uncomfortable being called a manga artist.
Thank you. Yes, that's exactly right.
I think her perspective was that because she doesn't earn enough money from drawing manga
to sustain herself, with that as her main job, she doesn't deserve to be called a manga artist.
And so we talked a little bit about how that's pretty well. I mean, I guess nobody really calls
themselves a manga artist in America unless like they draw specifically manga in Japan.
Draw specifically manga and not just comics, which is maybe more common as a job in America.
If you're self-publishing a webtoon, you're probably like, I'm a manga artist, regardless
of how successful you are. In America, people will often identify their job as whatever their
dream job is, if they're working on it at all, with no regards to how much money they're currently
making doing it. And so we were sort of sharing the perspective that in America, she's been
published in actual manga compilations and stuff, that in America, we would definitely call her a
manga artist. It might be her side hustle right now as opposed to her main gig, but the fact that
she's had her name in print with several different pieces would suggest in the US that she's a
bona fide manga artist, not just like someone who's drawing manga on the side, but has yet to sell.
Right, but yeah, I understand what she was saying, because in Japan, if you don't get paid
with the job, you can't call yourself with the job title. So she feels like
she's not there yet. She's been paid, right? She's not making so much money that she doesn't have
another job, but she has gotten paid for her work, right? Yes, yeah, like she's very humble. I mean,
Japanese people are very humble about themselves. And when I was trying to make a profile for her
on the podcast, I first wrote, her name is Sugimoto. Sugimoto is a shoujo manga artist.
And immediately she was like, no, please change the profile. It's more like, well, she writes
like a local magazine. And then what did she say? Like, besides she works on her manga or something.
Right, right, right. But I was like, that's true. But like, you know, she can say that she's
a manga artist, but it's different. It's very different in Japan. And she feels a little bit
like embarrassed of calling herself a manga artist. I think the embarrassment is from the idea
that someone in Japan that she knows will find out that she dared to call herself a manga artist
家族の反応と文化的背景
on this podcast and will be like, you're not a real manga artist. Like, how could you
think that? How do you think it's okay to say that? Or like shame her for like not being
successful enough or something. But yeah, so I think it's, I don't know that she's embarrassed
about like, she's not embarrassed of being a manga artist. I think she's embarrassed of like,
feeling like she's overreaching by claiming something that's, you know,
that other people will judge her for if they find out about it.
Yeah, I remember when she told her family that she wants to be a manga artist.
I know, after she got much older. The family's reaction was like, you can't be a manga artist.
What are you? Are you joking? Like that kind of attitude.
Why were they? Why were they so mean about it?
I don't know. I think, you know, we, Sugimoto and I are from the same hometown,
from home prefecture in this like countryside. And it sounds like some kind of dream job
she was talking about. And then like, family was like, I think for family, it's not realistic
for her to achieve the goal without even like reading her manga or anything.
Right. Yeah. So I think if I said something
similar to my parents, like, I think I would get the same kind of reaction.
Yeah, I feel like that's a really big cultural difference between the US and Japan. Like,
I feel like in the US, little kids will be like, I want to be an NBA player when I grow up. And the
parents are like, that's great. Like practice really hard instead of being like, well, statistically,
like, you're probably not going to make it. So like, get a real job. And in Japan, like,
your dreams are crushed very early to be like, no, that's not realistic. Like, don't do it.
Yeah, that's what happened to me when I was like elementary school student. I was so into drawing
or painting. And I loved doing it. And I thought, maybe I can be a painter in the future.
So I told that to my dad. And my dad was, well, okay, if you like, you know, drawing so much,
you should write or you should draw or paint a picture per day. So I was like, okay, I can do
that. And I started doing it. And it did it was not fun for me anymore. It felt like a work.
And I didn't like doing it. I didn't want to draw or paint every single day. And then like one day,
I stopped and I was like, I can't be a painter because I can't paint every single day.
And I just gave up because I didn't think I could achieve the goal.
I mean, that, that seems pretty extreme as like a method of trying to get somebody they must do that
every day to be a painter, I gotta say. But I mean, like, it was probably good practice.
But yeah, it also seems like maybe it made you hate it at like an age when had you been allowed
to like pursue your own creativity a little more, that that would have been nice, you know?
Yeah, I'm talking, I'm talking about like, when I was like, six, seven, eight, around that.
Yeah, that seems pretty rough.
I mean, like, I probably that that was the way my dad tried to like, convince me not being a
painter in the future. I guess it worked. But I wish my dad was more encouraging, like, oh, you,
漫画家の挑戦
you know, you did a great job, or like, keep doing whatever you like to do. But, you know,
I was just a kid.
Yeah, I mean, I will say that even in America, there are probably a lot of parents who want to
dissuade their children from trying to be artists when they grow up, because the perception is that
artists don't make any money. But I feel like as long as it's like a profession where people make
money, American parents are a little bit more encouraging, even if it's kind of a long shot
type of journey, you know what I mean?
So yeah, I can't imagine like, what, you know, Sugimoto went through, and then she finally,
you know, become a manga artist. And we, we really like, cheered her up, like,
we really think you're a manga artist. And she sounded happy.
Yeah. I mean, I think especially given that she started taking manga really seriously in her
early 30s. You know, it's great that she's finally pursuing this kind of lifelong dream
and taking it seriously. And there's lots of examples in literature of people who don't
start writing until they're, you know, pretty well on in their careers or lives, you know,
they'll be in their 40s and 50s and put out a book for the first time and produce like,
you know, awesome work. So I, I'm looking forward to the things that she writes next.
Yeah, I'm excited, too, because like, I really enjoyed her
works in the past. And I just, I don't know, I'm gonna be a supporter for her forever.
That's so sweet.
アニメソングの人気
Yeah. I also wanted to bring about the very popular anime song right now,
which is Blim Bam Bam Born by Creepy Nuts. I think it's I don't know, it's an opening.
It's the second opening for the Mashal anime.
Right, right. I, you know, we tried to watch my Mashal, like a year ago, like a while ago.
We did. And we didn't really think it was interesting.
Yeah, I think for me, some of the problem was that I read the manga from the time it started
appearing in Shonen Jump. So I read it from beginning to end before the anime even started,
like showing up on Japanese Netflix. So I already know the entire story.
And I think like, there's nothing wrong with the anime. The anime is just fine. But
it's hard for me to be like, captivated about, oh, like, what's gonna happen next? Because like,
I, I just know, it's fine. But it wasn't so great that I was like, Oh,
like, what an incredible adaptation, like, I must watch the whole thing.
Yeah, I mean, like, after the song became so famous, and so popular, you know, our son,
who's almost 13, wanted to watch it on, watch the anime, and wanted to read. So
I started watching first few episodes. And it was really funny. It was pretty funny.
Especially if you have read or knew about Harry Potter. Yeah, because it looks like a
rip, not rip off, like based on. Yeah, it has a similar kind of world to Harry Potter.
Well, no, I actually don't. I'm not sure I agree with that. I think like, it's a world where
everybody. Yeah. There's, there's ways in which it has some similarities to like a lot of different
pop culture touchstones. Like, I think like, it's kind of like My Hero Academia, in that
アニメとシュークリームの関係
the main character is like the only person who can't, you know, do the amazing things that everybody
else can do. And it's sort of like Harry, I think some of the character design is based on Harry
Potter. Like the headmaster of the school is definitely based on Dumbledore. And the, the
wands and the, and the cloaks that they wear also seem like influenced by Harry Potter. And they're
at like a magic academy and stuff. But beyond that, I don't know that it's like specifically
Harry Potter, given that like every character has like their own special magic. Like, but yeah,
I mean, I think it's, it's a send up of like, other anime about magic and wizards.
Yeah, yeah. I enjoyed watching it. It was really funny, especially,
I don't know, for some reason, he really likes eating choux cream.
I know it has like a French name that's not exactly the same thing. But I think in America,
nowadays, we know it as choux cream. And as like the Japanese version of the French thing,
not the French thing that it's originally. What is cream puff?
Yeah, it's a cream puff. That's, that's like, I think that's the correct English translation of
like what this is. But cream puffs, this is just my maybe this is just like my bias and my take,
but I don't think cream puffs are very popular in America. So even tell people like, Oh, it's
like a cream puff. People be like, Yeah, but I've never eaten that either. So like, like, you know,
choux cream is like, Yeah, okay. Like, I don't know what that is either. We're calling it like
a choux creamer from Japan. You're like, Yeah, I also have never eaten that. So now that like
Beard Papa is around in America, like I think people will have had a choux creamer. But like,
I think it's, it kind of tells you what you need to know that the most famous like maker of cream
puffs in America is a Japanese brand. Like, so I, you know, there's not like a well known
American brand maker of cream puffs. That like, you know, makes the you know, there's no like,
version of that. That's like donuts. You know what I mean? Like, it's, it's a, it's a sweet,
we don't eat that often. Interesting. Yeah, now, we have two sons, but like,
second son really wants me to make choux cream. Because he's never had it before.
Yeah, I'm like, I don't know. Maybe he had it. He doesn't remember. But I don't think he'll like.
Yeah, I think they're gonna eat it and be like, it's like, not really what I had in mind. I think
it's like, cream in the middle for them. And they can be like, kind of gross, you know, so
yeah, that's just me projecting. That's how I feel about choux cream is like,
it's okay. But like, I don't, I don't like cream filled donuts either. So right. Like,
I would kind of just rather not. I used to like it when I was kid. And it's a lot of cream inside
and choux cream. Yeah. Yeah. But I like I want I want him to, you know, give it a try. Because
he's interested in from anime and manga. So it's a chance. Yeah, it seems fair. Yeah. So yeah,
I wanted to talk about the song, which I don't know, like, if people love the song, like,
ラップ音楽の新しい潮流
it's so catchy. And it's so easy to remember that, especially the chorus.
Well, yeah, I mean, I it's definitely an earworm. I think like the, the ability to remember,
like the, the sound of the song is really easy. I had been hearing it for a while,
not really clocking that it was a Japanese song or related to anime. And I like, I really thought
the first few times I heard it that it was like, like a bad bunny song. I didn't know it was in
Japanese the first time I heard it. And was like, you know, like, remember the, the chorus,
but remembered it wrong. Like, for real thought it was like in Spanish. So I agree that it's like,
it's definitely really catchy. But I think actually, it's those elements of the song that
have made it like kind of go viral and be popular. Is that like, it's a real like cross of like
different musical styles. Yeah, we tried to sing it in Japanese. I mean, there are a lot of English
words in there too. It's so fast. I'm not a rapper.
It's like a such a fast song. It goes like blink of eye. Yeah, I'm not a rapper either. But as
someone who has performed rap songs at karaoke, like, it's fast, but it's not like impossibly
faster than other rap songs, like regardless of language, like there are faster Japanese
rap songs than this song. And, but it's, it's got like, it definitely mixes English and Japanese
a lot. To like, to an extent that like, yeah, well, a lot of Japanese like rap music has a
mix of English and Japanese in it. But I think this one's kind of notable for mixing in like,
modern English slang, like the idea of like, cho flex is like, really interesting to me that like,
you know, that with flexing, I don't know, maybe flexing is like 10 years old, and I'm, I'm just
behind the times and stuff. But that strikes me, the whole song strikes me as like, a little bit
more, I don't know, modern than like, a lot of other Japanese rap music has like, sounded up until
this point. And like, and again, I think there's like, really an influence from like, not American
rap, but from like, you know, from like, Latin music, or like Latin rap music, in terms of like,
the A, you know, like, that's, I don't, that just really conjures bad bunny for me. I'm sure he's not
the only person doing it. But like, I get like, a little bit of like, that sense in it, too.
I thought, you know, like, when we tried to sing it together, I find it, the first part
of the song, the rapping part is easy for me, compared to the second part,
the rhythm is completely different. Right. And for you, that's the other way around.
It's the other way around. I think the first part is hard for me, just because
rapping my mouth around some of the combinations of Japanese is hard, or just like saying the
Japanese words in a row is more difficult. The second part has like, a rhythm that is
not uncommon in American rap songs. And I don't know, for whatever reason, I feel like the
language in the second verse is like, easier for me to just spit out.
Yeah, it's definitely English, like rhythm. Yeah, I think. Yeah. So like, the second part,
I can't do the second part. I can do the first part easily, but not the second part.
少年漫画と少女漫画の違い
We should just tag team, you know, like, we should each like, do the part that we're good at. I think
that's how we should sing the song.
Yeah, I mean, it got a shout out in me and Roboco, which is like, one of my favorite
mangas that's like current and being released. Like they did a whole chapter about it, which
made me like, really, really happy. One that I'm like, hip it and like, with it enough with like,
modern culture, you know, this reference, but also because I was like, Oh, this is good. This
will maybe like extended staying power, like a little bit longer, you know?
Mm hmm. Yeah. Well, all right. There you have it. We talked about that's not how you say no,
no, no, no, no, that's that was a great use of that idiom. Well done.
Okay, so like, last episode, we did the word of the day and I want to do the word of the day
today again. And I thought maybe you can explain about shoujo manga and shonen manga,
like probably a lot of people here in America, too. Mm hmm. Yeah. Do you want to explain that?
Sure. I mean, I think this is one where even some non Japanese speakers may have picked up
on these terms because of the way in which like, they've been deployed in, in conversations around
anime and manga that you know, where you like you, they are these terms are used a lot, but
shonen means boy shoujo means girl. And these two terms describe the audiences
of each of these types of manga. So shonen manga is directed towards boys and shoujo manga is
directed towards girls. And they often have some differences in terms of like, both characters and
plot like shoujo, shonen manga tend to focus more on like a team of dudes battling some other guys,
like forever. And then shoujo manga tend to be like stories about romance, you know, one way or
another. And then they have like, they have a different aesthetic style to shoujo manga has a
lot more sort of open space in it often or like, kind of like decorations and like uses of like,
you know, of negative space or like, like, I don't know, flowers or roses as borders,
like really intricate kind of like borders around the characters. Whereas shonen manga tends to
really just be like the actions of the characters in the manga. And then the background sort of
varies by artist in terms of how detailed it is. But yeah, I think those are the those strike me
as the most salient differences between the two forms. And some manga is like crossover and is a
little bit of both, or is a shoujo manga but has, you know, kind of looks more visually like one
kind or the other. They're definitely not like categories you can't like play with or bend.
But those seem to be like the big stereotypical differences.
Yeah, when I was a child, I used to read. No, that's not true. I didn't read. I used to buy
I used to buy shoujo manga, because I didn't, I was not into reading at all. But I loved like
flipping the pages and looking at, you know, picture pretty pictures. But I didn't like
reading. So I got shoujo manga magazine, and usually comes with furoku. It's like a little,
少年漫画と少女漫画の比較
little like, I don't know, gift thing when you buy that it could be like a letter set,
or it could be, I don't know, some like a paper thing you can play with. So that was the main
part of the reason why I used to buy shoujo manga. And a lot of, even though I didn't read,
like they were like Sailor Moon, or like Rayears, or something like that. And a lot of like romance,
and I liked, I preferred reading romance stories, rather than fighting ones. Yeah, yeah.
I was gonna say, I think Rayears and Sailor Moon are good examples of like that sort of
cross genre style where like, they're published in shoujo manga magazines,
but they're like plot structure kind of seems more like a shounen manga.
Yeah, but I also read shounen manga too, like jump. Yeah, I, again, I'm not into fighting
stories. So I didn't read any fighting ones. But I read like short stories, or like stories,
something. And with that chapter, I didn't, I didn't have to be, you know, anticipated to wait
for another one. Yeah. But like, when I was reading shounen jump back, you know, how many I don't
know, a couple years, not a couple, like decades ago. It was very boy, like mangas, like a boy
focus, boy centered manga. But it sounds like it's not the case these days.
In shounen jump specifically?
Yeah. I'm trying to like, think of all the things that are big in shounen jump.
Um, didn't you say about figure skating and then like, blue flag and this stuff?
Yeah, those are all available on the American shounen jump app. But I don't think they ran
in like, you know, the weekly edition of shounen jump. I mean, two on ice, I actually don't know,
two on ice might be serialized in weekly shounen jump, even if it is, the main character is still
like, a cisgendered, heterosexual guy, at least as far as the story has gotten so far. So I would
credit that like, that one really has sort of like, an equal presence of like, a strong female lead.
I don't think she is the main character, but she's like, half of the main character, I guess. And like,
the other one that's kind of new, that has a little bit of the same dynamic, green, green,
greens, which is about golf. And I hate golf. I really am deeply uninterested in golf. But the
manga itself is like, okay, you know, I'm like, it's like, that one also has like, a strong female
character, but she's also not the main character. The main character, again, is like a dude who's
like, maybe kind of in love with her. So, you know, it's a, it's progress, but the bar is really
low. I'm trying to think of a shounen jump manga, you know, which one did have a female lead was
God of Destruction. That, the main character is a girl. And there are male characters in it, but
they, you know, they're the side characters. And I really liked that one. I thought it was like, a
good comedy manga. And it's that sort of notable for having that. And I guess like, you could argue
about me and Roboco. Is Roboco the main character? Or is Bondo the main character? Like, I don't know.
There's, there's probably a debate to be had there. Roboco is the main character. Yeah, see, you know,
少女漫画と少年漫画の違い
so that's one way of looking at it, in which case, like, she's a robot, but like, she presents as
female most of the time. I guess Shoujo Null is kind of like that too. There's sort of like a,
like a male main character, but he's, well, I don't know. I think that one's also like, that's,
I think that's serialized in like the web version. I don't think it's in the print version,
but whatever. I mean, like, I don't, I guess I'm not, I don't know enough about what's in the
actual Shounen Jump versus what's only in the American Shounen Jump app to like really say for
sure. But yeah, I, I think most of the big stories still center on like Shounen characters, you know.
And, and a lot of their plots are still kind of like generally Shounen manga plots, like they're
not crossing over that much. I see, I see. Yep. Okay. So Shoujo, so like our friend, our manga
artist friend is Shoujo mangaka, Shoujo manga artist. And then, yeah, she, she draws very
beautifully. And then I was telling Cisco that, you know, we probably can ask her to draw us
in the future with that Shoujo manga style. I'm honestly just scared of what that's going
to turn out like, but also flattered that she might do it at all. Yeah. I don't know if she
would do it, but like I, we can ask and then we can put it on like social media. Look,
this is what we look like. Oh God. Yeah. I feel like if there's ever a comparison,
people will be like hugely disappointed. Yeah. No, no comparison. No, you can't compare it,
but you know, people can fantasize. I don't know if I want them to fantasize,
but we'll just leave it there. You know what I mean? I feel like we're getting into dangerous
water here. Okay. All right. Thank you so much for joining today. Don't forget to subscribe
and follow 2AMOTAK and 3AMOTAK, which is only in Japanese, but like, if you know Japanese,
that would be like a good practice to listen to. They are on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and on
YouTube. It would mean so much to us and we will keep making fun episodes. See you next time at
more 2AMOTAK.
