鬼滅の刃の劇場版三部作
Konnichiwa, I am your host Mayu for 2AM OTTACK! In this podcast, we talk all about anime, manga,
movies, music and history through our distinct perspectives. As a born and raised Japanese
non-otaku, that's me and an American fan. That's me. Just an American anime fan, sorry.
First, before we dive into the main part, I'd like to announce that Cisco's prediction was right
about Demon Slayer movies. Did you hear anything about this?
No, but I see that you've posted it here. Do you want me to read it?
Yes, please.
Okay, so there was a press release on July 1st, that's today where I am, saying Demon Slayer
Kimetsu no Yaiba Infinity Castle, the last episodes in the hit anime franchise, as a trio of theatrical
films in cinemas worldwide. The three-part installment represents the final arc and
culmination of the hugely popular award-winning anime shonen series. So it sounds like there's
gonna be three movies? Just like you said. Am I reading this right? A trio of theatrical films?
So it's too long to put it in one movie, so they broke it up into three movies, which is
ridiculous. But it sort of makes total sense. The first movie is gonna have to be like
Dem Trap. Well, maybe I shouldn't get into it. But yeah, I think actually it does make sense
that they've split it up into three movies because the story is quite long. And I'm really glad that
I just, I don't know. I don't think they're gonna release them at the same time. I think
they're gonna release them like... Little by little?
Maybe like... Yeah. Do you think it's gonna be one a year? I mean, if this was America,
they for sure would release them at Christmas three years in a row, just like they do with
the Harry Potters. Every Christmas there's a new Harry Potter. That's what they would do
if this was the US. In Japan, I don't know. I feel like they might release them one every six months
and be like one next summer, one next December, and then another one in the last one the following
summer or something. But it's weird. If they release them all at the same time, then do you
have to go to the movies three times in a row to see the whole thing? If they release three movies
at the same time, they probably would let you purchase three movies worth tickets with discount
that you can watch three in a row. That would have to be up to the theaters. So that would
be a big collaboration if they were like, yeah, watch six hours of movies back to back. I mean,
I don't know. How long are these movies gonna be? If they're an hour and a half each, okay,
four and a half hours, whatever. That's the same length as the Kenneth Branagh Hamlet that
had two intermissions in it or whatever. But if they're two to two and a half hours each,
then you're spending all day in the movie theater to go see them. So I don't know.
On the one hand, I would really like that because you could just get it over with. You could see the
whole thing back to back to back. At the same time, it feels really unlikely that that's what's going
to happen. And instead, it'll be spread out and then you're going to have to be like, what happened
映画の概要
in the last movie? It's been like six months since I saw that one. They'll probably hope you go back
and watch the first one again right before you see the second one or whatever. But I'm glad
they're doing it. I'm glad that they're making it as a movie and not as like two more seasons of the
anime, like eight episodes each or whatever. And that would have been really frustrating.
And as much as like, I don't know, I almost would rather have it just be a six hour movie with like
a break in the middle and be like, yeah, it's Harry Potter and the Cursed Child. Go get dinner
in the middle. Yeah, I would. I mean, I don't know. So many theaters have had to like redo the
way they do business anyway. Their old business model kind of isn't working. I'm thinking
particularly if one near where I live that now offers food, you can order in the theater and
like eat it in there. But I was like, well, you know, that would kind of work for like a
six hour Demon Slayer movie, you know? Who knows? Yeah. Well, we have the Demon Slayer episode
on episode five, which we released back in May. So listen to this episode and find out
more. Not really more, but like, you know, we talked about this in advance and then it's kind
of came true. Yes. My future predictions are on point. All right, let's get into this week's
main topic. We are going to talk about anime supremacy. Hakken anime. Hakken anime, right?
Did I get it this time? Yes. It's like fourth take. Okay. Hakken anime. No, I'm still saying
it wrong? Hakken. It's not Hakken. I know it's not Hakken, but it's Hakken or it's Hakken.
Either. Hakken. Yes. Anime. All right. Yeah. I can't say it right. So I'm just going to stick
with anime supremacy. Good. Okay. Hakken anime or anime supremacy is a 2012 Japanese drama film
based on a novel with the same name written by Mizuki Tsujimura distributed by Toei company.
So Scott, I want you to explain briefly about this movie. So it's really the story of two anime
directors, one who is brand new and one who has been in the industry for it seems like at least
seven years or so. They are competing to see whose new show is going to dominate the airwaves and get
more viewers. And the new director who's female is struggling with a lot of resistance from her crew
and sort of stereotypical, I don't know, sexism at work. Whereas the genius director who's been
around the block a few times is struggling with behaving appropriately as a director. And yet
everyone is putting up with him because he's a man and also reputedly a genius. So
the plot of the movie follows them making these two parallel anime in the same season and trying
to get more viewers. I have to mention this is not animation. This is not anime. This is
live action movie. We didn't do an episode about Shirobako, did we? We haven't. Yeah. So Shirobako
is an animated series also about anime production. And this movie is a standalone movie, but it's
got a lot of similarities in terms of the ground that it covers. But yeah, it's a live action about
producing anime. There's a lot of anime in it, though, because they show both of the series that
アニメ制作の理解
the two main directors are working on. So yeah, we watched Shirobako, which we recommended by
Sugimoto, our manga artist friend. And it was a great series. You get to know all about anime
production and how anime is made, basically. And then people are super busy all the time,
work crazy hours. So after watching it, I had so much appreciation for people who were making
anime. And I felt the same way after watching Anime Supremacy. Yeah, I think both really
drive home what an intensely workaholic culture Japan has about everything and how much people
in animation in particular are really sacrificing from their personal lives in order to try to meet
their insane deadlines for making shows. I think the deadlines and the work culture in Japan seem
to be really contributing to death by overwork, karoushi, and intense levels of stress around
work in ways that I don't think are comparable in the American entertainment industry.
This original novel became a theater in 2019, and it became a live action. This one we just watched
in 2022. And it also became manga in 2023. So it comes in all sorts of forms.
So it was a play before it was a movie?
Yes.
You said it became a theater? So it was like a stage play?
Stage play, yes.
Wow. I didn't see that coming. I get it, actually. I think
it was not a musical, though? It was just a straight play?
I don't think it's musical.
Okay. I mean, most of the film doesn't suggest that it was a musical. And I guess if it had
been a musical, probably the film adaptation would have really gone in that direction.
Yeah, I can kind of see that, actually. The way that the movie is structured,
there are a lot of scenes that you can imagine having been staged on a set of a play rather than
having to be shot as a film, I guess.
Yeah. And before this original novel became a novel, it was serialized in An-An, which is
like a women's fashion magazine. So the author was asked to write novel stories for the magazine,
and then the author decided, you know, it's got to be something about a woman working,
and then something relatable to the readers.
監督の性別と業界の状況
Something relatable. Okay. Why pick anime, then? That feels like a weird fit for a women's fashion
magazine.
That's what the author was interested in.
That makes a lot of sense in terms of the directions that the story goes. It seems like
the manga version of this was done by Clamp, which is also a sort of famous female manga
artist group.
Oh, okay.
The film is directed by a man, which sort of sat wrong with me when I saw it. I was like,
wait, what? After the whole point of this was female directors, and then this movie is actually
made by a dude? But it's a good movie. I don't want to say anything against the director just
because he happens to be a man. But that surprised me when we got to the end of the credit roll,
and then it was directed by a man, and you were like, of course.
Japan is starting to catch up to Hollywood.
Yeah, it's moving. I mean, that's a low bar. Hollywood is also not known for thriving
female directors, unfortunately. I guess what I really mean to say is Hollywood still has a
long way to go. But yeah, Japan is even farther behind, I think, in that sense.
アニメ引用の影響
Yeah. There's so much to say about this. As you watch this movie, you notice
quotes from anime. Several characters in the movie say quotes from anime. Did you notice anything?
I think the only one I picked up on, because I was watching it with Japanese subtitles, and so
that made it much harder for me to notice something and be like, oh, that's from an
anime. But there's at least one reference to an Eva, right? You have to open your heart or
the Evangelion won't move. And I was like, okay. I think Evangelion is like that anime for me,
that sort of fits with what this is all about, of touching someone's heart, etc.
So I was glad it got a shot out in the movie.
The only thing I recognized was Tsuchuya ni mo butareta koto nai noni.
And what's that from?
A Gundam.
Oh, I am not a Gundam person.
I don't know Gundam either. I've almost never watched it. But this phrase is really famous in
Japan. Translated, I have never been beaten by my dad.
I've never even been hit by my father, would probably be the way that they would
translate it, I think. Like, how dare you?
This is like a main character, Amuro says, in Gundam.
Tsuchuya ni mo butareta koto nai noni.
So I recognized that part, that part that the director was punched by the producer or something.
Oh, right, right, right. Yeah, yeah. That's a great moment.
Especially later when you find out she's been going to boxing classes.
制作と人気のプレッシャー
I loved all the quotes from the movie. I appreciate that. Creating animation is a lot
of work, of course. And then you feel a lot of pressure, like people see it and criticize
immediately. And then I felt the pressure of the director having, and especially she declared,
I'm going to win.
It always seems so dangerous to declare you're going to win a popularity contest,
right? Because it's something you don't really have any control over. But yeah, I don't know,
for me, the pressure of just putting out the episodes felt as big as the popularity pressure,
which one's going to be more. But that feeling of seeing all the comments on social media about
work you've produced and then feeling like you're doing it on purpose to try to get good reviews,
that has got to be very intense pressure.
And you mentioned about women's work environment in Japan and how women are treated in Japan.
And you talked about it and I had no recognition about it, which is sad.
Yeah. I mean, I think part of it is almost like trauma on my part from having been in Japan when
I was still a teenager. And the only person who was sort of responsible, I was living in a boys
dormitory at a college. And there was a woman who was like, kind of vaguely had helped set this
situation up for us to live there. And I watched her get just like ripped in front of the whole
office by her boss. And I could see her just shaking with rage and not able to say anything
back. And nobody else stuck up for her or anything. And it was like over nothing. I can't
remember even what he was criticizing her for, but it was absurd. As a 17-year-old who didn't
日本職場の性差別
have a very firm grasp of the Japanese language was just like so angry that he got away with
treating her that way. That I think I'm pretty sensitive to that as a thing that happens.
And I saw it when I worked in Japan and it just drives me crazy the way
Japanese women in work environments are treated. I can't stand it.
And yeah, so this movie, trigger warning, I guess, would have been nice for me to be like,
you're about to see some really intense sexism against women at all levels of power in this
hierarchy. And yeah, it hit hard for me. And maybe that's because, again, I was in a situation once
where it happened sort of right in front of me and there wasn't really anything I could do about it
at that time. But I don't know. It's one of the few aspects of Japanese culture that I don't think I
can accept at all. And especially as an American who's a firm believer in gender equality, it gets
me every time. I don't think I can go back to work in big companies or small companies, maybe
smaller companies. At least big companies have compliance and some kind of system that they were
told to do by government. Smaller companies might be, I don't know, a little bit worse.
The school that I worked in, I vividly remember the male teachers expecting the female teachers
to make coffee. And there being a day where there was no coffee and one of the male teachers
essentially just told one of the female teachers to make the coffee. And she was like,
why don't you make the coffee? And he was like, I don't know how. It's your job essentially.
And I was like, I'm pretty sure I can make the coffee. I don't think I'd ever made coffee before.
I didn't drink coffee at this time in my life. And I was like 22, but I was like, I'll make it.
And yeah, I don't know. That sort of expectation just blows my mind that it's still, I mean,
I know that was 20 years ago, but still, I don't know. I can't bring myself to understand that.
Yeah. I had a similar experience. It's like, whenever you go drinking, which you don't,
you know, first place don't want to go. And then you're supposed to like,
take care of other like male employees, like, you know, taking food from the big place and then
like keep pouring beer to glasses so that they can, they're always filled. Like, why does it
have to be a woman's job? Yeah. So I never wanted to go. Yeah. Anyway.
Okay. Moving on.
アニメ制作の質
Moving on. So in this movie, you see two different studios' animes, which is actually
created by real anime creators and the voice actors. You can tell that because the high
quality of animation. And at the end of this movie, it shows how those animation ends. And
I was so into it, even though I don't know a lot of stories about it, but I was very moved
by those animations. Yeah. I think it's part of the setup of the film that her final episode is
just like a lot, lot better than his final episode. And there's a little bit of like a twist
there, but even so, like I, if those were real anime, I wouldn't watch Little Life. Like even
just the color scheme for that anime, I was like, no, like, I can't watch this. It's all like neon
colors the whole time. Right. The director for the anime was from Pretty Cure. Pretty Cure?
Pretty Cure. Pretty Cure? I don't know how to say it. Pretty Cure?
I mean, yeah, but I think in like the actual like letters for that are Pretty Cure, right?
Oh, I never watched that. P-R-E-T-T-Y space C-U-R-E, Pretty Cure. I'm 99.9% sure that's
what it is. I've never seen it either at all, but I've seen like a lot of material for it. So I'm
pretty sure that's what it is. Yeah, I've never, I guess I've never seen it, so I don't know.
There are anime out there, like the one that I'm remembering, because I've seen just the
first episode of it, I think it's called like Soul Eater or something, but like just the whole
thing is colored in these like intense, like garish primary colors, like these like really
hot pinks and reds and stuff. And it just, it hurts my eyes to watch it. Like I can't stand it.
And the story didn't seem like really deep or emotional or even that interesting to me. Like
I was sort of like, I don't, I get that this anime is doing really well because it has a famous
director, but other than that, this doesn't seem like the kind of thing a lot of people would
really want to watch. Whereas her anime, Soundback, seems awesome. I mean, like, yeah, it's got some
like really obvious inspiration from other anime that I would, that I already really like, like
Evangelion and I think actually really Razifon, which I've never seen, but like I've heard is
quite good. Anyway, um, that one seemed like something I would really want to watch. And the
ending of that seemed great. Like they really nailed it and it was very emotional and like,
you know, I teared up a little, like just like all of the people watching it in the film.
Um, but yeah, I think they did an amazing job of making you believe that the anime was good,
even though you probably watched a grand total of like three or four minutes of the actual animation.
Um, like a lot of people want those animations to be like aired, actually aired in real life,
which is no surprise.
Yeah. I, yeah, I feel like that would be a little bit of a mistake given that
the movie literally gave away their endings, but, uh, yeah, I would, I would probably watch
Soundback if it became a real anime. I wouldn't watch Little Light, even if they really made it,
I would just be like, it's a hard pass for me. Sorry.
Yeah, Shirobako has a similar ending, like showing the work they'd done. And then,
yeah, that's how I think that's how they end.
Yeah. They, well, they make a couple different shows, right? They make at least two,
they make a first one and then it ends like midway through the, you know, the,
the series and then they start making another one after that. Right.
I think so. Yeah.
Oh, you don't, you don't remember that? Oh yeah, like they're,
I can't remember the first one that they're working on what that one's about, but the
second one is definitely like the Flying Girls Squadron or whatever. And it has like a ridiculous
ending that has like people on horses and stuff and they like have to go observe horses to like
アニメ制作の多面性
learn how to draw them and things. And they use like the old guy. I don't know. I feel like I'm
giving a lot of things away, but yeah, I, I think, I think for my money, Shirobako did a better job
explaining all the different parts that go into animation. Like you really spend time with
characters. Yeah. At a lot of different levels and they're not producing the number one anime
of the season. They're just making like a thing. That's not even really theirs. Like
they're adapting some work and, um, the director gets some airtime, but he's not really the focus
of the show. Uh, one of the, like one of the episode producers is kind of the main character.
So you get like a, someone who's more in the middle of things. This movie is really about
two directors and to a lesser extent about the producers who are sort of, you know,
making some other big decisions around them. But because it's so focused on the director's
experience, there are lots of other characters in the movie, but they are all kinds of side
characters as opposed to main characters in their own right. The way that Shirobako tries to really
diajuの概念
look at everybody else's point of view. All right. Let's do word of the day. Today's word of the day
is diaju. Sorry. You're going to have, this is all you because they explained this word in the movie
and I still don't really get it. What I understood it to mean was like real reality or like realness
or something like that. And so it's like a quality that anime have like, Oh, this one is like very
diaju or not. Oh no, no, no, no, no. Oh, okay. Then I don't really know what it means. Please.
Enlighten me. So dia means like you said, real or reality and ju is like filled. So
diaju means your actual life, not online life, actual life is filled. So if I say, Oh yeah,
diaju, that means you're having like, you have a life, actual life, you know, especially people
online find, like I said, talk about diaju. Like if people are like, Oh, I went camping and like
I had a blast, like I did a fishing, barbecuing. Oh, so you're such a diaju. And it's like a bad
thing because like, you should be trying to be more of an otaku who just stays home and watches
anime all day. No, no, not necessary. I think it's, I think in more like positive way to say.
Hmm. I bet it depends on the circumstance. Yeah. The way it's used. Like my guess would be like
that on like, you know, 4chan or whatever it's like, or I guess what I don't need,
Nichan doesn't exist anymore, right? It does. I think you have to pay to join. Oh,
it strikes me as like the kind of people who are on online forums a lot might use it actually as
a pejorative to be like, Oh, you're so lame. You have a real life as opposed to like,
why aren't you like grinding on like our online video games more or something?
Maybe people online might be jealous. So they might say, say something like that too.
Well, and how in the film, I also didn't really understand how it was being deployed in the film.
Like the one character uses it to talk about another character and then he uses it about
himself. And she's like, don't say it about yourself. Yeah. I mean, he didn't understand
the meaning of Riaju. So she kind of explained to him like, you don't really say, Oh, I'm Riaju.
It'd be like weird if you say about yourself. Okay. Because it implies like I'm so busy or
like I have such a, I have such a like cool life doing stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay. So it's filled with good stuff, not work.
No, no, no, no. I mean, if you love the work and you enjoy it, yeah, Riaju, you can say that too.
I feel like I still kind of don't get it. So like, why is it bad to say it about yourself
then to be like, yeah, like, uh, like, sorry, I can't come to like your party.
You know, I'm like, I'm living my life like unlike you.
But I say sliving all the time. And I don't think it's a bad thing.
Nobody says sliving except what's her name?
Except me and Paris Hilton. We're going to bring it back. It's still around.
Just like in our age. I mean, Paris Hilton is in our age, I guess.
Yeah, Paris Hilton is probably like within two or three years of my age. So
I'm going to keep using it shamelessly.
Yeah, I guess you can interpretate it as sliving.
As it's sliving?
Yes! Great. Okay.
I guess it's a good explanation.
It's definitely the word of the day now. Yeah, exactly.
Oh my god. I mean, like, I don't know how many people know sliving. Slay and the living.
Yeah. Only people who watched Cooking with Paris Hilton.
Which got cancelled. Not cancelled, like discontinued.
But it didn't get renewed. Yeah, unfortunately, it was pretty great.
アニメ制作の映画と資料
Anyway, so unfortunately, this movie, Anime Supremacy, is not available in the United States.
But the original novel version in English is sold in the United States.
Or you can go to your local library and borrow.
As far as I know, LA Public Library and the LA County Library has the novel.
So check your local library first, or you can purchase.
Very nice.
Yeah. Alright, anything else you would like to add?
Not necessarily. I do think this was a pretty good film about making anime.
But I want to just put in another plug for Shirobako,
which I think we also got from the LA Public Library, right?
That's how we watched the DVD.
That's how we watched it.
So, you know, if you want to learn more about how anime is actually made,
and you can't wait for Anime Supremacy to come to American Netflix,
you could go to the library and check out Shirobako and watch that,
which is 24 episodes and has good music.
Highly recommended.
エピソードのまとめ
Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode.
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Bye.
Later.
