第20回エピソードの紹介
If you're interested in this manga, go to your local libraries.
I found those mangas exist in LA public libraries.
Whoa, seriously?
Yeah.
Okay.
I was surprised.
LA local library.
So you can check them out.
Push the boundaries.
Konnichiwa! I am your host Mayu for 2AM OTTACK!
In this podcast, we talk all about anime, manga, movies, music, and history through our distinct perspectives.
As a born and raised Japanese non-otaku, that's me, and an American anime fan.
That's me.
This is our 20th episode of 2AM OTTACK!
What? How did it come to go by so fast?
What do you think?
I'm still not used to the fact that we're actually recording a podcast that people might really listen to.
It still feels a little bit to me like a hobby that we do in our spare time as opposed to a serious endeavor.
But I'm proud of us for getting this far.
I feel the same way.
But I also see the numbers, the viewers, listeners' numbers.
So in this world somewhere, someone listens to this and says,
we just don't know who or where.
God bless you, whoever you are listening to this.
Seriously, we're very grateful.
We'd love to have some comments or questions anytime you'd like.
I don't know. Be careful what you wish for, I feel like.
But yes, sure, please do.
Nothing too intense, please.
That's one condition.
So yeah, it's our 20th episode.
2.5D Seductionの内容
And we are going to talk about this manga and anime, which I thought I would never ever watch.
Yet I did, and I really enjoy it.
What are we going to talk about today?
I guess the Japanese title is 二点五次元のリリサ誘惑.
And I'm pretty sure the English title of this show is 2.5D Seduction.
Which is interesting because it leaves out the リリサ part.
But I'm pretty sure it's just 2.5D Seduction.
I had no idea how to read the Japanese title.
It's actually called 二点五次元のリリサ.
So it's written seductively.
Oh, that's furikana.
In kanji, but a red リリサ.
Wow, that's actually really different.
So the title should be 2.5D Ririsa.
Yes.
But for whatever reason, they chose to translate it as 2.5D Seduction.
In English, even I would be like,
I'm not sure I'm going to watch this show.
This seems like on the border of maybe a thing I would be embarrassed to admit watching.
But yeah, then it's not what you think it's going to be, right?
Right. So let's get into it.
Cisco, could you explain what 2.5D Seduction is about?
Okay, so basically, it starts off exactly what you think it's going to be.
The first episode really doesn't explain this show,
but there's a total otaku nerd who's the only member of his school's anime club.
And a girl wanders in and is like,
hello, is this the anime club?
And he's like, yeah.
And she looks at his models and like accidentally breaks all the clothes off one
because it's designed to do that.
He's thinking, no girl should ever come in here, more or less.
But then she's like, oh, I love this character.
I actually really love this show.
She winds up being a cosplayer.
I guess she is a cosplayer who likes cosplaying the very specific character
that he has multiple models of.
I guess he winds up supporting her in her passion to pursue cosplay.
And so most of the show is about her being a cosplayer and them going to cosplay events.
First couple episodes were something you would expect.
You can predict what's going to happen next.
And you'd be like, see, that's what I thought.
And they're still enjoyable.
To me, it looked like something you would see or watch in the 80s or early 90s.
I would actually feel like it's like, yeah, I mean, I guess I watched a lot of anime in the late 90s.
So that's the time period I connected to.
アニメのバトルと内面的葛藤
But it's got a lot of timeless anime tropes about like, oh, no, I'm falling over.
How did my hand land up on your boob?
That kind of stuff.
It was still funny.
I don't know if it was funny because it was so trite and hackneyed and exactly what you would expect.
Or because it was a little bit meta because they're trying to recreate an anime by cosplaying it.
And their life seems like an anime.
And so the sort of doubling there was interesting.
But it was sort of funny and light, even though it was predictable and obvious.
And then it went in a very different direction midway through the show.
Yeah, which I really enjoy.
It becomes more like Oshinoko, in my opinion.
A lot of inner thoughts.
There's definitely a lot of inner monologues.
Towards the end, there's almost like a battle.
But the battle is just girls thinking about each other.
There's no words.
There's no conflict.
They're talking.
They're talking with their eyes.
They're looking at each other or maybe not even actually making eye contact, just being near each other.
And it's like a psychological battle.
So I don't know.
It was both different than I thought it was going to be and still pretty cool.
2.5次元キャラクターの探求
I guess I should also say I feel like there are a pretty good number of manga and anime out there about the world of doujinshi and amateur comic making and stuff that I just haven't seen.
There's for sure an anime from the time when I was still watching anime that I just never saw called Comic Party that I think explores similar terrain.
It might not be as new as I'm making it out to be, but it felt kind of new.
I like the episode when Nagomi, the character, comes up.
And then the main character, Ririsa, shows her first struggle being a cosplayer.
Like, why am I doing this?
Do I really like doing this?
It was a lot of emotions.
It becomes a very emotional anime, which was not something that the beginning suggested it would be.
So I really like how the story turned out so far.
And my understanding, and so correct me if I'm wrong here, but is that in the manga, the manga really started out as very erotic and a lot of skin, a lot of fan service.
But as it became about cosplay, the feedback the author got was like, the parts about cosplay are really good.
And so it kind of shifted in its tone and its focus a little bit to be more about actually the cosplay aspect and less about the fan service.
And which I think I'm okay with also.
And I guess maybe there's a meta level too to the idea of this show being 2.5D seduction.
Like, it seduces you in, making you think it's going to be super fan service-y.
And then it's actually not about that, but it's successfully seduced you into watching it.
We should explain about 2.5 dimensional.
Yeah.
Because in this anime or manga, the main character, Okumura, he said he can't take 3D girls.
Right. Because he gets shot down like once, right?
He just has like a super fragile male ego.
Yeah. So he's not into real human girls.
Or so he tells himself.
Yeah. So like, he really likes the idea of two dimensional girls.
Which is sadly probably more prevalent than people want to admit.
Yeah.
And then Ririsa, the main girl, came in and then she is in between three and two.
So she is 2.5 dimensional girl.
Yeah. And it's interesting that 2.5D also shows up in Oshinoko, where the play is described as a 2.5D play because it's halfway through a manga.
And it's like a stage play adaptation of a manga, thus somehow combining the 2D manga and the 3D acting.
I don't know. There's something that bothers me lexically about the idea of a girl reducing the number of dimensions she has in order to be more likable.
アニメと理想化の探求
That seems really objectifying in a very extreme way.
To be like, if only you were less of a real person, I would like you more.
And then that's kind of celebrated by this anime, right?
To be like, yeah, great idea.
And so I don't want to dismiss the notion that Ririsa is getting something out of acting as a 2.5 dimensional girl.
I think the show is unsure whether it wants to say anything about the idea of the male gaze.
There's a lot of imagery of dudes with cameras taking pictures, which is definitely how cosplayers actually make money and become famous.
But the show is only interested in exploring the female empowerment aspect of that.
To be like, I too get something out of this and really enjoy doing this for a variety of reasons.
I think it's fine that that's the focus of the show.
But there's also just some part of me that's like, let's not forget the overarching theme here, which is I don't want to deal with the complexities of a real human being.
Thus, I will only love an idealized, objectified version of one.
Until I watched this anime, I didn't even really think about 2D or 3D.
But by watching this, I kind of understood why people or the main character says, I prefer 2D.
Because it's only one way, right?
So you can just like the person or character and they don't...
They'll never reject you because they're not real.
I kind of understand.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't know.
I probably understand too much and have a different take on it.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
It also feels like it's glorifying parasocial relationships.
A parasocial relationship being one where you don't actually have a relationship with the person, you just imagine that you do.
I think in the world of fanficking about real people, it's kind of like a 2.5Dification of making people into just characters in order to, I don't know, relate to them more purely.
I think rejecting the 3D world seems like not a great decision to me, even if it is probably some form of ego self-preservation for people.
I see.
Well, I like taking pictures and I often tell you that I don't like taking pictures of people.
Yeah, that's true.
I like taking pictures of, not scenery, like objects, like, I don't know, stationaries or food.
Inanimate objects, yes.
Yeah, which they don't talk back to me.
They can't reject you.
Right, exactly.
I can take my time as much as I want, and the angle I want, and the direction I want, the light I want.
Yeah.
So, I always have better time taking objects rather than people.
Maybe there's an argument there about the creation of art and the ways in which when we create art, we're creating ideals, and it's easier to work in a realm of ideals as opposed to a realm of messy reality.
I feel like Plato would be really into this conversation.
He'd be like, yes, it's all about the ideal forms.
Yeah, it's like food for thought.
ゲームの紹介
This anime is very sensational, and I have to tell you this new information I got.
Ooh, okay.
Hit it.
An online role-playing video game was released for iOS, Android, and PC via DMM Games on September 3rd, 2024, titled 2.5Den no Ririsa, Tenshutachi no Stage.
Okay.
So, it's free to try, I think.
Okay.
And you can kind of go through the story as a character or something.
Huh. What's it rated?
Oh, I didn't check. I don't know.
Oh.
It should be rated. I don't know.
I mean, the anime is rated 13+.
Which is surprising.
Yeah, I mean, because it's sort of a bait-and-switch, maybe I'm okay with that.
And all of the raciest parts are in the very, very beginning.
And then it just gets tamer from there, basically.
アニメのキャラクターと声優の役割
I mean, I guess the teacher's cosplay is on the racy side.
But even there, the stuff from the first episode is much, much more eroic than the later stuff.
Where it's kind of like, oh, you look more like just a regular person.
Okay, I wouldn't go that far.
But it's a less revealing outfit that she wears later on.
You're like, wait, what?
I'm not sure about video games too much.
But that's the new thing.
Shall I explain about seiyuu?
Yeah.
First one, Junya Enoki-san, who did voice for Masamune Okumura.
Wait, I think that's the first time I've ever heard his first name.
I know.
He's just Okumura in the whole show.
No, not even.
I think the teacher calls him Okumura.
But most of the time, the girls call him senpai.
Senpai, yeah.
He's kind of just senpai.
Which is normal.
What?
What?
Yeah.
Notice me senpai is a big, big theme in this anime.
I didn't think the word senpai is a big word between otaku and...
Oh, you were wrong.
I don't know.
Why is that?
It's so normal to me.
I had a senpai.
Right, right, right.
And I was a senpai.
Somebody's senpai.
Yep, that's true.
But it didn't really mean anything.
It just means someone older than you.
Yeah, I think it's just that there were too many anime that cast a dude in the senpai role
and girls in the kohai role.
So that they're constantly addressing this older guy as senpai.
Notice me senpai is a meme I first became aware of from students at a school
using it in non-anime related contexts to describe someone who wants to get noticed by somebody else.
And so that said to me that at least among Gen Z,
notice me senpai had broken out of the world of just otaku to become a general meme,
which sort of blew my mind.
But I think it's a little bit like,
I was saying when I taught Korean students at a boarding school briefly,
it seems to me that the word oppa, meaning like onii-san or big brother,
had the same kind of ring to it.
Basically, it was used so much in pornography that it took on this additional meaning
beyond the basic definition of the term by its association with that medium.
And so I think senpai has gotten a little bit of that color to it
and that plays a role in how it's used and how it sounds in this particular show.
Interesting.
Also, there aren't any girls who are older than him in the show except the teacher.
Both of the two main girls are younger than him and both of them call him senpai.
Anyway, so senpai's voice is by Junya Enoki.
He is the Japanese dubbing voice actor of Tom Holland,
who is known for his role in the Marvel Cinematic Universe as Spider-Man.
Oh, how fascinating.
I'm curious.
Okay. Yeah.
I mean, so that brings to mind the thing of Christian Bale,
who is in a lot of, I think did a lot of the dubbing for,
maybe not a lot, but Christian Bale was Howl in Howl's Moving Castle,
but he's also Batman in the American Batman movies.
And so maybe this is like kind of a similar thing of like,
here's the main character of this random anime, but he's also Spider-Man's voice.
Okay.
Yeah. Also, he did voice for Itadori Yuji from Jujutsu Kaisen.
Oh, that's a big role.
And he was also in Komi Can't Communicate as Komi's brother, Shosuke.
Does that character talk a lot?
No.
No, he doesn't talk.
Okay, so that's like a little bit of like an Easter egg role.
Yeah, technically the few grunts were like this guy.
Yeah.
Okay.
And he was also voice for Kimetsu no Yaiba Demon Slayer,
Sengoku's younger brother.
Okay, that also feels like, okay, good on this guy for landing, you know,
声優とキャラクターの考察
Yuji in Jujutsu Kaisen.
That seems like it was a big step up for him from his other roles.
Yeah.
Akari Kito, who did voice for Tachibana Mikari, the model girl.
Sure.
She's doing the voice for Nezuko from Demon Slayer.
Another character that doesn't really, okay, I'd like, you know,
like far be it for me to like criticize anyone's like jobs,
but it's just funny that like you've been like, yes,
this person was a very famous character that doesn't talk in another anime.
She does talk.
She was like, something like that, which needs like some acting skill.
Yeah, it does.
I am not going to disagree with that.
And also like, oh no,
how am I going to learn all my lines for the role of Nezuko in Demon Slayer?
You have to be expressive with that word.
With your gurs.
Yeah, exactly.
It's hard.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Also the teacher, Mayuri, Mayura is by Mao.
Right.
And this is interesting.
She did a voice for Madoka-chan from Me and Roboco.
Wow.
That is a very different character.
Different voice.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Respect.
Respect.
That's a character that actually talks.
Good job.
It's a good character because like she turns into like.
Yeah.
Madoka's got to get some range because she has to like be able to do the like
gambling voice as well as the regular I'm in like fifth grade voice.
Yeah.
Right.
So, yeah.
Okay.
Applause to all the seiyuu.
Good job.
Actors.
Oh, wait.
You know what?
I think we should give the Didise actress a little bit of extra appreciation
here because doesn't she perform the closing theme song?
Yes.
Yeah.
So.
And a singer.
That's pretty.
That's pretty impressive.
Right.
So, both.
Yeah.
She and Kito Akari.
Ririka and Mikari sing the song together.
Right.
Right.
Right.
Yeah.
At the end.
Okay.
Ririsa.
Ririsa.
Yeah.
Okay.
Watch Me.
Watch Me is the title.
Performed by Kaori Maeda and Akari Kito.
Okay.
And then the opening song is by Mei-chan.
Mm-hmm.
Shutter Chance.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Shutter Chance.
They both have a kind of retro feel to them.
Yeah.
They're both so instantly identifiable as anime theme songs.
Oh, yeah.
And, I mean, that feels appropriate for a show that is about being an otaku and cosplaying.
And, you know, they both grew on me over time.
I think I liked Watch Me immediately because it was just so nostalgic in a way.
Mm-hmm.
And Shutter Chance took me a little while longer to get into, but I eventually liked it.
I just wanted to explain whoever watched, you know, this anime with subtitles.
And there's a character called Nagomi.
Yep.
And her name is written in subtitle seven, five, three.
Mm-hmm.
And if you know Japanese, it makes total sense.
Right.
Because, like, seven is nana.
Mm-hmm.
Five is go.
Mm-hmm.
So, like, you can naturally read Nagomi from the numbers.
Right.
And then there's a heart, which you just don't pronounce.
Yeah.
Which strikes me as, like, kind of like a prince kind of thing, you know?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Why the heart, like, every time?
Because it's cute.
Yeah.
Why not?
Yeah.
Yeah.
No.
Okay.
I'll take it.
I mean, like, I get thrown by, like, things that are silent in names, but especially emojis.
Hmm.
Yeah.
I don't know what it's worth.
Also, I have to tell this.
Like, I got excited when I saw episode four, five, six.
Oh.
Was when, you know, they're going to, like, some event or gathering and getting on the train.
アニメと鉄道の結びつき
And they showed the names of stations, which doesn't exist.
It's not real.
Uh-huh.
But it really looked similar to the stations I used to use.
So I googled.
I went back to the episodes and, you know, paused it.
And then, like.
True otaku status here.
Yes.
Thank you.
And one, it says Kamatani Eki.
Okay.
And then definitely that's Keihin Tohoku Sen.
Okay.
And it also said Yamagawa Sen and Ikenami Sen.
Uh-huh.
Sounds familiar?
Yeah.
That sounds like this is Kamata Eki.
Right.
And you've got the Ikegami Sen and the Keihin Tohoku Sen.
No, not Keihin Tohoku Sen.
Ikegami Sen and the Tamagawa Sen, which is like two short lines.
Oh, right.
Right.
So it's like, I know this place.
So they might go to school near where you used to live.
Yeah.
I don't know any schools around there, but probably.
Cool.
So I was really stoked to find out about it.
Nice.
Some like anime, Holy Ground.
I guess they go to Yokosuka in one episode, right?
That's true.
And so that means they would have been riding on a line that you are very familiar with.
Not Keihin Tohoku, sorry. Keikyu, right?
The Keikyu line, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Anyway, I don't want to geek too much about trains.
All right.
エロい用語の解説
Let's do word of the day.
All right.
I think it has to be eroi because I've said it like four times.
Really?
I mean, I used it repeatedly to describe this anime.
And I feel like we're doing a disservice if we don't talk about it.
Okay.
I prepared one, but we can go with that.
No.
Which one did you prepare?
I was thinking layer.
Oh, yeah.
Okay.
That's a good one, too.
Okay.
Go ahead.
Okay.
So I'm going to do eroi because I said it a bunch of times.
Eroi comes from English from the word erotic, and it's transformed into a Japanese adjective
form by just adding the "-i-" ending after ero.
And so it describes anything that's kind of sexy or involves nudity or skin or suggestions
of sex.
And it's a little bit less extreme than other ways to say the same thing.
In my mind, somehow, ecchi, which is derived from hentai, the word for perversion.
Oh, really?
Did you seriously not know that?
No.
It comes from hentai?
Yeah.
Ecchi comes from H.
Yes.
Ecchi, right?
Yeah.
From the, like, standing for hentai.
Really?
Yes.
I never thought of anything about that word.
That is mind-blowing.
I've known that since I was, like, probably younger than I should have learned it.
Because you Googled about it?
No.
I read about it in, like, an actual book.
I think, like, a book about Japanese culture.
When, again, I was, like, I think I was, like, I don't know.
I was at a tender young age when I read this.
But I've known that, like, forever.
It's funny, because, you know, elementary school kids say ecchi, or kindergarten students can say ecchi.
Right.
And they don't understand that it's connected to hentai.
No.
Oh, yeah.
That's where it comes from, though.
That's amazing.
So, in my mind, like, ecchi is, like, a little bit above eroi in terms of, like, sexual content for some reason.
Like, eroi could just be, like, you know, partial nudity or something.
Whereas, like, ecchi has, like, a little bit more of, like, there's actually some sex in this.
Right.
Or, like, maybe it's just, I don't know.
It feels, like, a little bit higher.
It's a big word.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like, a little bit higher on the scale.
So, anyway.
But eroi is, like, anything that's sort of, like, appealing to that same sense of eros.
コスプレ文化の探求
Right.
Like the, which is a Greek word for love.
Really?
Yeah.
But, like, sexual words, specifically.
The Greek has a lot of words for love, and not all of them mean the same thing.
So, eros is the romantic or sort of sexual form.
But, so, that's eroi.
Go ahead and hit us with your word.
The word I was going to say is leia.
Leia, in the show, like, characters say, like, leia-san.
Leia-san.
Right.
And, like, I had no idea what it was.
And then later I noticed, oh, that means cosplayer.
Yes.
You know, a lot of people know, like, Japanese people, like, shorten words.
Right.
Cosplayer is not, like, a long word, but, like, too long for Japanese people, I guess.
Yeah.
So, yeah, leia is cosplayer.
Yeah.
I think for English speakers, it's, like, player and leia are the same number of syllables and, like, not significantly longer than one another.
So, the notion of being, like, we took a word that would make total sense, player, and decided to remove just the opening P feels like a strange choice.
Especially when layer means a different thing in English.
Right.
But, like, syllables, like, I don't understand English.
Yeah.
But if I say it with Japanese syllables, it'll be ko-su-pu-re-i-ya.
So, it's six.
Yeah, that's long.
That's long.
So, it has to be re-i-ya.
It's still four, right?
I don't know.
It's okay.
Yeah, I mean, so, I noticed that, too, that I had not heard that phrase before.
Mm-hmm.
And I wonder, like, a little bit about, like, what exactly is the difference between a...
I mean, I guess a leia is just someone who, like, is specifically doing cosplay.
Mm-hmm. Sounds like it, yeah.
And, like, not any other type of modeling because mikari is a model.
Not, like, an idol, not a leia.
No.
And, I mean, she's not doing cosplay, so that makes sense.
Yeah.
So, that's the word.
Yes.
All right.
Good choice.
Do you want to add anything?
This was a surprisingly, like, nuanced anime that really seemed like it was just going
to be, like, a fan service thing and then had, like, a kind of interesting exploration
of what it means to be a cosplayer or what that hobby is like in a de-stigmatizing kind
of way.
And, like I said, there's still, like, parts of the whole ecosystem of cosplay that, like,
I feel like this show could be, like, examining a little bit more critically that it's not.
But, on the whole, I enjoyed it, and I thought it did a good job centering some of the female
characters as, like, the main characters, despite, like, the guy being ostensibly kind
of, like, the person the story turns around.
I really enjoyed watching from the episode 1 to 12 so far.
And then I liked, I didn't know anything about cosplay.
Like, I've never done it.
Like, I never really paid attention.
But it was really interesting, like, what they're going through.
And it's, you know, on the show, it's mostly girls.
Right.
It's complicated.
Like, girls, those, like, kind of group or world is not always fun to live.
For sure.
Yeah.
But, yeah, I liked knowing the new kind of world.
Right.
Genre.
Yeah.
And, yeah, I really enjoyed it.
And also, I liked Ririsa is such an otaku.
Yeah.
That part was cool.
Yeah.
So, I liked that.
Support.
Yeah.
If you're interested in this manga, go to your local libraries.
I found those mangas exist in LA public libraries.
Whoa, seriously?
Yeah.
Okay.
I was surprised.
LA local library.
So, you can check them out.
Pushing the boundaries.
So, check your local library if you want to read this series for free.
Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode.
If you liked this week's episode, please give us five stars on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.
Or like and leave a comment on YouTube.
Make sure to subscribe and follow 2AMOTAK and 3AMOTAK.
It'll keep us making more fun episodes.
See you next time for more 2AMOTAK.
