00:04
Konnichiwa! I'm your host Mayu for 3AM OTTACK! In this podcast, we talk all about anime, manga,
movies, music, and the history through our distinct perspectives as a born and raised Japanese
non-otaku, me, and an American anime fan. That's me! Welcome, welcome! I'm Mayu like I introduced
myself. Could you introduce about yourself, please? Sure, my name is Cisco. I'm Mayu's
husband. I've been an anime fan since I was 11, and I'm fluent in Japanese.
Awesome. I'm opposite. I'm a wife of him. And even though I was born and raised in Japan,
I don't really know much about that culture, anime, manga culture. I grew up watching like
Ghibli or some like animes for little kids, but it's a new territory for me. I'm still exploring
and learning from my husband and from our friend who is a manga artist. And we actually started
another podcast called 3AM OTTACK! And we talk about the same topic as this one,
but all in Japanese. So she can't join sometimes so we decided to do our own version all in English
for non-Japanese speaking audiences. I gotta say I'm thrilled that we're recording in English
because this is just going to be so much easier for me. It's challenging for me. So
now we have 3AM OTTACK! We talk three people and 2AM for two people so it's easy to understand.
エピソードの概要
Okay, now let's get started. Today we would like to talk about Golden Kamuy.
We both recently watched the anime version and we really liked watching and I really liked the
storyline and everything. So before we dive into it, Cisco, could you read the description,
explanation, what it's called? Sure, it's a little bit of like a synopsis.
Summary? Yeah, summary taken straight from Wikipedia. Golden Kamuy is a Japanese manga
series written and illustrated by Satoru Noda. It was serialized in Shueisha's seinen manga
magazine Weekly Young Jump from August 2014 to April 2022, with its chapters collected in 31
tankobon volumes. The story follows Saeichi Sugimoto, a veteran of the early 20th century
Russo-Japanese War, and his quest to find a huge fortune of gold of the Ainu people,
helped by a young Ainu girl named Ashirupa. The Ainu language in the story is supervised by
Hiroshi Nakagawa, an Ainu language linguist from Chiba University. We've seen up to the end of the
third season of the anime and I've been reading the manga and I think I'm on the sixth tankobon,
so I have not gotten very far. Well, how do you feel about this anime and the manga?
I love it. I've really been excited to read it, both because so much of the information is new to me,
even though I was an East Asian Studies concentrator, I guess is what you would say, in my
college. I feel like I really haven't learned that much about the Ainu people, and so getting to
sort of know the culture via this manga has been really cool. And we went on a trip last summer to
Hokkaido and did a road trip kind of around the whole island and saw a bunch of stuff that shows
up in Golden Kamuy. So it's been really cool that we got to experience it firsthand and then
read about it later and make all these great connections. So true, so true. Yeah, we kind of
followed the route as Sugimoto and Ashirippa went on their journey, which was interesting.
旅の計画
And when we were trying to plan the trip to Hokkaido, I was not sure about going to Abashiri
because it's pretty far, but you really wanted to go and you really wanted to go see the prison
over there. Well, I didn't even know it was there. You were saying you wanted to go to the
Ryusho Museum, the Iceberg Museum, because you'd been there as a kid. And then when I was trying
to figure out how to get there on Google Maps, I saw that it was basically right next to the
Abashiri Prison Museum. And I guess many, many years ago, we went to the Alcatraz Museum in
the Bay Area. And I remember really liking that museum. It was a really cool experience to go to
Alcatraz. And so I think that's why when I saw the Abashiri Prison Museum, I was like, oh, I bet
it's really good. And it was. They recreated the whole prison. And then they had lots of,
I guess they had a lot of Golden Kamuy, I don't know, material or promo material in the prison.
That was like a gift shop and stuff. Yeah. I think that was part of what made us decide to
watch it, actually. Yeah. Yeah. I think, I don't know, like I'm from northern part of Japan,
kind of close to Hokkaido. But whenever I hear the word Abashiri, the name Abashiri,
I associate with prison, like immediately, because I've never watched this before. But
there was a movie about the prison. A lot of Japanese people think about the Abashiri
equal the prison. But it's not actually in use anymore, right? Or did they build a new one
アバシリ刑務所の美しさ
somewhere? I think they built a new one. The museum one is like an old one. Got it. Yeah.
But it was amazing. It was kind of beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. It was like a very pretty, at least
the place where they held all the prisoners was sort of like, had like a very, I don't know,
brutal beauty to it. I agree. I mean, it's kind of, it's not like, you know, metal kind of concrete
kind of thing. It's made out of wood. Right. So even though the places must be freezing in winter,
it gives kind of give you like a warm feeling inside of it when we visited in summer.
I definitely feel like it's it feels warmer than like concrete prisons, which feel really,
really cold. And kind of like I also just like American prisons are like intensely dehumanizing
places. And I think kind of the rest of the world isn't as like awful to its prisoners as the United
States is. And this I think if I'm if I remember correctly, the Abashiri prison is based on like a
French or a Belgian prison or something. So like it doesn't really have that same kind of like,
you know, we are here to make you miserable kind of architecture that American prisoners have.
More humane? I mean, it's still a prison. Like I don't really want to call it a humane
place. And it's definitely designed to try to prevent escapes and stuff. It just feels like,
I don't know, like when you walk through Alcatraz, like it just feels like it was designed
『ゴールデンカムイ』のキャラクターたち
to make people feel awful. And like, the Abashiri prison doesn't feel like quite as just like evil,
for lack of a better way to put it. Right, right. Alcatraz, like it looks kind of scary inside.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So yeah, at the Abashiri prison, there's a famous prisoner who used to
escape from every like, prison he went. And that person is became the model for one of the
characters in Golden Kamei. And he's really funny. I like that. I like the character.
Yeah, I think they've they've done a good job making Shida Ishii like a comedic relief character
and also, you know, sort of being true to the story of the guy that he's based on in terms of
his ability to get out of different places. Right. So who's else like, who's your favorite
character in Golden Kamei? I mean, I definitely like Sugimoto a lot, just because he's like such
a badass. But I found myself really liking Ogata, who is like a bad guy, more or less.
But I think especially in the anime, like, his voice is so cool that like, I sort of can't help
like rooting for him, even though well, and he's like, and he's just like, so talented. Like, he's
such a good sniper that like, he also gives off like a very like, cool vibe. And so I like both
of those characters a lot. Okay. I personally like Tanigaki, because I'm from Akita Prefecture in
Japan, which gets really cold in winter. And Tanigaki is from Akita. And he's like called
Matagi, who's like a bear hunter in Akita. So I really like the character and his side story that
there was like a one entire episode about his past, which was like, shocking, and like moving,
and like, surprising, like it was like, so perfect. I just wanted to see more of it.
Feel like you got to root for like the hometown boy, right?
Like, I'm biased. Yes.
Yeah. I mean, Tanigaki is cool. I like him too. But I feel like the fact that you know,
some actual bear hunters in real life also like made you like a little bit more of like his supporter.
That's true. I yeah, I know one bear hunter, like my friend got married to a bear hunter who's a
hair, what do you call barber?
Yeah, he's a barber. Yeah, you're right.
He's a barber. But like when he when it's needed, he goes to goes in the mountain and then hunt
bears with other folks. Which is cool. And he told me about how they're like a gun regulations
in Japan is really, really strict. Yeah, it was really fascinating. And it must be.
I don't know, like, maybe he used to have something, but it must be terrifying
to you that you have to face bears and then like kind of basically fight it.
I think it must be like a lot scarier to face bears in like the timeframe of Golden Kamuy,
where like, your gun only has like five bullets. And like, it's not doesn't even have that much
stopping power. Like, I'm sure it's terrifying to hunt bears in the modern day also. But like,
the kinds of guns that we have now, like just feel like, probably like you have a better chance
of surviving an encounter with a bear, like a lot better chance nowadays than like you used to.
Right, right. And in Golden Kamuy, so there's a like a one of the main characters name is
Ashiripa. And she is from Ainu village. And they in the anime, they explain a lot about like
アイヌ文化の探求
culture, Ainu culture, and they see a lot of things as Kamuy, God. Yeah. And I like the aspect
of like, they like explaining to audiences, I think, like mainly Japanese people at the beginning
about their own culture that we didn't really learn at school.
Right. Well, I mean, I just remember being surprised that Kamuy was God, like that that was
the word for God. And because that's like, oh, it's like almost exactly the same as the regular
Japanese word for God, Kamuy. Like, clearly, those things are related, right? It's not like,
you know, that came out of nowhere. And so I, I don't know, I think like,
Japanese, like, understand, like Japanese people's understanding of their own history,
to me is always really interesting. Because there's like, kind of this like big unwillingness
to admit that like modern day Japanese people came from Korea, even though like modern Japanese
language is like, totally related to Korean. And then like, there's also this sort of like
unwillingness to admit that like, the Ainu people like existed in most of or all of the
islands of Japan, like before the newer Korean arrivals, like push them out. And like, that
part of history isn't emphasized in like, any of the like, Japanese texts I used to study Japanese
history. And I think like, there's a lot of parallels with the way that Americans don't
learn about Native Americans, or, you know, at least, like Native Americans sort of didn't appear
very much in American history textbooks until like the 1990s or so. And so it feels like Japan is
still kind of far behind and like educating its own people about like the Ainu as people. And like,
if you were to watch like, I don't know, like a Western today, like you might see the way Native
Americans are portrayed in like American cinema and be like, oh, we've like come like a really
long way in terms of like, both educating people about like, what Native American life was like
outside of things like movies, and like, having depictions of Native Americans in ways that are
like, I don't know, equitable, and like, realistic, and I don't know, like fair. Whereas like, again,
like this being the first time I've ever seen Ainu people like depicted, I guess maybe, maybe
you could argue Princess Mononoke had some like, I don't know, if not Ainu, then at least like
people in it. But like, it's a, I think it's great that like, they there's so much to be learned from
the show. And at the same time, it's sort of like, highlights how little most Japanese people learn
about like, the indigenous people of the islands of Japan.
名前の重要性
Yeah, I wish I learned more about it. But I like, I don't know, like, I didn't really
I'm trying to study by myself. But I like in this trip, we made it to into Hokkaido,
we learned a little bit about the culture. And by watching this anime, I learned a lot about
the culture too. And I'm like, there's like funny things about like, little kids get
like a special names when they were young, so that evil spirits don't come or like, you know,
give sickness or anything. So like Ashiripa, right? Her name is like grandpa's butthole.
Is that right?
Yeah, I think I think you're right that that's the, that was her original name. And I was gonna
say actually, that's like not, I think coming up with the names that are sort of like dirty things
is it seems pretty unique to the Ainu. But like, there are a lot of cultures that don't name kids
until they're older, because they're afraid, like, if you give them a name, they'll die like
too young. I think I remember like being a little kid and reading like a book about Japanese culture
that said, like, Japanese parents tend not to scold kids really hard until they're like five
to seven. And that like, really? Yeah. I mean, I don't know if this is true in your lifetime. I
think this was like, true, like, nope, a long time ago. Well, and, and your family, but like,
I supposedly there were like times where like, before starting school, basically, like Japanese
parents were pretty indulgent towards children for a similar reason of like, high child mortality,
and like not wanting like, to like, essentially scare their spirits back away. But I think that's
like a that's like a common practice in like, societies where child mortality is a thing is like,
different, different ways of trying to like not either attack yourself too hard to kids that
might die anyway, or like, or like a rite of passage of like, congratulations, you survived
early childhood, like, now we will take you seriously or give you a real name. But yeah,
I think it's funny that like the Ainu in particular, give them like names of things that are
アイヌの食文化
gross, so that the evil spirits like won't want to get near them. Yeah, it's a very like a unique
idea. Okay, so I want to talk about the food they eat. Because they because they hunt so much.
They eat like squirrels, they eat bears, they like deers, and fish as well. Yep. Yeah,
they're like a lot of scenes of like cooking, which I kind of enjoy. Yeah, I came to this manga
not that long after reading Shokugeki no Soma. So there were food wars. So I feel like I also
appreciated the emphasis on food. Although I can really relate to Sugimoto not wanting to try some
of the delicacies that Ashiripa offers him. Like, she keeps trying to make him eat eyeballs and
brains, both of which are things I would also struggle with wanting to put in my mouth.
I don't know. I don't think I would be scared to eating those things too. But other parts maybe.
Yeah, that some of the other stuff seems okay. I'm personally vegetarian. But, but I might,
I might try if I hunt by myself. And if there are too many of whatever on it was
hurting ecosystem or something, I might I don't know. But yeah, like, and then like,
you know, that miso, miso paste is seems like a such a big like, condiment in the show.
Well, I think it's, you know, it was a big deal for the Japanese troops in the army, right? It's
a preserved food. So you can like carry it with you and like add it to kind of anything in order
to make it taste better. And it seems like one of the big plot points of the show, well not plot
points. But one of the big things in the show is that the Ainu clearly don't have miso. And so
find it to be like rare and sort of a novelty. Yeah. And then like Ashiripa calls it osoma,
which means like poop. Because it looks like poop. I mean, it does. It does. Yeah, it does.
She's right. But miso is great. I love miso. Yeah, I like it too. Okay, so. All right. So
I would like to, you know, teach a word in Japanese for each episode. Yeah. So I don't
know. Like, do you have any suggestion today? I think the I mean, there's, I guess we're not
going to do like a lot more Golden Kamuy episodes. But I think the one that sums it up for me is
Fujimi. Immortal, because it's what Sugimoto keeps screaming whenever he gets like a wound that
would kill most other people. But he says, you know, Ore wa Fujimi no Sugimoto da! And so Fujimi
meaning like, not, what, not death body, right? Uh huh. Yes. Am I, is that right? Those are the
right characters? Yeah, yeah. And so Fujimi, immortal, is like, is my pick since we're going
with immortal Sugimoto. Wait, wait, wait, how does he say that? The phrase in English? I think
I've only actually because we watched it in Japanese subtitled. I don't know. You read it?
Yeah, I think he says I'm immortal, or I'm the immortal Sugimoto. So. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So
Fujimi, I don't know if we ever have a chance to use it.
Well, if anyone ever stabs you, and you decide to like, keep fighting them anyway,
you should terrify them by screaming, Ore wa Fujimi no Sugimoto da! And then like,
like attack them. That's definitely, I think it would work. That would scare the person.
Why are you speaking Japanese? What the hell is going on? For sure.
Yeah, yeah. Okay. Well, anything else you would like to add?
I'll put one more word of the day, just because it's the one that I feel like we got the most
out of in terms of it being an Ainu word. And that is Hina Hina, which means delicious,
or, you know, tasty. And I feel like in Japan, lots of foreigners going to Japan will remember,
you know, either umai or oishii because everybody's got to eat. And so much of the
food in Japan is really tasty. So I think Hina Hina is a good word to remember if you
ever happen to be in like an Ainu village in Hokkaido, and you're eating something
like squirrel brains. Okay. Thank you so much.
All right. So our first episode went pretty well, I think.
Sure. Yeah. So I hope we'll keep doing this
whenever our other partner couldn't make it to the recording. So hope to do that again.
All right. Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode. Don't forget to subscribe
and follow 2am ATT&CK and 3am ATT&CK on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and on YouTube. It would mean so
much to us and we'll keep making fun episodes. See you next time at more 2am ATT&CK!
