エピソードの概要
Whose fault is this or is this like nobody's fault and like everybody even the people who are being abused like it's their
Responsibility to like try to like get their own lives in order
You know like by seeking help or is this like really somebody's fault and we need to like figure out whose fault it is to
Make sure that they get punished for like the wrong things that they've done
And so I think like this anime is asking some interesting questions about that
Welcome back to 2AM OTTACK! I'm your host Mayu, a born-and-raised Japanese non-otaku and I'm your co-host Cisco, an American otaku.
In this podcast, we share our reviews of anime and manga through our distinct perspectives with commentary on Japanese culture,
History, and the language. Cisco. Yeah, we just finished watching fourth and fifth episode of Takopi's
Original Sin. Yeah. What's your thought? It's so depressing. It is depressing, but at the same time
Confusing. Yeah, I have to say one of my big overall thoughts is how similar this is to the manga that I read by the
same author in Jump
In that there's a lot of like not exactly time travel
But sort of sometimes time travel and also, you know, this thing happened
Rewind or like do-over or whatever like there's a lot of lack of clarity about the timeline in both shows
And so I'm getting deja vu a little bit even though the other series is newer than this one. Interesting
So we already talked about Takopi's Original Sin about episode 1 to 2
so if you're interested in check those episodes out first and
We're gonna talk about from episode of 3 to 5. It'll include some spoilers
エピソードの『タコピの告白』
I'm sure so check those episodes out first before we start
We'd like to hear from you share your thoughts ideas questions or even suggestions that we should talk about
Send us message to the email in the description or you can use Spotify and YouTube comment section as well
Alright, let's go through episode of 3 to 5
Let me read the titles from episode 1 to 5 first episode of title is to you in
2016 second episode is Takopi's
salvation third episode title is Takopi's confession title number four is
Azuma-kun's salvation and
Episode of five is to you in
2022
so when I saw the title of
Episode of five I thought it was somehow connected to the first episode
Which says
2016 and when I first saw the episode of one I was wondering why does it have to be?
2016 oh, so it's a past. Yeah. Yeah, and the reason I felt confusing was because I watched
Episode of five and seems like Takopi has been on earth
Before she met like she was trying to save Shizuka. Do you think of Takopi as a she I don't know
Interesting you said she you referred to Takopi with a like a feminine pronoun. Okay. I don't know why they well
I don't know either. I think interestingly I would have said for Takopi he even though Takopi is clearly genderless
So maybe I'm just projecting myself into Takopi. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know either. Is it alien? Yeah
エピソード3の詳細
Yeah, yeah, so it was interesting the titles and comparing the titles what was happening in episode three Cisco
so episode three opens with Marina just having been murdered and
Azuma finds the body almost immediately while Takopi and
Shizuka are still there and he goes into like I have to like protect Shizuka mode
So he's like well, we got to like do something about the body
So you don't get I think first he's like we should just tell the cops and she's like no we can't do that
I'll be sent to Juvie, which is like I mean probably realistically true, right?
So she's like let's cover up the crime instead and it sort of immediately sort of manipulates him to like join their cause instead
Of like doing the right thing just reporting it to the to the cops like right away
And it's interesting that Shizuka doesn't seem to do that out of like concern for Takopi. Who's the actual murderer?
Um, even though it's not clear that Shizuka knows that
She won't be believed when she says like Takopi did or maybe she does it's not clear
Anyway, they hide the body by putting it in like a space capsule thing that Takopi has
and then bury it like very shallowly because they're grade schoolers and
And then and then make plans to go to Tokyo so that Shizuka can be reunited with her dog Chappie
Which everybody else seems to know is a lie that the dog is not there, right?
The dog's almost certainly just been killed after biting Marina, but Shizuka believes Chappie is there
So she sort of enlists Asuma in making a plan to escape to Tokyo during summer vacation so they can find her dog
I think episode one two, three four
I think like it captures each kids like feelings and like what you can see
Through Takopi's eyes sort of not Asuma's I guess but as Takopi was trying to be Shizuka
and Takopi was also trying to be
Marina and you could see through what their lives were like and it's just not opposite of happy
So it was interesting to see then like a bully side and then a person who gets bullied
Also, like Asuma-kun is not bullied or she's not a bully
Well, yeah, he's not bullied by his peers at school. Do you say he's bullied by his parents?
Well, yeah, I mean his mom is like really awful to him, right?
It was I was watching that episode and I felt like am I doing okay as a parent?
Yeah, I think it definitely makes you question, you know
親の虐待とその影響
What sorts of inducements to like get your kids to study are okay and which ones aren't but like it's really
I mean it's suggested that by the time he was six his mother was like
Withholding food from him for not getting a hundred percent on tests. Like that's pretty extreme
I think I might be a little bit strict but not that strict. I mean, it's like a
Mentally hurting it's not physical thing, but you're not verbally abusing our children. Don't worry
It's it's really like I understand why this episode would make any parent be like, oh no
Like am I an abusive? I think the show is about abusive parents. We've got a neglectful parent
No, that's Shizuka's mom and a completely absent parent
Shizuka's dad who just like left the family and ran away. We have an actually physically abusive parent
That's Marina's mom and a like, I don't know
It's not clear like how verbally abusive he is tomorrow now
But like another sort of a neglectful or absent parent Marina's dad and then we have a like
I don't mean I guess I don't know if she's she's verbally abusive
She's not actually saying like you're useless your chip alike
She's definitely emotionally like extremely manipulative and potentially abusive to her kid
学校の大人たちの無関心
And she seems extremely controlling to both of her kids and that's Azuma's mom and then his dad is like not in the picture, right?
He's dead or something
We haven't heard anything about his dad
so all the fathers are just absent like none of the fathers are really in the picture except for money and his dad who's
Definitely abusive at least verbally if not also physically towards a Marina's mom and like yeah, all the parents are kind of monsters
There's no like good parents in the show
Yeah, and then you can't really see what's happening in the school
But you can see a like a little bit of teacher
Classroom teacher and she seems like like she doesn't care what's happening the class
So she sound kind of sounded like she hates her job
Yeah, the teacher is also a terrible adult all the teachers in the school are terrible adults
I mean one of their kids has like a bunch of verbally abusive messages written on her desk and
Backpack in like giant bold letters and no one is even like stopping to be like, hey, it seems like you're not
okay, so the classroom teacher is terrible and yeah definitely seems like depressed or like ineffective and
There should be other adults in the school who've also noticed what's going on and they're all turning a blind eye
So like all the adults in the show like period so far have been terrible
視聴者へのメッセージ
The only good character at all thus far in the story is Azuma's older brother jr. No one else is good
I think it's a good show for parents to watch in a way to sort of be like don't be a monster parent
Don't be a monster parent that reflect yourselves and see I got worried about myself
Like am I doing like being too strict with my kids or like I'm not that extreme
I know that but like it's like a reminding of me like you have to not like that
Don't be an abuser. Yes. That's a good thing to remember. Yeah, and then like the fact that there are
Families and parents and you know kids like that in the world like if you live in a happy
Environment, you wouldn't really know
Right, what other people are going through? Yeah. Yeah, so I thought it was a good
Reminder, but I wouldn't let my kids watch the show yet because they're not I don't think they are capable
To you know take it in and it might be too much
I mean, it's horribly depressing no matter how old you are
But I think actually kids probably have a really different reaction to this show because I don't think for them
It's at all about like oh, no. Am I a horrible parent, right?
I think for them it's like they probably just relate to the experiences of the kids in the show
I mean, it'd probably be pretty extreme to relate to she's because experiences
She's she's like really really suffering should probably be taken away from her parent and put into like the care of CPS or something
And actually that's probably true for Martina, too
Although until she gets the giant scar on her face from her mother attacking her with a broken glass bottle
you know her home life at least she's got like, you know food and shelter and like
Baths and things that she's a good doesn't seem to have so
It's maybe a little bit of tougher call and as I'm is definitely not getting taken away by CPS
His mom's mean to him and is definitely causing him some stress that he's gonna need therapy for but he's not like an at-risk
Child, right?
Like he's like growing up healthily in like a home with a parent who provides the basics of life for him
So but I think yeah
I think most kids would probably identify the most with Azuma because his situation is the least extreme and
The one that most kids especially in Japan face in terms of like pressure for achievement
Yeah, that's true. As a you know, as a Japanese child growing up in Japan
I never had that kind of experience like my parents never pushed me to study hard. Would you say you were Shizuka not?
No, I'm not neither. Yeah. Yeah, and then it's I thought it was interesting cuz like growing up like only seeing my parents
I thought my parents are awesome
but after I grew up and become parents and the seeing other parents and the
虐待のサイクル
Parenting's I realized hmm. Okay
So my parents maybe not the best
yeah, I think I think actually I had the opposite experience where I grew up being like
God, my parents suck and then like as an adult was like, oh my parents were like awesome
oops
That's a good realization cuz like I like my parents
but I like there are a lot of different ways of parenting and
What I started with my like first child like a parenting style was like very similar to
My parents parenting style started saying and then notice what I was saying and telling my kid
It was exactly like I was told by my parents
well
I think that's actually a good point that many of us repeat the same sort of like patterns that we were raised with and
This show is definitely interested in that right?
I mean, it's got that whole comment and I think episode 5 where Tucker P is like
Oh like that's the reason you hit me so much Marina
It's because you're practicing being a parent and you see the effect that that has on her where she's like
Snap like I am definitely like repeating the cycle of abuse that I've been you know was exposed to I mean
It's like a really well-established like, you know pattern that people who are victims of abuse are at greater risk of going on
to become abusers
than
Those who are not there's you know
I think that's a scary thing to say because it makes it seem like unavoidable outcome and it's not I think like especially if you
Recognize that and take steps to like not to become an abuser yourself then
You know that can really help a lot
But it's just true that we you know
We imprint what parenting is by looking at our own parents
And so when your parents are or have been abusive it takes a lot of work to overcome
That style or model of how to be a parent when when you become a parent if you become a parent
It was like normal during the time
I was kid like parents like hit kids head or like, you know, wherever or like, you know school like a really hard
I didn't hit my kids because I thought it's simply bad for your brain
Yeah, and it's like it's not great for the kids and you could go to jail and stuff right in America, especially
I don't know about parents parenting style in in Japan right now
but I don't know how many times I was hit by my parents and I thought that was normal and
Because like my parents both of my parents were hit by parents too, right?
It's like it's just repeated and so some of that, you know becomes a question of like culture, right?
Like how does one culture raise its children versus another and like, you know, I was spanked as a child
But that was also culturally appropriate at the time and it didn't like physically damage me in any way, you know
I wasn't spanked so hard. I had like I don't know cuts or bruises or anything
It was more like a sort of a humiliation technique
I think really more than anything and it was normalized at the time
But my parents never hit me anywhere else and I don't think ever hit me out of anger only out of like discipline essentially
So, yeah
I mean some of that become you know
When we use like really simple ways of describing is like I was hit like well
it's really different to like
Get spanked as like this is your punishment for having done this thing
You weren't supposed to do as opposed to like your parent is drunk and angry and like uppercuts you and knocks your teeth out
Right, like that's not the same type of thing. And so it's tricky. Yeah
I'm glad like things are changing and it's getting better in Japan as well
Okay, so after watching episode 5 I got confused and you know, you were saying about the timeline
Do you want to try to guess what this episode is about? Sure
so up through episode 4 this the timeline is fairly straightforward other than Takobi having used the magic camera to
Reset Shizuka's death every week and try to find a way to stop her from committing suicide
And then once the camera is broken at the end of episode 2 that's no longer possible
And we're in a pretty straightforward linear time going up to the end of episode 4
But in episode 5 we all of a sudden travel to a different timeline in which some things are unclear to me
and I think it's because of the English translation because I was really reading the
Translation rather than listening to the Japanese in this episode
But in episode 5 I thought it was implied that Marina had bullied Shizuka when they were kids
She had not quote not killed her in fourth grade and she quote should have killed her in fourth grade
And then it appears that like I wonder whether
some type of bullying that Marina did subject Shizuka to at that time led to
Marina's mom flying into such a rage that she cut her daughter's face with a glass object
very like permanently scarring Marina both like
Mentally and physically and then Marina seems to have it seems like Shizuka went away after fourth grade
Marina, maybe also transferred schools
This isn't explicitly stated but it is sort of implied and then in middle school
it looks like Marina and Azuma and Shizuka all wound up back at their
school together or at their middle school together so that they like they somehow came back they all came back to the same place and
Takopiの過去との対峙
From that point on it seems like when Takopi arrived on earth originally
He met Marina first and saw all of the abuse that Marina was suffering at home from her mother
Who's like still unbalanced because Marina's dad is the philanderer, you know
Like going out to like hostess clubs spending his money with other women, but actually he's not in the picture in that in episode 5
So it's not clear whether that's still going on or whether they've like fully broken up or what is happening there
But she's still being abused by her mom. That's clear. And when she
reconnects with Azuma
she invites him over for like a date to like meet her mom or have dinner together or something and
That everything seems like it's going well between them until Shizuka
reappears from some other school transfers in Azuma immediately falls in love with her and ditches out on going to
Marina's dinner at which point Marina's mom flies into another murderous rage and
Marina's like the only way to make things better is to go back in time to fourth grade and kill Shizuka
So Takopi flies back to his home planet
travels back in time comes back has his memories erased right and then
Tries to get to Shizuka to murder her in fourth grade
But by the time he gets there
I'm not really clear on whether he's actually fully had his memories erased and doesn't know he's supposed to kill her or does know
That but she's nice to him. And so he changes his mind
Sorry, this is all me saying Takopi's he but Takopi changes their mind and decides not to kill Shizuka
like none of that's really clear except that that seems to start well that seems to be where the
Series actually starts is with Takopi having gone back in time
Potentially to kill Shizuka and so then there's a scene at the end of episode 5 of Takopi meeting Azuma
That kind of seems like it's set after the events of episode 5 where Shizuka arrives in Tokyo meets her dad
he pretends not to know who she is and obviously choppy is not there and
Shizuka has asked Takopi for a magical tool to be able to cut people open and see what's in their stomachs because she think her
Little stepsisters half sisters ate her dog and then when Takopi is like no
I don't have that it really looks like she's gonna try to kill him
So it's not clear whether Takopi is
back from Tokyo having not been successfully killed by Shizuka and meeting Azuma after the events of that summer or
we're in another timeline all together where Takopi meets Azuma first or
Something else and so I felt frustrated by the end of episode 5 where I was like
I want more clarity on which timeline we're in like what's what's happened and what hasn't happened
And I'm really hoping that the last episode will tie those loose threads together
言葉の学び
All right. Let's do today's word of the day
Today's word of the day is Kodosu. Yeah, what does it mean?
Kodosu is the verb to kill you'll hear it a lot in anime because people are constantly threatening to kill each other in a lot
Of shows and it's in this one a lot because lots of people want to kill each other in this show, too
Even Takopi was saying Kodosu and then sounds like there's no concept of killing in happy planet
Yeah, although Takopi does seem to understand that it means taking someone's life away
And so if they have concepts of life and what the possibility of life being taken away
Then they potentially understand what it means to kill something. Yeah, like you said not only this anime, but also you hear
Kodosu or Kodosu de yaru
Right a lot on like maybe like action style anime
It might also be worth saying that is you know
The verb form but the character for killing Satsu can also show up in a lot of other words
So like side in English homicide suicide, etc
Parasite marasite the the Satsu part kind of means killing like side
So you'll see it in Jisatsu suicide or Tasatsu or like what else Satsujin murderer?
So it's a frequently used character in lots of compounds around killing
Pay attention to anime you watch and you might hear one or two
Depends on what kind of anime you watch. Totally. All right before we end. Would you like to add anything?
I am really curious to see how this series ends because so far
Yeah
Actually, there's a thing I wanted to add
暴力の連鎖
after episode 5 in particular a thing that really sort of started to a question that grew in me about this anime is is
Everything men's fault because a lot of the series seems to sort of preoccupied with figuring out like why right?
Why is Shizuka so depressed and trying to kill herself and the answer is like well because Marin is bullying her and it's like well
Why is Marina bullying her and the answer is like well, Marin is also being abused by her mother
Like why is Marina's mother abusing her?
Well, it's cuz her dad is like abandoning the family to like go off and be with another woman in this case
Shizuka's mom who works at like a hostess club, right?
Well, why is she's because mom working at a hostess level?
It's cuz her husband like ditched her and like left for somewhere else and then particularly in the episode where that in what?
2022 or something where Azuma
Falls for Shizuka at like first sight and then ditches out on going to dinner with his like ostensible
girlfriend Marina like what the hell dude like that was so uncool and it's not like you've been in touch with Shizuka this whole
time and blah blah blah blah blah like you had no good reason for doing that and so it kind of made me think like
Well, you know, is this like an anime that really is seeking to like blame men for abandoning their families and or sort of like
You know being unreliable. Um, and that's like for sure a widespread social problem in Japan and elsewhere in the world
But you know, it's I I think it's like kind of tricky to sort of figure out like whose fault is this or is this?
Nobody's fault and like everybody even the people who are being abused like it's their responsibility to like try to like get their own lives
In order, you know like by seeking help or is this like really somebody's fault?
And we need to like figure out whose fault it is to make sure that they get punished for like the wrong things that they've
Done and so I think like this anime is asking some interesting questions about that
but so far a lot of the fingers end up pointing back to the absent or
Inconsistent parenting of like the fathers who are absent or unreliable
All right. Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode
リスナーへの感謝
If you liked this week's episode
Please give us good reviews on Spotify and Apple podcast or like and leave a comment on YouTube
Make sure to subscribe and follow to a more tack and 3m attack
It'll keep us making more fun episodes. See you next time for more 2 a.m. Attack
