タコピの最終回の感想
I also had a problem with this, honestly, especially given how much abuse Takopi's suffered over the course of this show.
I don't know, that feels actually like it's perpetuating some of the problems that existed at the very beginning.
Welcome back to 2AM OTTACK! I'm your host Mayu, a born and raised Japanese non-otaku, and...
I'm Sisqó, an American otaku.
In this podcast, we share our reviews of anime and manga through our distinct perspectives with commentary on Japanese culture, history, and language.
Sisqó!
Yep?
We finally watched the last episode of Takopi's original sin!
We did, we got there, we got to the end.
I... I don't know what I was expecting, but I was expecting that.
You were, or you weren't?
I wasn't.
You weren't.
I wasn't.
So, we watched the whole, like, series, and it's done.
And now we are going to talk about what we thought about the series, whole series, and the last episode.
And then, today's word of the day.
Before we start, we'd like to hear from you.
Share your thoughts, ideas, questions, or even suggestions that we should talk about.
Send us a message to the email in the description, or you can use Spotify and the YouTube comments section as well.
We also have two episodes about Takopi's original sin, so check those episodes out if you haven't listened, and come back to this episode.
And probably also watch Takopi's original sin first, unless you're okay with the whole thing getting spoiled.
We're gonna spoil everything.
I don't like it when we say that, but I guess we have to, yeah.
Not everything, but, like, there'll be spoilers.
Yeah.
All right, let's talk about the last episode of Takopi's original sin.
What's your thought?
I think the way I felt it when it was over was, I was okay with where the ending left things, but I didn't really love how they got there.
Does that make sense?
Like, I was okay with all of the events that took place in the ending, and I was okay with, like, the sort of aftermath, like, of where the story wants to say, like, this is what happens after the end of the story.
Like, all of those things were fine for me.
But some of the steps that were taken to arrive at that ending felt like they could have been better to me.
Yeah.
There are definitely, like, memorable scenes for me, which is Shizuka beating up Takopi.
And she was saying, basically, what was I supposed to do when Mama didn't come home?
What am I supposed to do when teacher told me to, you know, call parents, and then I don't have parents at home?
Right.
Lots of questions, right?
Like, she was crying and beating up Takopi at the same time.
Mm-hmm.
But she finally let those thoughts out to Takopi.
Right, right, right.
And Takopi's reaction was like, I don't know.
I don't know, but I'm sorry.
Yeah, I mean, I'm sorry that Takopi couldn't do anything about it, right?
Takopi explained that, I'm sorry that I didn't help you, or I didn't listen to you, or I had no idea how you're feeling, that kind of stuff.
And Shizuka was, you know, like, saying, telling Takopi to shut up.
But, like, clearly she was feeling a little bit better.
Well, I don't know about better, but at least heard, you know?
Yeah.
I think that's the first time that Takopi actually really listens to Shizuka-chan instead of trying to, like, immediately fix her problems.
And that's a really important sort of basic strategy in being a good friend and caring person, is, like, listen.
So that's important.
But I don't know that Shizuka feels better.
I think it's just good that she's able to—I think she learns that voicing her emotions is an important first step in, like, the healing process.
And then Takopi was, like, grabbing, doing the happy—what did he say?
Happy handshake?
Happy handshake.
And then, like, put Takopi's hands around Shizuka's neck.
I guess?
Her neck?
Yeah, her neck.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
That scene was, like, telling me, like, you don't have to—if you know somebody who is struggling or, like, depressed or, you know, in trouble, like, you don't have to give advice.
I think many people try to give advice.
Oh, you should try this.
Right.
But it's not necessarily the best advice.
You can just listen and then understanding.
Don't try to understand or, like, oh, I'm sorry you're feeling this way.
Yeah, I do think that what Takopi does right at the end doesn't immediately try to make it better and instead is, like, I can't really help you other than just listening to you.
But even when you're—I mean, I don't know that I love this message, really, that, like, Takopi just takes that abuse, right, and then is like, but I'll still listen to you, right?
But that ultimately is, like, the right thing for Takopi to do is to listen and not try to offer solutions and instead just sort of be there for Shizuka and not abandon her.
And I think, like, the fact that she's abusing Takopi, like, while Takopi's listening is not great, you know?
タコピとシズカの関係
Shizuka, again, like, repeating the cycle of abuse.
And I mean, like, in a way, Marina is performing the same role for her mom.
She's just listening.
She's not actually doing any—I mean, she can't do anything to try to make it better.
And Marina's mom's not getting any better.
She's just going on being an abuser.
I don't know that I really liked Takopi being willing to, like, just stand to Shizuka's abuse and then have, like, the sort of moral at the end of it be like, yeah, just, like, let her hit out her feelings on you and that'll make things better.
Because that doesn't necessarily make anything better.
Like, I think it's great that Takopi listens and doesn't offer advice or solutions but stays with Shizuka.
But also, like, it's, like, you know, it's at the very end when Shizuka's actually crying and, like, letting her emotions out that it feels like some healing is happening, not at the point where she's, like, mashing on Takopi, being like, you're useless, you're garbage, you're trash.
Like, she both physically and verbally abuses Takopi, which is pretty, like, I don't know.
That was messed up, you know?
I struggled with that.
Like, yes, I understand that she's, like, a victim, too.
She's, like, caught in the cycle of abuse.
But Takopi being a hero by withstanding additional abuse, like, didn't really sit well with me.
Interesting.
Okay, so what about the very ending?
You know, Takopi's disappeared.
Takopi sacrificed life and then went back to the past when Shizuka was slightly happier.
No.
But Takopi uses the remainder of Takopi's happy power, which costs Takopi, like, its life, right, in order to fix the happy camera and go back one more time to the night where Takopi and Shizuka took the picture.
Then Takopi's dead.
And I guess, like, for reasons that are totally not explained other than Takopi isn't there to save Shizuka from Marina's bullying over the course of the next few days, it seemed—and I guess, like, maybe this is what happened in the original timeline, too, right?
Like, we're not really clear, like, where Shizuka went in the original timeline, where Marina got her face all scarred up by her mom, remember?
But in that timeline, Shizuka went somewhere, and we don't know what happened or didn't happen to Chappie.
So in that timeline, Chappie's still alive, which seems to be, like, Shizuka's most important source of support anyway.
And because Takopi doesn't alter that timeline much, it feels like maybe Marina doesn't get Chappie, like, you know, put down, basically.
I also had a problem with this, honestly.
Okay, because, like, this show opens with Shizuka committing suicide, right?
To be like, I'm going to escape all my problems by, like, ending my life.
In a sense, that's what Takopi does at the end.
Takopi basically commits suicide, gives up its life to, like, I mean, I understand here where, like, it's, like, a sort of nobler cause or something, maybe, but gives up its own life again.
And so, like, the happy ending, happy-ish-er, I don't know what ending, is achieved by Takopi dying.
That's kind of problematic for me, especially given how much abuse Takopi's suffered over the course of this show.
That Takopi's, like, solution to everything is like, I'll just die, that'll make things right.
過去を修正するための自己犠牲
I don't know, that feels actually like it's perpetuating some of the problems that existed at the very beginning.
Most suicides don't make anything better.
And I think, in this case, you could argue that, like, Takopi's actually did, because it gave them a chance to fix the past a little bit.
Um, I don't know.
I, like, I thought the show became much more interesting once they couldn't rewind time anymore, because it was like, oh yeah, just like in real life, you have to live with the consequences of your decisions, even though things got, like, very, very, very bad.
And so, I am glad for the happiness of the people involved that they were able to go back in time one last time, but that coming at the expense of Takopi's life to me sent a complicated message about, like, you know, whether the best thing you can do sometimes is die.
Which, like, feels counter to some of what the show was trying to say early on.
I don't know, what did you think about that?
Well, now you mentioned that, like, I feel like, yeah, I agree with you.
Do you think Takopi fixed the problem?
No, I don't think Takopi fixed the problem.
I think Marina and Shizuka fixed the problem by finally talking to each other and trying to understand each other a little bit more.
Except that they didn't really, right?
Or at least the show didn't show.
This is kind of what I mean about, like, I don't really like the way the ending was executed, even if I was okay with the idea that eventually Marina and Shizuka got to be friends.
Like, that doesn't strike me as totally wrong.
タコピの死とキャラクターの関係性
But the reason for their friendship being a sort of inexpressible, you know, half-formed memory of both liking Takopi seemed weird.
And the scene in which, as she's being bullied and beaten up, Marina's eyes, like, fall on a doodle of Takopi in Shizuka's notebook.
And all of a sudden she's like, oh, I guess I don't want to, like, beat you up anymore.
Like, that doesn't make any sense.
The thing that made more sense to me was the moment where Marina, like, expresses how she's actually feeling and being like, it's your fault.
My mom doesn't love my dad any—or, sorry, the other way around, my dad doesn't love my mom anymore.
Her being able to verbalize that felt like the more important breakthrough in that relationship.
And Shizuka doesn't verbalize her feelings to Marina in that particular moment, which is kind of like, what the hell?
Like, how did they get over this if Shizuka never had that breakthrough, even though she did have it with Takopi?
So, like, I don't know.
Takopi dying or not doesn't—I mean, like, I don't think Takopi needed to die, first of all.
I feel like Takopi totally could have been like, I can use my happy power to, like, send us back in time one more time, but then I have to go back to the happy planet and I can never see you again.
And it would have been, like, functionally exactly the same as Takopi dying, except that it didn't need to have, like, a suicide angle to it.
And then, I mean, like, maybe out under the stakes don't feel high enough.
It's not his—you know, Takopi's life or something.
But—and, like, the reconciliation between the two girls felt like it needed a little bit more time to, like, be believable.
And they didn't really give it that.
And the end story with Azuma didn't make any sense.
Like, he just, like, became more popular because he told his kids' classmates that his brother had a PS4 or whatever.
And they were all like, cool, we want to be your friends now.
And he was like, oh, that's nice.
And that was, like, it for his story.
Like, come on.
So, um, so there were some pieces that, like, didn't really make a lot of sense to me.
But I think, like, them becoming friends, I liked.
And them making the breakthrough of being able to say how they actually feel and understand each other better, all that felt really good.
That really felt like the right end.
But some of the other stuff, I was kind of like, I don't know.
So I still think it was a great show.
It had a lot of really good things to say about suffering and abuse and the cycles of abuse that occur and why people hurt each other.
And I think it had great things to say about how you can help someone who's in a really dark place get better.
But, um, but it wasn't perfect.
言葉の意味とその解釈
All right, let's do today's word of the day.
Otaku, word of the day.
Today's word of the day is...
Genzai.
Genzai.
I can't believe we haven't done this yet.
I feel like we did it in Japanese, right?
So genzai is a very literal translation of original sin.
Gen meaning original, and zai meaning, or tsumi meaning sin.
Now, I'm sort of curious about the idea of tsumi.
Tsumi also means crime, right?
So being that until Christianity came around, there probably wasn't really a concept of quote-unquote sin in Japanese culture.
Can you call it Takopi's original crime?
Is that an equally valid translation?
Tsumi sounds more like...
I think it's okay, but like genzai sounds more, I don't know, sounds more serious.
Than?
Than tsumi.
Tsumi could be a small thing, like it could be very, very small.
Sure, like stealing food.
Very big, yeah.
Right.
But genzai sounds like a really bad one.
It sounds like it has deeper meaning.
What is the crime or sin that Takopi committed?
Because it says original.
Right, and moreover, in Christian theology, original sin isn't a thing anyone commits.
It's something you're born with because Adam and Eve ate the apple.
Right, but I'm not sure if non-Christian Japanese people think through that.
Oh, for sure they don't, yeah.
In the context of this anime, it probably doesn't mean that the people of Happy Planet committed some sin against God in their deep past that imbued them all with original sin.
It's probably more like...
I mean, yeah, so now that we've seen the whole thing, is Takopi's original sin going back in time against the rules of his planet in order to kill Shizuka?
Or is it not understanding the people he was trying to help, or it was trying to help?
Or is it killing Marina?
What's the original sin?
Well, on 3AM Attack YouTube, somebody commented, it is right.
I was mentioning, to me, as a non-Christian person, it looks like, oh, okay, so the original sin here means Takopi killing Marina.
And somebody commented that's right here, and there's no meaning of Christianity or other meanings.
タコピーの罪と解放
Then why not just say Takopi no Tsumi?
Well, you gotta ask the author.
That's not big enough, though?
Yeah, Genzai sounds deeper and more serious.
Because I don't know that I would see it that way.
Obviously, killing Marina's bad, but that episode's titled Takopi's Salvation.
And the original sin episode, I think actually the original sin seems to be when he gives Marina the friendship thing without explaining how to use it or watching her actually use it.
Because she ends up using it to kill herself rather than to do something productive.
But he breaks all of the rules of Happy Planet.
He doesn't follow any of them, right?
I guess I keep calling Takopi he, but Takopi doesn't follow any of the rules of Happy Planet.
And that seems to be, in my opinion, the original sin here is Takopi's not very good at following directions.
And I think there's also a way to interpret it as Takopi's original sin is not being able to understand others.
In which case, the moment at the end when he finally listens to Shizuka-chan and is like, I finally get it.
I hear you.
I don't know what to do to solve your problems, but I can actually understand them finally.
Seems to be the real moment where Takopi is more saved and able to finally make people happy a little bit.
I'm trying to think about whether Jesus is really good at listening to people's problems.
Probably.
I mean, I'm sure that Jesus as God or Jesus in heaven is really good at that.
But on earth, was Jesus really a skillsy kind of dude who just listened to everyone's problems?
No, Jesus fixed people's problems.
Jesus was like, you don't have enough wine at the feast?
Now you do, right?
There's not enough food to feed everybody?
Check me out, I can work miracles.
Oh, you're dead, Lazarus?
Boom, now you're alive.
He wasn't like, oh yeah, I get it.
You guys are really sad that your family member is dead.
He was like, I can literally fix that.
So again, I don't think there's any connection to Takopi here really.
But I think that's an interesting question.
Was Jesus as a living person someone who just listened or someone who worked miracles to fix stuff?
And I guess that you could say the same thing now, right?
Does God in heaven just listen to our prayers and be like, I can't actually do anything to help you, but I'm here to talk.
I'm here to listen if you're ready to talk.
Or do we expect that God will fix things for us and make us happy by granting our wishes and prayers?
Okay.
All right.
Deep thoughts.
Anything else you'd like to add before we end?
他の漫画との比較
Do you want to mention about the other manga?
Sure, I'll plug the other manga one more time.
So in the Shonen Jump app, I read the entirety of this manga author's next work, which is I think called the Ichinose family's deadly sins.
And like, there's a whole thing about what a deadly versus non-deadly sin is in Catholic theology also, but we're not getting into that.
That one is similarly very complicated timeline wise.
It's hard to tell what's real and what's not real and what's really happening and what happened before and what's just a memory or what's a dream, etc.
And so it has a little bit too much of that in it for me.
I would like for it to have been a little bit more linear in terms of what it was trying to say, but it explores a lot of the same themes of lack of self-confidence, bullying, you know, people trying to solve things for other people without really talking through with them.
It's got a little bit more old people problems in it because there are some older characters who are suffering from dementia and, you know, some other problems, but it's still good.
I feel like it's got sort of the same strengths and the same flaws as this one does, actually.
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