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Welcome to Kevin's in this room podcast!
Hey! Hello!
Okay, we are here with Tim again from Amazon Music.
Hello again! Thank you!
Is it fair to say that you are a curator for K-pop?
Is that like... does that like...
Because you said on your first introduction you were like
not only K-pop but other genres, right?
Yes.
How big is K-pop in terms of percentage wise?
Yeah, I would say K-pop is probably almost like 60%
and the other 40% is spent on other international genres.
But we also leverage a lot of the contents from the US side
for those pop, R&B, and hip-hop genres.
So what I have to do for those genres is
basically localize the contents for our Japanese audience.
Right, right, right.
But K-pop is basically created from zero, right?
From ground here in Japan so I have to spend more time on that.
Got it.
So you're comfortable being introduced as the K-pop guy for Amazon Music?
Sure, I want to be the K-pop guy.
Right?
Alright, so let's talk about new artists on K-pop, right?
You always love new groups.
Yeah, right?
Yeah, I don't know, you know Mi-ha? I'm a Mi-ha.
Mi-ha?
Whatever is on the top charts, I tend to love.
Oh, no. I mean, I totally understand. I also love those.
Yeah.
But yeah, I mean, a lot of the new K-pop groups
they already have a lot of momentum before their debut.
Okay.
Right?
And that could be because they are members from an audition program, for example.
Right, right, right.
A good example is Kepler, right? They're from Girls Planet.
Uh-huh.
And basically the members are chosen from the audition program and then they debut.
So audience from the audition program are automatically their fans.
Yeah.
Right, right, right.
So even before their official debut they already have a fan base.
True.
And their social power.
Yeah.
They already have a huge following.
Yeah.
And I think that's one of the strengths about K-pop is before they even come out to the world,
people already know them.
Right.
People already want to support them.
Yes.
Watching how they grow and how they train, right, through those audition programs.
Yeah.
There are other groups like that too, like ENHYPEN, you know.
Uh-huh.
I mean, they made their debut a while ago.
Yeah.
But they're also from an audition program.
IZ*ONE.
IZ*ONE, there you go.
Yeah.
Yeah.
A lot of other groups are examples.
Yeah.
Well, that's a good strategy.
Uh-huh.
I know.
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That is a good strategy.
Yeah.
And yeah, I mean, we touched on IZ*ONE a little bit last time.
But yeah, they're members from IZ*ONE.
And then a newer group that's already announced called Le Seraphine.
Ah, yeah.
Miwa...
What was it?
Miwawaki...
Sakura-chan.
Yeah.
Yeah.
She's a former member of IZ*ONE.
Yes.
Okay.
She's Japanese.
She's Japanese, yes.
Former AKB, right?
Yes.
Yeah, you're right.
Okay.
Yeah, she went from AKB to IZ*ONE to now a new group.
Okay.
Yes.
And then another hype group, right?
So BTS is from Hybe.
So the same agency.
Same jimusho.
Exactly.
So, you know, a lot of attention.
Yeah.
A lot of people are kind of excited to see how they would make their debut and then like
how their song is like, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I'm excited about that, too, honestly.
Yeah.
Another thing I feel like what's special about K-pop is that like a lot of the songs changes
genres during like in the midst of a song.
Yes.
For example, like "ESPA's" one of the songs of "ESPA's" like in the middle it goes from
like a like a pop to like an R&B kind of vibe.
Yes.
And then goes back to pop.
Oh.
Or like...
You are right on point.
Yeah.
So there's a lot of genre fusion within a song, within a K-pop song, right?
So there's of course that K-pop sound that they established, but they also have inspiration
from pop, from R&B, like you said, and also hip-hop, right?
A lot of trap sounds are incorporated in the K-pop songs today.
And "ESPA" is a good example.
And also another new group called "NMIX."
Yeah.
Their debut song was also like that, right?
They had different phases within the song itself.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yes.
And one thing they do really well is they keep the listener really engaged throughout
the song.
There's not a lot of repetition.
And even if it does, it always gives you like a different feel to it.
Right, right, right, right.
With my like the chords maybe.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Exactly.
And maybe different member singing, different ways of harmonizing, right?
So they always keep it super fresh throughout the entire song.
So you want to listen to it again.
Right, right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So unexpected.
Yeah.
When you hit that genre twisting moment, it's something that you can never experience in
other genres of music.
Oh, really?
It's like, "Whoa!
I did not see that coming."
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Wow.
It's like drastically, like suddenly and completely.
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Yes.
Wow.
Yes.
And I mean, another thing that's strong about K-pop is how flexible they are with languages.
Right?
So, I mean, obviously the first language for them is Korean, but they also release a lot
of songs in Japanese, for example, for their Japanese fans.
Right?
Right.
BTS made a good example with "Dynamite," "Butter," and "Mission to Dance."
All English tracks, right?
And now more and more groups are doing all English tracks for the international audience.
So I'm really, really just impressed by how they adapt to the industry, and they really
get what the fans want from them.
They provide, and they listen to what their fans want, which is, yeah, no, true.
Incredible.
I want to get into a little bit of specifics of...
All right.
Okay.
For example, "N-Mix."
Uh-oh.
Uh-oh.
That's what the title is.
I've never understood, I've never got how to actually pronounce the title.
No, same.
It's O period O.
That's the O period O.
O period O.
Is it uh-oh?
I'm thinking it's uh-oh.
Okay.
I think it's uh-oh, too.
That's how it's O-O.
You're thinking like uh-oh.
Yeah, like uh-oh.
Like, uh-oh, oops, oops.
I don't know.
Because in the song, they're saying uh-oh, uh-oh.
Yes, they are.
But about that song.
Would you say that that song had an irregular debut?
Irregular debut.
Irregular debut.
I don't know if...
What's that?
Because like at first, I saw a lot of comments saying that this music is kind of hard to
understand.
Like it's the messaging is kind of confusing.
I don't know what the song is trying to say.
So there was kind of a lot of that message.
But as time went on, so many people were like, "Oh, it's time to really get the music now.
So like really like it."
I kind of had like a similar experience.
When I first heard it, like my brain couldn't catch up.
Like, okay, what is happening?
Why is that?
The sounds really complex?
I don't know.
Yeah, there are just different aspects to the song and there are different sections
to the song that are really different from each other.
I don't think our ears are familiar with those kinds of songs yet.
Maybe that's why it feels very foreign to us when we first hear it.
And I also hear a lot of comments saying, you know, having the same thoughts.
But I feel like maybe more and more K-pop groups would start doing that to show kind
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of like the different sides of the group.
They have this like cool side, but they also can do this and they also can do that.
And I think another aspect to consider regarding K-pop is not only about the sound, but also
the visual.
Right?
So for music video, when you have like this kind of different sections, they change their
visual setting completely.
Yeah, the whole world.
Exactly.
So it's like, wow, a fresh scene, a fresh cut.
Yeah, that's true.
I think they're just experimenting with a lot of the fresh stuff.
And I think it's important to introduce these kind of new ideas to listeners gradually too.
So like music is always evolving.
So maybe by next time, I mean next year, this time you'll be like, oh, I love that.
I love the different sections.
And yeah, it would be more familiar, I think.
Another thing that I thought was that, um, wait, accidentally knocked it down.
Was that several years ago, I feel like a K-pop group, like let's say a girl's group,
was either very kakkoi or very cute.
Sure.
Like for example, like Shoujo Jidai-ji, that's like in the very cute kind of zone.
You know what that is, right?
Yeah.
Shoujo Jidai-ji.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Whereas like another, let's say like at 21.
Okay.
Right?
Was like more kakkoi, really kakkoi kind of girl's group.
But now I feel like it's a lot of groups like in the middle.
Yes.
Like for example, like VIVIZ?
Like V-I-V-I-Z?
Yes.
VIVIZ.
VIVIZ?
Yeah.
Or like what?
Or, um, WADADA?
WADADA, Kepler.
Kepler.
Yeah.
Like there's a lot, it's mixed.
Yeah.
And it's like, is that a trend, do you think?
No, I totally think that is, again, another characteristic about K-pop groups because
they have a lot of different members, right?
And different members have different personalities too.
And they really kind of focus on those personalities and not trying to basically blend those personalities
with each other.
But instead, they want to show the differences, right?
The individuality.
That is definitely a trend, right?
Right.
A difference that we see.
Okay.
Exactly.
So I mean, that's why you have different oshi, right?
Different types of members.
Because maybe from this group, you like this member's personality more.
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But then maybe a different group, you like this person's personality more.
So I feel like although they're a group, right, but within the group, they have a lot of different
aspects that they can show the audience.
That's also a fresh experience.
Right?
Oh my god.
So they're blending that differences and kind of finding that harmony, the balance, right?
So this is so interesting.
Yeah, right?
I have another question I want to ask you.
You're not going to understand this.
This is too like maniacal.
Right now I'm really into STAYC.
Alright, STAYC.
I think STAYC isn't coming from like a major label brands like SM or like JYP or something
like that.
I'm really fascinated by the exposure that they're getting, you know, taking account
that they're coming from such a, you know, like a not major labels.
What do you think about that?
Like, why do you think they're succeeding so much?
Any thoughts on that?
Sure, sure, sure.
I mean, I feel like not just for K-pop, but like music industry in general.
Of course, the legacy of major labels, they have their power, right, to promote their
artists.
But I feel like nowadays with, again, music streaming services, or online platforms, digital
platforms, it's easier for those contents to be found.
Easier than ever, right?
So even if you don't have that kind of like big support behind your back, you still have
the chance to reach different audiences through the different platforms.
And I think K-pop is doing that really well as well.
Socials, music, music streaming, online video platforms, and they basically want to get
exposure everywhere.
Whether it's on like, yeah, TV, or even like radio, I guess, is still relevant.
And I think, well, I don't know exactly the case with Stacey, but they definitely made
a big name right from their debut.
And I think there's a lot of planning, again, before their debut.
And so once that release came out, it was like everything came together, and their exposure
just went at the same time, right?
Through different channels.
So it's like everywhere you go, you kind of see their name, you kind of see their content.
Planning as in like what?
Like for example?
Well, how they want to present these contents to the fans, right?
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Through what channels and what kind of content?
And when?
I think another really clever thing they do is they tease the fans just enough so they
stay interested over that course of the whole debut, the whole release, right?
So even before the release, fans are already waiting.
They're like always on their phones, on the channels to see when the contents will come
out.
And they finally release, say, their artist photo, their press shot, or a teaser video
of their music video.
It's like five seconds of the video.
Spoiler, right?
But people love it.
People just want to see even just a portion of the video.
It's like, "Ah, I can't wait for this to come out."
I think that's another thing they really do well.
That's what they do.
They make a commercial for a music video, like 10 second music video, like a commercial
or something like that.
That's a K-pop thing, definitely.
Yeah, for sure.
And they give you enough content and enough information for you to want to share with
other people too.
So it's that chain reaction.
Of course, the agency is doing a lot to put the contents out there, but really it's up
to the fans or the users to then amplify it even more to different audiences.
I have so many other questions, but the time is kind of...
One last question.
Okay, let's do it.
This is kind of a difficult question, I feel like.
A deeper difficult question.
You mentioned that since there's internet, social media now has the power to spread music.
If the music's good, the power of big agency doesn't have...
It's not that important, because the YouTubes and the Spotifys and the Amazon Musics of
the world does the job.
Those platforms now carry the information to the end users directly.
So you can interpret that as the middleman is being eliminated, right?
As a curator perspective, point of view, isn't that a difficult situation to be in?
Sure, sure.
No, that's a good question.
There's a balance, I think.
We want to engage these labels and agencies so we can collaborate with the artists better.
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I think, of course, the agencies know their artists the best, and they decide how their
artists want to be presented.
So as a curator at Amazon Music, I want to have that close communication with those managers,
and I want to hear what they want.
They're also my customer, right?
It's not just the end user.
They're also my customer, so I want to hear their voice.
I want to hear what they want, what kind of support they want, and how we can make that
possible through Amazon Music.
And then, finding the balance of that and also what our end customer wants, our Amazon
Music users.
So it's, yeah.
The harmony between the two.
It's true.
From the end user, we don't know what the jimushos have in mind.
The curator can only connect us with that.
Sure, sure.
Honestly, as a user or as a listener, you don't really want to think that much about a piece
of music, right?
You just want to enjoy the context.
Yeah, true.
I just want to enjoy the moment, right.
Exactly.
So we'll do the job for you.
That's basically what it is.
All right.
Thank you so much, Tim, for being here.
Thank you.
It's an honor.
It's really, really.
All right.
Okay.
Thanks for listening, guys.
Thank you.
Bye.
