ノミュニケーションの概念
Okay, welcome to Jay and Eri Podcast. I'm Jay. I'm Eri.
I have a question. Okay. Do you know the word?
Nomunication
Nomunication like in terms of like is it like a Japanese common phrase common word?
Yeah, I guess when you think like nomunication you're like nomu as in drink and
communication so like
Communicating while drinking?
How did you know?
That's true. Yes
Nomunication like drink and communicate. Okay. All right, and
These days. Yeah, I
Feel like that word. Mm-hmm. So makes sense
and
useful
In what way? What do you mean?
It's so useful and I
Think we need it
those
Opportunity. Oh, I see what you mean. Um
Like would this be like
Are you referring to how like in Japanese culture you have like nomikai like that would be considered nomunication, right? Yes
so do you feel like nomikais are
important for like
Important and I think it's
Necessary
Necessary, but don't you think like a lot of people actually don't want to do like I've always heard that like
Japanese people or like in terms of work, but they don't want to go to nomikais. They feel forced to go
Especially young generation. Yes, especially the young generation
So do you feel like it is getting like less and less?
Common after COVID especially after COVID. Yes
But I think yeah that good things yeah young generation can say no, I don't want to go or I have some
frown
So I can't go. How was it? And is it which is good, which is good, which is good, right?
But before you wouldn't be able to do that. You'd be like kind of almost forced to go, right?
In Heisei era. Yes. Yeah. Hey, I see like Heisei Showa like any time before that
I see so now a days so you don't have to go
マスクを脱ぐ文化
But I recommend. Yeah you to go
Like at least sometimes right?
Sometime yeah, like you don't have to go all the time, but sometimes yeah, it's a good idea. Yeah, like I
would say that it's
It would be important to go. Yeah, the point is
communication at
Drink like while drinking. Yeah. Yes. Well you do like I think
one thing that I always known is that I
Enjoy talking with people while drinking because you get
You kind of see their true self when they're drinking
Yes, because as they keep drinking their mask kind of they take off their mask more and more mask
Yeah, yes, because everybody has a mask. Yes. Everyone has a mask
and Japanese people
Japanese people would have more of a mask than for I think foreigners are easier to like take off to tell like yeah
They'll take off their mask a lot easier
but with Japanese people I feel like
They are only comfortable taking off their mask while drinking. Hmm. Is that true?
Like do you think that's a true statement? That's so true. That's so true
Yeah, right like even me I like talking to other people yeah, but even me yeah, I
need
Some some yeah, I'm good amount of alcohol. Yeah to take off my mask. Yeah, I agree. I agree like
Yeah, but you can say the same things in
ビジネスにおける飲み会の意義
Western culture
Yeah, like of course
When I was working when I was working in my job back in Canada
You know
people we would all get together and you know go to the bar or
like have some sort of like drinking party and
you kind of get a sense of
Like the sense of the people you work with
Which then makes your relationship with them at work a little better
Hmm because you you start to see them as people rather than just co-workers
But this can also be like a good thing and a bad thing
Because there is also the thing you have to watch out for that
Once people get comfortable with you, they will try to take advantage of you
Yeah, so it's like it's it's good in some ways but bad in other ways
It's good in some ways but bad in other ways
and
I think like
the reason why
they were so effective or they still are effective in a professional setting is because a
Lot of the times you will have like and I'm sure in different industries. It's different
But like let's say you are working for a company and you are taking
You're taking out a customer
You know, you're trying to do business with a customer and you're taking them out to like
You know for dinner or for drinks, you know to get them
comfortable with you and
To get them to see you as more than just a person to do business with
They will start to go. Okay. Yeah. No, I really like this person. He's really fun. I want to do business with this person
It's it's like a sense of networking, right?
And
Yeah, like I I think it's important I think as a person who does it you have to be careful of a lot of course
Yeah
you do have to be careful, especially with people taking advantage of you or
getting involved with people like there's probably a lot of
like
there's probably a lot of times where
people would get involved with
Like customers or with co-workers
you know
in a different setting and
those are the kind of things that are like probably like more of the negative parts of doing business, but I think
Generally, it's a good thing
Like it's a net positive
Because you feel different you feel different you feel more connected with the people and then you want to
They want to do more for you and you want to do more for them because you're in that kind of you've broken a barrier
Right, we're like we've seen each other drunk
You've told me stuff. I've told you stuff and then now we're at this level above just
Just being customer and it's like a level beyond that
So now I want to do more for you and you want to do more for me
Right because you hit that kind of level yeah, it's important. I still think it's important. I I'm not sure I see it much
these days like I think it's
It's kind of disappeared
Because even like when I think about like going to work
It it seems forced or
The company will try to
You know make these plans, but they make these plans without drinking
日本の飲み文化とマスク
You want like I
Never wanna go right. Nobody wants to go
Nobody wants to go. Nobody wants to go and it's really funny because like they they
they're starting to realize this like
They're like the the administration is more of like they're like non drinkers
Right, so they want to do these things without drinking. They just go coffee. Exactly
But but the majority of the workforce in the company
They're all drinkers. Yeah, so, of course, of course, of course, you don't have to drink first, right?
You don't have to drink but we want to fucking drink
Yeah, exactly like we like
Don't force. Yeah, so a lot of the times like they don't really work because they don't realize that
In order for people to feel comfortable you have to let them
Take off their mask and I don't
Especially the people who can't talk. Well, yeah
And if you can drink
Something drink some alcohol and take off your mask. Yeah. Yeah, exactly like it's just like
you know when we first met our really good friends, you know, like
you know, I was able to like
Give them a space to like where they can take off that mask and then they're like they've become like some
Do I have a map? I don't know. Do you do you see me with a mask? No
You can talk to anybody
Yeah
Yeah, I guess that's another question do you have a mask I
Don't think I do. No, you don't I don't think I do. Oh, I have like both like you can be
Yeah, I can be both I can I can be both for sure
But yeah, like
Japan in Japan you have to have a mask. I think you do have to have a mask
But
One of the tips I have for like foreigners navigating like working in Japan is to you have that mask but
You make it
like I'll try to explain this but
You show people that you have a mask on so they people know you have a map and you you admit like yeah
This is me in a professional setting. Mm-hmm. This is me. I
Have this mask on because this is me in a professional setting and you know that this is a mask
but
they will see the other side of you as well going like so they feel more comfortable because
You are showing that you are wearing this because of this situation
So you're not afraid of people going like oh
Is he really like this or is he not like this, right?
It's more of like as a foreigner just show people this is how you are in this setting
This is how you are in this setting and this is how you are in this setting and so people can understand you a lot
Better because they know oh
It's because of dip like they act differently based on the situation based on the the kind of
So they they kind of give you a little bit more of a trust because they know that when you're a professional
You are professional
But if they're if they're like more of like a personal setting they know that you can act in a personal setting as well
That doesn't mean that you know what I mean?
If they want to tell you something personally
They know that you can take off the professional mask in order to talk to them personally
Right. I understand. Yeah. Yeah, I
Hope the listeners understand that I don't even know if I understand that
You don't understand. I do I do what I'm saying is like sometimes when I try to explain
Something like this. It's a little difficult
Yeah, so you can use no communication right now
Hmm
Yeah, I think it's it. I think it's important like even right now like you and me we're talking and what are we doing?
We're having a little bit of a drink while we're talking
飲みコミュニケーションの重要性
You got to talk
Yeah a little bit
But yeah, no me can't you I like that word
So no move Japanese and communication
Drinking communication, so drinking communication is it communication through drinking? Yeah communication through drinking. Yeah
I like that
That's a good one
Okay, so I have a question for you though. Yes, okay, so
I know that a lot of foreigners will know this but Japanese people don't realize it. Maybe I don't know you tell me
But we have this thing
where
When we're on the train, yeah, we noticed
ガイジンシートの現象
Or we noticed that a lot of the times Japanese people will refuse to sit next to foreigners
And so we have a name for it. It's called the gaijin seat. That's what it's called
right, so like literally that were the
Foreigners living in Japan. Yeah, or just tourists in general. I'm not sure. Oh, I haven't been a tourist in a long time
So, um, I don't know if tourists know it, but but you hear it on tik-tok. You see it on tik-tok
You see it on it got easy. Yeah, people talk about it. We'll talk about it
so I want to ask you as a Japanese person like what goes through your mind when you get into a train and
You see the seats
like
What is your opinion?
Because a lot I'll give you an example. I'll be sitting down. Sure
I'll be sitting down at the kind of like the the front or the back of the train and it's usually like
Four-seat and I'll sit there and I'll sit in one place and I'll I'll be sitting there like, you know
like no legs closed bag on my on my on my
On my lap, you know sitting like how I'm supposed to be sitting, you know
I'm not trying to take up too much room because remember last time I told you we have to try and understand like spatial awareness
And I'll sit there but then what will happen is that
One Japanese and the other side there will be nobody. So what happened is that one person will come on the train and
They'll sit in that spot, which is understand like it. Obviously I would do the same thing
I would get on and be like, okay, I see one person there
I'll go to the other one
Yeah, right and then slowly over time the people will come on and there'll be two
There'll be a Japanese person on that side and then be me on this side. They'll go and sit there
now
But like diagonally, so you'll have one person next to the aisle next to the window and then the other person like aisle
電車での座席選び
Side right and then another person will come on now me. I would think oh, they're gonna go aisle side diagonal for me
No, they go and sit next to one of the other two
on that side and then that side will completely fill up before
Other people start to sit down next to me, right?
So I'm wondering
What is that reason?
Like what if what goes through? Okay situation. Yeah, you are
facing on
Directions facing the direction of the train. Yeah, so the train is going this way. I'm back. I have the window next to me
Yeah, and I'm sitting in a corner
There's a seat next to me and then two seats in front of me
If it was me, yeah, I just sit
Opposites diagonal right diagonal of me. So I'm sitting here. You would sit there, right? That's what I mean. So
What I'm trying to say it depends
Those two people
women
Yeah, so I assume and that's the thing
I'll assume that like women and I always know this that when I get on a train
And I do this when I do this when I get on a train and I see like two empty seats
There's a woman at the window side and then on the other side, there's a man
I will choose to sit next to the guy because I don't want to feel make the woman feel uncomfortable
I don't want her to make so I usually sit next to the dudes
Unless like there's no seats and there's one seat with a woman and I'll sit there
But usually I the way I choose a seat is I'll get on and I'll go
Okay, I'll try and sit next to men first because I don't want to make females
I do that you think about female. Yeah, of course as a guy. I think a lot of us do that
That's so nice. Yeah, we don't especially as a foreigner. We don't want to
make women feel
Like uncomfortable
I would not want to sit next to a woman because I feel kind of uncomfortable doing that. Yeah, so you feel
Yeah, yeah
But this is not a sense that like the people aren't saying like getting on it's like either a guy or a girl
Right, if it's a woman, I understand like if it was like it was like a woman coming on and then there's like a woman
Here woman here. I don't understand women women going there
I understand that but I'm talking about like a mix like so a guy would come on go sit there or another guy will come
On go sit there and be like a mix
But then then only after that side gets full will somebody come on and sit next to me
I don't mind
I go
To you right if there's all
Man right, right. I see. Oh, you'll go next to me. Okay, so next here's another here's another question
Does somebody the way somebody looks does it?
Factor in so I'll give you an example
What if I was somebody who's wearing a nice suit and I'm sitting in the same place
Do you think that people will come on and sit next or near me if I'm wearing a nice suit?
What do you think maybe?
Like in your opinion, what would you do? I think I play for
the guy or people who is wearing
外国人の座り方の気遣い
Nice nice clothes or official clothes, right? I see. So I
Just not dirt. So the guys in seat sense would probably be
It could also mean like the way people are dressed kind of factor into the
The decision of a Japanese person sitting where they're sitting but
I'm saying because you said you sit nicely. Yeah, and don't leave your back on me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah
I don't need the case
That's the only case you care about really? No, I made that decision. Oh
Sitting nicely not because of what I'm wearing. No, no. No, I see. I see. I see. So if Japanese or any guy
Sitting like like oh, right. Oh, yeah
Even I wouldn't sit
It doesn't matter you are a guy. Yeah, but I'm just talking about like sitting the way they're sitting like sitting nicely
Okay
Yeah, it's it's one of the things that pop up and I think it depends on like the area as well as like how busy
Something is yeah
But yeah, generally like as a rule and
This is for anybody who's visiting Japan or living in Japan as a foreigner
generally, what I would do is like when I get on the train I try and
Like if it's a four-person area, yeah, I try to sit diagonal from the person that's already sitting there
and then from then on I just decide whether if it's like male or female because I
Want to be respectful and I don't want to sit next to like a female on the train because I
would I
Feel like I would make them feel uncomfortable
You know what? I mean? Yeah
I know that they wouldn't feel uncomfortable if it was full and they I come on and I sit next to them
They wouldn't feel because it really okay
But it would kind of feel weird if you get onto a train and there's all these seats
But you decide to go sit next to a girl right that like they understand
What Japanese people wouldn't be stupid about that. They would understand right?
And they would feel weird about that. I think yeah, I think the same way to Japanese people. Yeah
Yeah, exactly. There's more seat. Why did you choose this? Yeah
Yeah, and you also said you always try to
Yes, yes when I when I'm on a train and
honestly, I I
Hope every guy does this because you don't want to get in trouble or any sort of way
When it's really full either have your phone like have your hand on your phone like above your chest
Like like I like I would hold it like this and then have one hand on like one of the rings
Because you want to have your hands visible because you don't know how anybody reacts
You know from anything. Yeah, right like what is that called in Japanese?
Yeah, come right. Yeah, exactly those things those kind of like
accusations terrified
right, cuz I always see the stories about it and then but then I always hear stories about like
I've seen some stories about like there's like a scam
Like cheek on scam where a girl will accuse somebody of yes. Yes to get money
and so in the
公共の場の振る舞いと感情
Boyfriend say oh, he's the one exactly. Yeah, so those things always scare me. So I'm always like
Like hold on like my head
Yep. Yep. Yep, exactly exactly
So like a lot of the times I'll hold my phone like this
Like if I don't have access to a ring, I'll like hold my phone with two hands like to my chest
You know in order to like, you know, I don't want people to be like, I'm not doing what are you talking about?
like
Did you do the same in Canada? No, we don't think about these kind of things cuz we don't
It's a it's definitely a Japanese thing like it's it's a it's obviously a problem that Japan has
And that's why you have a word for it, we don't have
We don't have like we have, you know
sexual harassment, right?
and on a train or a bus like I haven't been back at home in a long time, but I
Those things never pop into our minds or in my mind like I don't but also I lived in a place where like
Like I'm not sure like it doesn't get as busy as it does in
In Japan like trains get really really busy. Oh
Like I can't remember if like the subways I guess like subways during rush hour might
Be busy might become busy, but I don't really remember it getting as busy as it does here in Japan, right?
Yeah
But hey, I'm not yeah. Yeah
Yeah, but like even as it like even as a man like another thing that I do and I
another thing that I do is
Let's say like it's like a dark road or like it's at night
and
I'm I see a woman walking and I'm behind the woman. I feel really bad for her
Because like a woman's walking and there's a guy behind them. I can imagine like what is this guy gonna do, right?
So what I do is I cross the street. I
Cross to the other side. I make sure I cross to the other side because I don't want them to feel
Like me. Yeah, cuz even I'm not gonna lie to you. It's not just women that feel that way
it's meant to like if I see a guy walking behind me, I'm like
Yo, I'm
You're gonna pull up on me or something like
Like I feel I feel worried too. It's not just females. I feel everywhere. Yeah
In anywhere like I don't like it when people are like really close by so like I'll even feel that way
So if I feel that way I can imagine a woman at 9 p.m. 10 p.m
At night with a guy walking behind them would probably feel a little bit scared
Right, so I would have crossed the street. Oh, thank you. Yeah. No, thank you
I expect everybody to do that like guys just do that because
number one
they don't know you and
they'll feel
Like they'll feel worried about themselves. So if you if you do that, you'll feel more
You'll show them that like oh, wow
No, that guy was actually a really nice guy for doing that like they will I think women will catch that
I think you do but I'm sure many guys think why it's my way
They do
Yeah, like guys will feel that way
but I think it's because I think the thing is like you have to as a guy you have to kind of
女性への配慮
you have to
Understand how it must feel for other people
You know you have to and like it's just that's life like shogunite like guys are always gonna feel
Like women are always gonna be women are always gonna feel threatened by men, you know, and so you have to kind of
Lower that threat and the way you can do that
It's like if there's a woman in front of you and she's walking to the station or something like that and it's dark
And it's just you and her
Go to the other side of the road. Don't chase and like go over. Yeah, there's there's always a few things you can do
Like imagine you're thinking. Okay. Well this woman she probably would feel more like better if I was in front of her
So if you get faster, she's gonna get faster
The only thing you can do exactly the only thing you can do is go to the other side of the road
That's the only way you can feel like less threatening. Don't try to
Exactly for don't try to go forward because that's gonna make her feel
And like don't stop and wait for her to go ahead cuz that even worse
You imagine I'm waiting for her to go ahead more
But then her she's just kind of looking at you like why is he stopping right?
Yeah, exactly exactly
Yeah, I would recommend all guys do that
Yeah in any country in any country just go to the other side of the street
Yeah
It's why I assume it's not easy for women like that must be terrifying for you
Like I know it's terrifying for me if I'm walking and there's a dude behind me. I don't know what that person is gonna do
Even I'm terrified like other men are terrified of other men
So imagine how women feel right?
Yeah, yeah, I
Appreciate yeah, the guy like you
Yeah, I think I think those are kind of things that if you do those things you'll feel you will
Make people in Japan, especially like females in Japan, especially feel more comfortable with you, right?
So she's a foreigner because a lot of Japanese people feel like
Foreigners because they're taller. Yeah taller and
Like they they they look bigger so they might be more intimidating. So yeah, I agree
ポッドキャストの目的
Yeah, you know. Oh, yeah, that's I guess that's our that's our conversation. That was a good one. That was a good one
Yeah, I hope I hope these
Tips or like these kind of this kind of a revelation really helps a lot of people when they're
choosing about
You know visiting Japan or moving to Japan. I'm I think this podcast would probably be more helpful towards like foreigners
Yeah, but yeah
You can ask me anytime
Like about Japan. Yeah
Living in Japan as foreigners. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly
Okay. All right. Thank you for listening. Yeah. Thanks for listening everybody
Have a good day. See you next time. See you next time. Bye
