漫画家の定義の違い
Konnichiwa! I'm your host Mayu for 2AM OTTACK! In this podcast, we talk all about anime,
manga, movies, music, and history through our distinct perspectives as a born and raised
Japanese non-otaku, me, and an American anime fan. That's me. I'm Cisco. I've been an anime
fan since I was 11, and I'm also fluent in Japanese. Surprise. Yes, he's really fluent.
Let's get started. This is our second episode for 2AM OTTACK! Today, we would like to talk about
what we talked about in another podcast with our manga artist friend. We talked about how she
doesn't like to be categorized as a manga artist. Is this the right English?
I guess so. I mean, I don't think it's so much that she doesn't like to be categorized,
but that she feels uncomfortable being called a manga artist.
Thank you. Yes, that's exactly right.
I think her perspective was that because she doesn't earn enough money from drawing manga
to sustain herself with that as her main job, she doesn't deserve to be called a manga artist.
And so we talked a little bit about how that's pretty... Well, I guess nobody really calls
themselves a manga artist in America unless they draw specifically manga and not just comics,
which is maybe more common as a job in America. But if you're self-publishing a webtoon,
you're probably like, I'm a manga artist, regardless of how successful you are.
And that in America, people will often identify their job as whatever their dream job is,
if they're working on it at all, with no regards to how much money they're currently making
doing it. And so we were sharing the perspective that in America, she's been published in actual
manga compilations and stuff that in America, we would definitely call her a manga artist.
It might be her side hustle right now as opposed to her main gig, but the fact that she's had her
name in print with several different pieces would suggest in the US that she's a bona fide manga
artist, not just someone who's drawing manga on the side, but has yet to sell.
Right. But yeah, I understand what she was saying because in Japan, if you don't get paid
with the job, you can't call yourself with the job title. So she feels like she's not there yet.
She's been paid, right? She's not making so much money that she doesn't have another job,
but she has gotten paid for her work, right? Yes. Yeah. She's very humble. I mean,
Japanese people are very humble about themselves. And when I was trying to make a profile for her
on the podcast, I first wrote, her name is Sugimoto. Sugimoto is a shoujo manga artist.
And immediately she was like, no, please change the profile. It's more like, well, she writes
like a local magazine. And then what does she say? Besides she works on her manga or something.
Right. Right. Right. But I was like, that's true. But she can say that she's a manga artist,
but it's different. It's very different in Japan. And she feels a little bit embarrassed
of calling herself a manga artist. I think the embarrassment is from the idea that someone in
夢の実現と家族の反応
Japan that she knows will find out that she dared to call herself an artist on this podcast.
And we'll be like, you're not a real manga artist. How could you think that? How do you think it's
okay to say that? Or shame her for not being successful enough or something. But yeah. So
I don't know that she's embarrassed about... She's not embarrassed of being a manga artist.
I think she's embarrassed of feeling like she's overreaching by claiming something that other
people will judge her for if they find out about it. Yeah. I remember when she told her family that
she wants to be a manga artist after she got much older. The family's reaction was like,
you can't be a manga artist. Are you joking? That kind of attitude. Why were they so mean about it?
I don't know. I think, you know, we, Sugimoto and I are from the same hometown,
from home prefecture in this countryside. And it sounds like some kind of dream job she was
talking about. And then family was like, I think for family, it's not realistic for her to achieve
the goal without even reading her manga or anything. Right. Yeah. So I think if I said
something similar to my parents, I think I would get the same kind of reaction.
Yeah. I feel like that's a really big cultural difference between the U.S. and Japan. I feel
like in the U.S., little kids would be like, I want to be an NBA player when I grow up. And the
parents are like, that's great. Practice really hard instead of being like, well, statistically,
you're probably not going to make it. So get a real job. And in Japan, your dreams are crushed
very early to be like, no, that's not realistic. Don't do it. Yeah. That's what happened to me
when I was an elementary school student. I was so into drawing or painting, and I loved doing it.
And I thought, maybe I can be a painter in the future. So I told that to my dad. And my dad was,
well, OK, if you like drawing so much, you should draw or paint a picture per day.
So I was like, OK, I can do that. And I started doing it. And it was not fun for me anymore.
It felt like work. And I didn't like doing it. I didn't want to draw or paint every single day.
And then one day, I stopped, and I was like, I can't be a painter because I can't paint
every single day. And I just gave up because I didn't think I could achieve the goal.
I mean, that seems pretty extreme as a method of trying to convince somebody they must do that
every day to be a painter, I got to say. But I mean, it was probably good practice.
But yeah, it also seems like maybe it made you hate it at an age when, had you been allowed to
pursue your own creativity a little more, that would have been nice.
Yeah, I'm talking about when I was like six, seven, eight, around that age.
Yeah. Yeah, that seems pretty rough.
I mean, probably that was the way my dad tried to convince me not being a painter in the future.
I guess it worked. But I wish my dad was more encouraging, like, oh, you did a great job.
Keep doing whatever you like to do. But I was just a kid.
杉本の夢の実現
Yeah. I mean, I will say that even in America, there are probably a lot of parents who want
to dissuade their children from trying to be artists when they grow up, because the perception
is that artists don't make any money. But I feel like as long as it's like a profession
where people make money, American parents are a little bit more encouraging, even if it's
American parents are a little bit more encouraging, even if it's kind of a long shot
type of journey. You know what I mean?
So, yeah, I can't imagine like what, you know, Sugimoto went through, and then she finally,
you know, become a manga artist. And we really like cheered her up, like,
we really think you're a manga artist.
Right.
And she sounded happy.
Yeah. I mean, I think especially given that she started taking manga really seriously
in her early 30s. You know, it's great that she's finally pursuing this kind of lifelong dream
and taking it seriously. And there's lots of examples in literature of people who don't
start writing until they're, you know, pretty well on in their careers or lives. You know,
they'll be in their 40s and 50s and put out a book for the first time and produce like,
you know, awesome work. So I'm looking forward to the things that she writes next.
Yeah, I'm excited too, because like, I really enjoyed her
works in the past. And I just, I don't know, I'm going to be a supporter for her forever.
That's so sweet.
アニメとその反響
Yeah, I also wanted to bring about the very popular
anime song right now, which is Bling Bam Bam Born by Creepy Nuts.
I think it's, I don't know, it's an opening.
It's the second opening for the Mashal anime.
Right, right. I, you know, we tried to watch Mashal like a year ago, like a while ago.
And we did. And we didn't really think it was interesting.
Yeah, I think for me, some of the problem was that I read the manga from the time it started
appearing in Shonen Jump. So I read it from beginning to end before the anime even started
showing up on, I guess it's on Japanese Netflix. So I already know the entire story.
And I think like, there's nothing wrong with the anime, the anime is just fine. But it's hard for
me to be captivated about, oh, what's going to happen next? Because I just know. It's fine.
But it wasn't so great that I was like, oh, what an incredible adaptation,
I must watch the whole thing.
Yeah, I mean, like, after the song became so famous, and so popular,
you know, our son, who's almost 13, wanted to watch it on, watch the anime, and wanted to read.
So I started watching first few episodes. And it was really funny. It was pretty funny.
Especially if you have read or knew about Harry Potter.
Yeah.
Because it looks like a rip, not rip off, like based on.
Yeah, it has a similar kind of world to Harry Potter. Well, no, I actually don't. I'm not sure
I agree with that. I think like, it's a world where everybody, yeah. There's ways in which it
has some similarities to like, a lot of different pop culture touchstones. Like, I think like,
アニメの影響とキャラクターデザイン
it's kind of like My Hero Academia in that the main character is like, the only person who can't,
you know, do the amazing things that everybody else can do. And it's sort of like Harry, I think some
of the character design is based on Harry Potter, like the headmaster of the school is definitely
based on Dumbledore. And the the wands and the and the cloaks that they wear also seem like
influenced by Harry Potter. And they're like a magic academy and stuff. But beyond that,
I don't know that it's like, specifically Harry Potter, given that like, every character has like,
their own special magic, like. But yeah, I mean, I think it's it's a send up of like,
other anime about magic and wizards.
Yeah, yeah. I enjoyed watching it. It was really funny, especially for some reason, he really
likes eating choux cream. How do you pronounce choux cream?
I know it has like a French name that's not exactly the same thing. But I think in America,
nowadays, we know it as choux cream. And as like the Japanese version of the French thing,
not the French thing that it's originally.
What is cream puff?
Yeah, it's a cream puff. That's that's like, I think that's the correct English translation of
what this is. But cream puffs, this is just my maybe this is just like my bias and my take. But
I don't think cream puffs are very popular in America. So even tell people like, oh,
it's like a cream puff. People be like, yeah, but I've never eaten that either. So like,
calling that like, you know, choux cream is like, yeah, okay, like, I don't know what that is
either. Or calling it like a choux cream from Japan. You're like, yeah, I also have never
eaten that. So now that like Beard Papa is around in America, like I think people have had a choux
cream. But like, I think it's, it kind of tells you what you need to know, that the most famous,
like maker of cream puffs in America is a Japanese brand. Like, so I you know, there's not like a
well known American brand maker of cream puffs that like, you know, make the you know, there's
no like, version of that. That's like donuts. You know what I mean? Like, it's, it's a, it's a sweet,
we don't eat that often.
Interesting. Yeah, now. We have two sons, but like, second son really wants me to make choux cream.
Because he's never had it before. Yeah, I'm like, I don't know. Maybe he had it. He doesn't remember.
But I don't think he'll like.
Yeah, I think they're gonna eat it and be like, it's like, not really what I had in mind. I think
it's like, cream in the middle for them. And they're gonna be like, kind of gross, you know. So
yeah, that's just me projecting. That's how I feel about choux cream is like,
it's okay. But like, I don't, I don't like cream filled donuts either. So
right. Like, I would kind of just rather not.
I used to like it when I was a kid. And it's a lot of cream inside and choux cream.
Yeah, yeah. But I like I want I want him to, you know, give it a try. Because he's interested in
日本のラップ音楽の特徴
from anime and manga. So it's a chance. Yeah, it seems fair.
Yeah. So yeah, I wanted to talk about the song, which I don't know, like if people love the song,
like it's so catchy. And it's so easy to remember the especially the chorus.
Well, yeah, I mean, it's definitely an earworm. I think like the ability to remember like the
sound of the song is really easy. I had been hearing it for a while not really clocking that
it was a Japanese song or related to anime. And I like I really thought the first few times I heard
it that it was like, like a bad bunny song. I didn't know it was in Japanese the first time
I heard it and was like, you know, like remember the the chorus but remembered it wrong. Like,
for real thought it was like in Spanish. So I agree that it's like, it's definitely really
catchy. But I think actually, it's those elements of the song that have made it like kind of go viral
and be popular. Is that like, it's a real like cross of like different musical styles.
Yeah, we tried to sing it in Japanese. I mean, there are a lot of English words in there too.
It's so fast. I'm not a rapper.
It's like a such a fast song. It goes like blink of eye.
Yeah, I'm not a rapper either. But as someone who has performed rap songs at karaoke, like,
it's fast. But it's not like impossibly faster than other rap songs, like regardless of language,
like there are faster Japanese rap songs than this song. And, but it's, it's got like, it
definitely mixes English and Japanese a lot. To like, to an extent that like, yeah, a lot of Japanese
like rap music has a mix of English and Japanese in it. But I think this one's kind of notable for
mixing in like modern English slang. Like the idea of like cho flex is like really interesting to me
that like, you know, that with flexing, I don't know, maybe flexing is like 10 years old, and
I'm, I'm just behind the times and stuff. But that strikes me, the whole song strikes me as like a
little bit more, I don't know, modern than like a lot of other Japanese rap music has like sounded
up until this point. And like, and again, I think there's like really an influence from like, not
American rap, but from like, you know, from like, Latin music, or like Latin rap music, in terms of
like the A, you know, like, that's, I don't know, that just really conjures Bad Bunny for me, I'm sure
he's not the only person doing it. But like, I get like a little bit of like that sense in it, too.
I thought, you know, like, when we tried to sing it together, I find it, the first part
of the song, the rapping part is easy for me, compared to the second part, the rhythm is
completely different. Right. And for you, that's the other way around. It's the other way around. I
think the first part is hard for me, just because wrapping my mouth around some of the
like combinations of Japanese is hard, or just like saying the Japanese words in a row is more
difficult. The second part has like a rhythm that is not uncommon in American rap songs. And
I don't know, for whatever reason, I feel like the language in the second verse is like easier
for me to just spit out. Yeah, it's definitely English, like rhythm. Yeah, I think. Yeah. So like
the second part, I can't do the second part. I can do the first part easily, but not the second part.
We should just tag team, you know, like, we should each like do the part that we're good at. I think
that's, that's how we should sing the song. Yeah, I mean, it got a shout out in me and Roboco, which
is like, one of my favorite mangas that's like current and being released. Like they did a whole
chapter about it, which made me like, really, really happy one that I'm like, ship it and like
with it enough with like modern culture, you know, this reference, but also because I was like, oh,
this is good. So maybe like extended staying power, like a little bit longer, you know?
Yeah. Well, all right. There you have it. We talked about that's not how you say no,
no, no, no, that's that was a great use of that idiom. Well done. Okay. So like, last episode,
we did the word of the day and I want to do the word of the day today again. And I thought maybe
漫画のジャンルの違い
you can explain about shoujo manga and shonen manga, like probably a lot of people here in
America, too. Yeah. Do you want to explain that? Sure. I mean, I think this is one where even some
non-Japanese speakers may have picked up on these terms because of the way in which like they've
been deployed and in conversations around anime and manga that, you know, where you like, these
terms are used a lot, but shonen means boy, shoujo means girl. And these two terms describe the
audiences of each of these types of manga. So shonen manga is directed towards boys and shoujo
manga is directed towards girls. And they often have some differences in terms of like both
characters and plot. Like shoujo, shonen manga tend to focus more on like a team of dudes battling
some other guys like forever. And then shoujo manga tend to be like stories about romance,
you know, one way or another. And then they have like, they have a different aesthetic style too.
Shoujo manga has a lot more sort of open space in it often, or like kind of like decorations and like
uses of like, you know, of negative space or like, like, I don't know, flowers or roses as borders,
like really intricate kind of like borders around the characters. Whereas shonen manga tends to
really just be like the actions of the characters in the manga. And then the background sort of
varies by artist in terms of how detailed it is. But yeah, I think those are the, those strike me
as the most salient differences between the two forms. And some manga is like crossover and is a
little bit of both, or is a shoujo manga but has, you know, kind of looks more visually like one
kind or the other. They're definitely not like categories you can't like play with or bend,
but those seem to be like the big stereotypical differences.
You know, when I was a child, I used to read. No, that's not true. I didn't read. I used to buy,
少女漫画の魅力
I used to buy shoujo manga, because I didn't, I was not into reading at all. But I loved like flipping
the pages and looking at, you know, pictures, pretty pictures. But I didn't like reading. So
I got shoujo manga magazine, and usually comes with furoku. It's like a little, little like,
I don't know, gift thing when you buy that it could be like a letter set, or it could be,
I don't know, some like a paper thing you can play with. So that was the main part of the reason why
I used to buy shoujo manga. And a lot of, even though I didn't read, like they were like
Sailor Moon or like Rayearth or something like that. And a lot of like romance. And I
liked, I preferred reading romance stories rather than fighting ones. Yeah.
I was gonna say, I think Rayearth and Sailor Moon are good examples of like that sort of
cross genre style where like, they're published in shoujo manga magazines,
but they're like plot structure kind of seems more like a shounen manga.
Yeah, but I also read shounen manga too, like jump. Yeah, I, again, I'm not into fighting
stories. So I didn't read any fighting ones, but I read like short stories or like stories,
something. And with that chapter, I didn't, I didn't have to be, you know, anticipated to wait
for another one. Yeah. But like when I was reading shounen jump back, you know, how many, I don't
know, a couple of years, not a couple, like decades ago, it was very boy-like manga, like a
boy-focused, boy-centered manga. But it sounds like it's not the case these days.
In shounen jump specifically?
Yeah. I'm trying to like think of all the things that are big in shounen jump.
Didn't you say about figure skating and then like a blue flag and this stuff?
Yeah, those are all available on the American shounen jump app, but I don't think they ran
in like, you know, the weekly edition of shounen jump. I mean, two on ice, I actually don't know,
two on ice might be serialized in weekly shounen jump, even if it is, the main character is still
like a cisgendered heterosexual guy, at least as far as the story has gotten so far. So I would
credit that like that one really has sort of like an equal presence of like a strong female lead.
I don't think she is the main character, but she's like half of the main character, I guess. And like
the other one that's kind of new that has a little bit of the same dynamic, green, green, greens,
which is about golf. And I hate golf. I really am deeply uninterested in golf, but the manga itself
is like, okay, you know, I'm like, and it's like, that one also has like a strong female character,
but she's also not the main character. The main character, again, is like a dude who's like,
maybe kind of in love with her. So, you know, it's a, it's progress, but the bar is really low.
I'm trying to think of a shounen jump manga, you know, which one did have a female lead was
God of Destruction. That, the main character is a girl and there are male characters in it, but they,
漫画キャラクターとストーリー
you know, they're the side characters. And I really liked that one. I thought it was like a good
comedy manga. And it's that sort of notable for having that. And I guess like, you could argue
about me and Roboco. Is Roboco the main character or is Bondo the main character? Like, I don't know.
There's, there's probably a debate to be had there. Roboco is the main character. Yeah. See, you know,
so that's one way of looking at it. In which case, like, she's a robot, but like she presents
as female most of the time. I guess Shoujo Null is kind of like that too. There's sort of like a,
like a male main character, but he's, well, I don't know. I think that one's also like, that's,
I think that's serialized in like the web version. I don't think it's in the print version,
but whatever. I mean, like, I don't, I guess I'm not, I don't know enough about
what's in the actual Shonen Jump versus what's only in the American Shonen Jump app to like,
really say for sure. But yeah, I, I think most of the big stories still center on like Shonen
characters, you know? And, and a lot of their plots are still kind of like generally Shonen
manga plots. Like they're not crossing over that much. I see. I see. Yep. Okay. So Shoujo,
so like our friend, our manga artist friend is Shoujo mangaka, Shoujo manga artist. And then,
yeah, she, she draws very beautifully. And then I was telling Sisko that, you know, we probably can
ask her to draw us in the future with that Shoujo manga style. I'm honestly just scared of what
that's going to turn out like, but also flattered that she might do it at all.
Yeah, I don't know if she will do it, but like I, we can ask and then we can put it on like
social media. Look, this is what we look like. Oh God. Yeah. I feel like if there's ever a
comparison, people will be like hugely disappointed. Yeah. No, no comparison. No,
you can't compare it, but you know, people can fantasize. I don't know if I want them to fantasize,
we'll just leave it there. You know what I mean? I feel like we're getting into dangerous water here.
Okay. All right. Thank you so much for joining today. Don't forget to subscribe and follow 2am
Otaku and 3am Otaku, which is only in Japanese, but like, if you know Japanese, that would be
like a good practice to listen to. They are on Spotify, Apple podcasts and on YouTube.
It would mean so much to us and we will keep making fun episodes.
See you next time at more 2am Otaku.
