エピソードの共有と予測
I just had a really meta thought. I was like, what if the show is trying to make us feel
Tomazane and or Apolia about trying to resolve the plot problems in the show?
Welcome back to 2AM OTTACK! I'm your host Mayu, a born and raised Japanese non-otaku, and
I'm Cisco, an American otaku.
In this podcast, we share our reviews of anime and manga through our distinct
perspectives with commentary on Japanese culture, history, and language.
Cisco, I was going to wait to record about another Orb episode after the anime series ended,
but I couldn't wait.
You just love it that much?
I love it that much and there's so much to talk about.
I guess that's true.
And I don't think we can fit three episodes in one episode.
You know, yeah, okay, that's fair.
Yeah, so I decided to split in two episodes.
All right.
And we're going to dive into it today.
So today we're going to talk about...
Orb on the movements of the Earth.
In this week's episode, we will focus on Orbs episode 23 and 24,
and talk about some important moments and the scenes.
Also, we will try to explain about Arete.
Arete.
Arete.
Actually, you know, to be brutally honest with you, I'm not totally sure how to pronounce this word.
It's Greek.
The spelling makes me think it's Arete, but I think it might actually be closer to Arete.
Also, we will try to explain about Taumazin.
Yeah, I don't know how to pronounce that either.
Taumazin, I think, which were used in episode 24.
And we will finish it with today's word of the day.
So, spoiler alert, just in case we hadn't said that clearly enough.
Pretty much what we do...
We've been spoiling all the episodes.
Yeah, yeah, good point.
Yeah, yeah.
Before we start, please subscribe to MLTAC on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music,
YouTube, and YouTube Music so that we can keep making more fun episodes.
The good thing about podcasts is you don't have to watch.
Not that there's anything to watch in the YouTube video anyway.
Yeah, because we're podcasters.
Yeah, so enjoy listening to our podcast while doing some work,
cooking, exercising, and we will be there for you.
We're commuting.
Yes.
衝撃的な結末
All right, let's start from episode 23.
We gotta say your prediction kind of was right.
It was not that far off the mark, was it?
See, they killed everyone.
Everybody died.
Everybody died.
Yeah.
Everybody died.
Okay, yes.
Like, I guess I wasn't saying it as a joke, exactly.
But like, I didn't...
I'm not sure I 100% expected everyone to die.
Like, I thought someone would survive.
And they didn't.
They all died.
Oh, my God.
Oh, my God.
That was...
We kind of...
Yeah, like you said, we were gonna...
Probably everyone's gonna die.
But we didn't think through, like, how they're gonna die.
Yeah, I was like, natural disaster.
That was what I was betting on.
Right.
But no.
No.
Man-made disaster.
That was crazy.
I mean, I feel like I should have seen this coming more,
given the way that Draka's uncle or whatever died.
Just, you know, with no ceremony whatsoever,
in the middle of a battle between other people.
Oops, got a sword to the neck.
Dead.
And like, that kind of felt like the same way that everybody died in this episode.
Like, Antony dying, I totally saw coming, right?
You could tell that Novak was angry enough to just straight up kill that guy.
And so that was predictable.
ドラマと感情の衝突
But then like, Novak also stabbing Draka for kind of no reason.
And then Draka being like, oh, yeah,
and stabbing Novak back and like, killing him immediately.
Like, oh, my God.
So realistic.
So realistic.
Yeah.
I kept my mouth open.
Yeah, Draka got out of the church and everything and was like, oh, I've been stabbed.
But, you know, in any other show, they'd be like, oh, good thing I brought a bandage.
Like, now I'm fine.
And instead it's like, oh, like, yeah, you probably did some damage to like an internal organ.
Like, I'm dead after like a little bit more walking.
What?
But she did her job.
Yeah.
Yeah.
She sent some kind of message.
Yep.
On the pigeon.
I mean, can it possibly be enough, though?
Like, is there another copy of the book anywhere?
I don't know.
Right.
She's dead.
I don't know.
There's always something right there.
Maybe.
I hope so.
Or they just leave that like as an unresolved issue in the last episode.
Oh, what happened to Draka's like messenger pigeon?
Oh, I don't know.
We just like decided not to show that.
Yeah.
I think that's going to be like something related to Rafael or Potocki.
Why?
Because of like, you know, Yolanda didn't read it.
But like I heard the whole story of the book that Oxy wrote.
Right.
And at the end, and like, you know, make sure to.
Give 10% of the proceeds to Potocki.
Yeah.
Maybe.
God, who knows?
Yeah.
So Novak is dead, too.
Novak's also dead.
Which is a big deal.
Yeah.
And it was like some very emotional and sad scene, right?
Of him confronting his version of Rafael's ghost.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then like the scene, he brought the gloves of Yolanda and put the arm.
Yeah.
I can't really understand what that's trying to say.
I was pretty sure when Yolanda blew herself up that Novak didn't realize it was her.
Then why did he do that?
Why did he, you know.
Keep the arm?
Pick it up.
Yeah.
I can't.
I'm not sure.
Like, it doesn't make sense to me that he did know it was her.
But I don't understand why he kept the arm if he didn't know it was her.
And so maybe he had like some suspicions or maybe he kind of figured it out at the very
last minute.
But did she know it was him or no?
We don't know after people die.
I mean, I guess maybe we just have to live with that mystery.
But the fact that he puts the glove on the arm does feel like maybe he's admitting it
to himself at the end.
Maybe he's in denial up until that point about it having been her.
And you remember, like the whole point of the gloves earlier is that when she puts them
on as a kid, they're too big, right?
He's gotten them like several sizes too large, but she's going to grow into them.
And why does he have the glove?
Well, that was the last thing, like a part of her before she was executed.
Oh, the bishop returns them to him.
Yes.
And so when Rafal's like, what's the one thing you should be doing right now?
And he puts the gloves on.
Yeah.
But then I don't know.
It's so frustrating to me that there's not more resolution there of him either.
I mean, so maybe he doesn't know.
Maybe it's just a woman's arm to him and he doesn't know it's Yolanta's and he puts the
glove on it anyway, imagining that it's hers when in fact it really is hers.
キャラクターの運命とストーリー
But he didn't know that ever.
Magically, he knew at the moment.
At the very end.
Right before he dies.
Right.
It's surprising he doesn't see Yolanta in that moment and instead he sees Rafal.
Yeah, that's interesting because maybe because Rafal was so young, like maybe Yolanta's age,
and then he kept thinking it's too young to die for his belief.
Except that theoretically, that's exactly what happens to Yolanta, right?
Right.
But he, yeah, made it to 39.
Yeah.
But he doesn't know that, right?
Right.
Maybe, yeah, in his mind.
Yeah.
I mean, like, do we think that he thought she had survived and become the leader of the
Heretic Liberation Front?
Like, definitely not, right?
He couldn't have guessed that, I don't think.
But maybe, I mean, I guess it's possible he put it all together in between finding the
arm and being in the church.
And then maybe that's some of his, like, rage at Antony is him, like, figuring all of the
things out kind of all at the last minute.
Yeah.
And then, you know, remember Draco was wearing Yolanta's shawl.
Shawl, yeah.
But Novak doesn't react to it at all.
Because he didn't show it.
Okay, maybe.
I mean, it seems really messed up that he would have stabbed Draco if he understood
that was Yolanta's shawl and was like, whatever, I don't care, right?
Or maybe he's like, I partially blame you for her death.
Maybe.
I feel like we're reading, like, way too much into this, to be honest.
We can just let it go.
All right.
Okay.
So at the first episode of Orb, it says P.
P kingdom, yeah.
P kingdom.
Yeah.
Didn't really specify where.
No, it's pretty clearly Poland because of everybody's name.
But yeah, it didn't specify it.
It was like trying to play coy about where it was being, where it was.
Right.
But now it says Poland.
Yeah.
I wonder, like, what happened with that?
Did the animator just be like, guys, they figured it out.
It's everyone else's Poland.
We might as well just say that.
Or like, why?
Like, why change it?
It was a specific year.
1468.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So maybe that's a clue.
Maybe.
And he moves on to episode 24.
Tamazane?
Tamazane.
You know what?
I don't know how to.
Why am I correcting you?
I don't know how to pronounce that either.
Yeah, right.
Tamazane.
Why do you think that's right?
Because that's how it's written in Japanese.
Tamazane.
Oh, OK.
Yeah.
OK, well, we'll just go with the Japanese pronunciation then.
It could be something totally different in English and or Greek.
So it has a new opening with a new guy.
Yep.
Like you expected.
I did call this actually.
I mean, I think it felt right to me that they were going to wrap Draka's story.
Like, I did not think Draka was going to be the last person in the chain.
And so I don't really understand how they're going to make it all make sense.
In the last episode, like they got a lot of connecting to do.
And the episode before this like did not help a lot.
Like episode 25 gave me more questions than answers.
So I'm not going to like rule it out that we're going to get there in the last episode.
But it feels like there's still a long way to go in terms of connecting all the dots.
And I just had a really meta thought.
キャラクターの役割とストーリーの深化
I was like, what if the show is trying to make us feel Tamazane and or Apolia about
trying to resolve the plot problems in the show?
Like, I kind of hope that's not what's going on here.
But like, it works on a meta level.
Okay.
Maybe.
Damn.
Okay.
Well, let's see what's going to happen next, right?
Yes.
Let's see what happens next.
Yeah.
Anyway, so new opening has like all the main characters appear in the order of Rafael,
Badeni, Oxy, Yolanda, Novak, and Draka.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Novak is in it.
Is in the opening?
Yeah.
In this new opening?
New opening.
He's in all the openings though.
Yeah.
But like he is not the, you know, be part of like...
Yeah.
Heliocentrism.
He's not part of like advancing the theory.
Right.
He's the evil guy.
I don't think he's evil, but he's the bad guy in the story, which is how they describe
it in episode 23.
23.
Yes.
Yeah.
But then like Rafael kind of makes the whole point that it's actually less important that
he was quote unquote good or bad or advancing heliocentrism or not advancing heliocentrism,
but that he's part of the story and how things played out and like the struggle that happened.
Whereas he, you know, doesn't really have views on it one way or the other, it seems
like.
I guess toward the end, he really hates it because he sees it as responsible for a lot
of his misfortunes in life.
Yeah.
And then Alberto, how do you pronounce his name?
Albert.
Albert.
Okay.
I think.
Alberto.
I mean, he would be Alberto in Spanish or in a lot of other languages,
but I think in English, he's probably just Albert.
Albert comes in and there's a conversation between Albert and the bread maker, baker.
Yes.
The baker.
The baker.
Yes.
Who I know you identify very strongly with.
Yeah.
I was glad to have baker in the episode.
Yeah.
And then he tells Albert that all things have arte.
Arte.
Arte.
Which means something you're good at or something only you can do.
Sort of.
Yeah.
Right?
Yeah.
There's like a couple of different ways to define arte and that's one of them.
But I think I had previously to this always seen arte or arte described as excellence
or the sort of quality of having perfect character or developing yourself to your own fullest
extent.
And so the idea that things other than humans have arte like or excellence or,
you know, sort of perfection in their own qualities was a new idea to me,
but one that made a lot of sense that there's, you know,
there's a different type of excellence for each thing.
So for the baker, baking is his arte.
Yeah.
For humans, thinking is their arte.
Arte, yeah.
Or that like for, yeah, for humans,
our arte comes in the process of questioning and learning about the world,
which is fits very nicely with the ideas of the scholars who are trying to understand
the universe and understand the, you know, outer space and heliocentrism and stuff.
Right.
Because the baker wanted Albert to go to college, but he didn't want to.
Yeah.
The baker is kind of accusing Albert of not fulfilling Albert's own arte by,
or developing Albert's own arte by pursuing knowledge and his own sort of self-actualization.
And I guess none of the characters are really thinking about this as a moral quality at this
point, but there is a moral dimension to arte where you become a good person by pursuing your
own excellence, even if that excellence is not the same as somebody else's excellence.
ラファエルとアルバートの対話
And then Albert was asked to go to a church by the baker to bring a bread.
So he did.
And he saw, he didn't see the priest, the priest was in the box, confessional box.
Confessional booth, yeah.
Yeah.
And he didn't mean to like say anything, but he ended up talking to the priest.
Right.
In the box.
During that time, there was like a flashback scene.
Right.
Of his childhood.
And then we see an adult, Raphael.
I don't know that he's an adult.
He seems kind of like a teenager to me.
Still young?
Yeah.
But he has a high voice.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like not, not yet 20-ish, I would say.
Teen?
Yeah.
He seems to me to be like in his mid to late teens, but he's like a tutor.
It actually gave me vibes of the girl from Mushoku Tensei who's tutoring the boy when
he's really young, but she looks also pretty young.
Right.
But yeah, so it seems like a, like a mid-teens tutor for this young child teaching him about
astronomy.
Yeah.
So Albert was saying like, it's a waste if you're curious and then like study about it
and then doesn't make anything.
It's a waste or something.
Yeah.
Sort of this idea that like, if you aren't applying knowledge usefully, then it's a
waste of time.
Right.
And Raphael's like, no, the point is to just try and understand even if you don't get it
right, or even if you can't solve it.
Right.
And that's coming from a place of Tamasein, like wonder at the mystery of the world.
So what's Tamasein?
So Tamasein is a feeling of, I think awe is probably a good way to describe it.
Most of the translations I've seen for it are wonder, to feel wonder and to like, I
think it's the experience of looking at the natural world and saying, how did this happen?
And I think creationists, people who believe that like, God or a deity created the world
often rely on this type of argument to say, the world is so complex, it can't have just
happened by accident.
There must be a creator, a watchmaker, sometimes they'll use that metaphor, who has designed
the world the way it is.
This is the intelligent design argument.
And I think the same feelings that might lead you to that conclusion, that feeling of like,
wow, how is the world this amazing?
When you look at like a leaf and see all the different lines in the leaf, or you think
about the fact that all matter is made up of atoms combining to form molecules, which
then go on to make cells, which are the tiniest form of life, which combine in their billions
to make living organisms.
All of the really specific and unique circumstances of the earth that made it a habitable planet,
and then gave rise to all forms of life and eventually humans that are living in this
incredibly complicated world.
That feeling of being like, mind blown by the world and universe as it exists is Tamo Zeng.
And you want to know more.
And then it leads to this desire to be like, I don't understand how everything in the world
works.
I want to know more about it.
I want to have answers as to why things are the way they are.
Tama Zeng, which is that feeling of like, I don't know, but it's so amazing, leads to
アポリアと哲学の探求
this desire for more knowledge.
And that state of wonder or bewilderment where you sort of don't understand or where there's
too many answers and you can't find the right one.
That's Apolia.
And philosophy is an attempt to resolve Apolia and a response to Tama Zeng of being like,
wow, this is blowing my mind.
Let me try to work on understanding it by doing some philosophical inquiry.
So the first chorus of Orb's ending theme song is called Apolia.
Right.
And that's where this comes from.
Yeah.
Well, that's a connection to that word.
It's a word that I didn't know before this show.
Right.
I suppose I've been in a state of Apolia about things before.
Like, is there a God or not?
It's like a question that for a lot of people leads to Apolia, where you sort of can't know
or answer the question.
But then there's like this, you know, that desire to know is the, you know, leads people
to try to figure it out.
Yeah.
After hearing about this word, like the opening theme song makes more sense.
Like, I want to know.
Right.
Yeah.
I want to know.
I want to figure it out.
Yeah, exactly.
Right.
All right.
And I wanted to say that I was excited to have Atsumi Tanezaki voice actor as Albert's
voice when he was young.
Yeah.
Yes.
Because.
It's Anya.
It's Anya.
I still don't really understand.
I can't hear it.
So.
It's Anya.
Also, it's Gyokuyo from the Apothecary Diaries.
No way.
Yes, the way.
Also from.
It's the wolf girl from the Beasters.
I OK.
I mean, like, I believe you.
She's amazing.
Yeah.
She is clearly a very talented voice actor.
Also, Freerun.
You know what?
Now when you say Freerun, I'm like, yeah, I kind of hear it.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
Well, Freerun has like more of like a bored voice.
So I sort of get it.
I've only watched one episode of Freerun.
Like, bear with me.
You haven't seen it at all.
But yeah, I kind of get that more actually as young Albert equals Freerun than the other
two examples.
All right.
All right.
So that's that.
All right.
Let's do word of the day.
OK.
Can I suggest?
Yeah.
Take it away.
Kokuhaku.
Oh, good one.
声優の田中あすみ
Yeah.
OK.
I guess I should have seen this coming actually from the Japanese episode.
So kokuhaku means confession.
And for me anyway, and maybe this is because I've watched too much anime.
A lot of otaku.
To me, kokuhaku really implies a romantic confession.
Telling your crush that you like them is what I thought was the only context of kokuhaku for
a very long time.
Like, you know, meeting the girl outside under a tree after you put a note in her, like,
you know, shoe box.
To be like, come meet me outside.
To be like, I'm in love with you.
And then have her be like, I'm sorry, I can't return your feelings and then run away.
Right.
Like that's what the experience of kokuhaku is in my mind.
Yes.
Very stereotypical.
Very stereotypical.
But it also means just literally confession.
And so the confessional booth is called what in Japanese?
It's called different though.
I didn't know this word until I watched this episode of kokkaisutsu.
OK.
But the koku is the same, right?
Yes.
OK.
So it's still about confessing.
In English, to confess can mean to tell someone that you have a crush on that you like them,
but that's not its main meaning.
Confession more often implies you've done something wrong and you are owning up to it
by being like, actually, it was me.
And so we use it both in like criminal law contexts and also in the context of
specifically Catholicism needing to confess your sins before receiving communion.
So that's kokuhaku is both that term for telling your crush that you like them actually
and the term for confessing your sins before receiving the Eucharist the next day.
Right.
All right.
Before we end, would you like to add anything?
Rafalの復活とその影響
I don't think everyone's going to die again.
That would really blow my mind.
I am very, very interested and also sort of concerned about Rafal having come back.
I don't really know what to make of that.
I'm going to be kind of I guess I won't say like disappointed or upset
if it's like he faked his death in the third episode.
But like they're going to need to do a really good job explaining this
as to like how he is still alive and teaching young Albert.
Like, I would much rather have it be like, oh,
he like did that on the side like the day before he got executed.
And I don't know why he looks so much older.
We just messed up the animation like that.
And we're like, oh, OK.
But if it's like, no, yeah, he like actually isn't dead
or we're in like an alternate timeline or like some other thing,
like I'm just not sure how I'm going to feel about it.
So I'm getting kind of nervous about what the last episode is going to reveal.
But it's been so good so far that I want to believe
I'm going to feel OK about whatever the ending is.
Right.
Right.
Well, I sort of have idea.
Yeah.
Don't don't you dare spoil it for me.
I can't believe you like spoilers.
No, I didn't read.
I mean, I did.
Yeah, you totally did.
You read something somewhere and I read something.
It's not exactly what's going to how it's going to end.
No, don't tell me.
特別展示会の紹介
OK, one thing I can tell is I think it's already started,
but there is a like a special exhibition
at like Japanese Science Museum about orb.
That's so cool.
Isn't that so cool?
I would definitely go see this.
It's going to happen only three months.
Yeah, that's a way too short.
I know.
Like they're going to have like you can basically experience what,
you know, animation, not the animation.
You know what I mean?
The orb story in the museum.
So they like torture you and stuff.
If you say you believe in heliocentrism.
Not that part.
I don't think not that part.
It's not torture museum.
But you can make, you know, you can, you know, use an astrolabe.
Right.
You can try to do that.
You can try using the printing press.
OK, that's pretty cool.
Right.
Yeah.
And then you can sit at the like a table right before Raphael was going to die.
You know, there's like a moon.
You can drink some poppy juice.
OK, because like, you know, it's like an Instagram worthy picture and this stuff.
And you solve the problems or something like that.
Yeah, I probably can't do that.
Anyway, it looks so good.
Nice.
I've never heard of this museum before until.
But now you're like really into it.
Yeah.
Where is this?
Like I want to go now.
Cool.
So that's what's happening.
If you live in Japan, go and then let us know.
Orbについての紹介
All right.
Yeah.
We would love to hear about it.
Yeah.
So we really enjoy watching Orb.
And we already talked about earlier episodes of Orb in the past.
So check those episodes out in the description.
If you are listening on YouTube, there will be windows and the screen which leads to those
episodes.
So check them out, too.
Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode.
If you liked this week's episode, please give us good reviews on Spotify and Apple Podcasts
or like and leave a comment on YouTube.
Make sure to subscribe and follow 2AMOTAK and 3AMOTAK.
3AMOTAK, we talk all about anime and manga, just like 2AMOTAK, but all in Japanese.
So if you are studying Japanese, listen both.
But mostly to my use Japanese because mine is not that good.
Anyway, you can, you know, brush up your Japanese skill and then practice listening.
Yes, you can.
Japanese, too.
Yes.
So see you next time for more 2AMOTAK and more episodes about Orb.
Peace.
