00:01
What's up amazing people, this is IYASASA RADIO by Akane and Minami.
In this radio, we are going to talk about random topics in Okinawan Japanese and English.
はいたーい。
ぐすーよーちゅーがなびら、イヤササレディオのアカネとミナミやいびん。
うぬレーディオでぐすーよーんかいやいごとウチナーグチさんに、
いっぺーうむさるはなしつづけやんりちうむとういびん。
The program content from the variety show SAKURAI ARIYOSHI THE NIGHT'S MEETING TVS NETWORK
aired on January 18th, 2024, has sparked controversy on social media.
The content featured Fumi Nikaido, an actor from Okinawa,
taking on a dialect ban press conference challenge.
After the show's official ex-account posted a promotional tweet on January 17th,
it received critical responses by January 22nd,
stirring controversy with comments like,
the insensitivity of allowing such a content to pass.
Are they unaware of a dialect tax, a form of discrimination against Okinawa?
It's outright colonialist and harsh to make someone from Okinawa do a dialect ban press conference.
When J-Cast News inquired with TBS, PR, and IR department on January 22nd
about the production background, intentions behind the content, reception of the criticism,
future responses, and measures to prevent recurrence, they replied,
the program content was intended to test whether actors who can perfectly perform any role
might still be inadvertently drawn to their native dialects.
It was based on a similar content with another actor that was well-received in the past,
and we did not sufficiently consider the historical context of Okinawa.
We take the feedback that this was discriminatory very seriously
and will utilize it in future program production.
However, it's delicate to gauge how much sympathy these criticisms have garnered.
Judging by the comments on internet news articles covering this flame war,
the majority seem to be it's not a problem or it's being overthought.
Variety program, Sakurai Ariyoshi The Yakai TBSK's
January 18th, 2024 broadcast plan has caused a stir on social media.
It's a plan where an actor from Okinawa, Fumi Nikaido,
will try to do a dialect ban press conference.
On the 17th, the official program was X,
03:00
and when the program was posted,
the following criticisms were brought up to the 22nd, causing a stir.
This kind of plan will go unnoticed.
Don't you know the Okinawan discrimination of dialect ban?
For an Okinawan to do a dialect ban press conference,
it's unethical and unethical.
Jcastnews on the 22nd,
asked the TBSK's IR department about the criticism of the program,
and asked about future countermeasures and countermeasures.
The countermeasures plan is to verify that
any actor who can play any role well
will be banned from speaking their native language.
In the past, when another actor broadcasted the same plan,
it was popular,
and there was not enough consideration for the historical background of Okinawa.
The criticism of this plan being discriminatory
is accepted by us as gentlemen,
and we will make use of it for future program production.
However, the extent to which this kind of criticism
has received a lot of sympathy is a delicate matter.
Looking at the comments posted on the Internet news
that raised this controversy,
there are more comments saying,
there is no problem, too worried.
How did you like it?
It was fun.
Nikaido-san,
she tried not to say Okinawan dialect,
and I was like,
I want her to say something in Okinawan.
It's more fun, but yeah.
She was saying,
she was speaking in Kyotsugo, anyways.
I see a lot of Japanese TV show or YouTube,
like, banned to say something.
You know, if you say a foreign language,
it gets banned.
So this kind of content
is so much familiar to Japanese people
to broadcast on TV.
But when it comes to Okinawan dialect,
it became viral in a bad way.
But I saw the comments on the X,
most of the people say like,
you think too much,
and that's like a
counter-discrimination idea.
Like, you mislead the victim again.
You know, some people say like,
so can they broadcast the ban of
Kansai dialect,
06:00
it's not gonna be viral, right?
But when it comes to Okinawa,
people taking it too seriously,
and blah blah blah.
I think not a lot of people know about
Okinawan history background of Hougen Fuda.
That's true.
Not only Hougen Fuda,
why the Hougen Fuda occurred by the government
is not a cute reason.
Yeah.
So, who doesn't know about Hougen Fuda?
I don't know.
I don't know.
Well, kind of same meaning.
When I meet older people, like Ojiyoba,
they tend to not speak in Okinawan language, you know.
To us, right?
Yeah.
They are like perfect bilingual.
Compared to those generation,
my mom and dad generation,
they like to talk in Okinawan dialect.
Like, we are the same age,
we are siblings,
we talk in Hougen dialect.
That's...
Do you think it's from Hougen Fuda things?
Hougen Fuda things is
speaking in standard language in the south,
the parents' generation.
No, Ojiyoba generation.
My mom and dad was not born yet.
But Ojiyoba generation was not born yet.
09:02
No, I heard that my dad,
when he was in elementary school,
they have Hougen Fuda.
Oh, still have it.
Even after the world war.
I think it depends on which school
they were in.
I think my dad was speaking in Hougen Fuda.
Yeah, he was.
He was like,
he is like, almost 70 now.
Yeah.
But like, my parents' generation,
they can speak perfectly,
perfect Okinawan.
And they are also so natural
in Hougen dialect to us.
They are bilingual.
Like, they switch so fast
to their little brothers, sisters,
and they talk in dialect.
Especially when they piss off,
they want to talk in Okinawan dialect, you know.
Yeah, when they get angry,
they get angry in Hougen dialect.
They say,
Come on, K, ansura!
I don't want to eat this,
I don't want to eat this.
If I say like that,
they are kind to me like 3 times.
If I get mad,
Come on, K, ansura!
They say that every time.
You remember that, right?
Because they say it.
But,
they didn't teach us Okinawan dialect.
Why?
Maybe because of this history, right?
They think they don't need it.
They don't understand it anyway.
They don't need it.
Maybe they are giving up.
But, when they go out
and communicate with
not family or friends,
they don't speak in Hougen.
I mean, my mom and dad generation.
You know what I mean?
They only talk in Okinawan dialect
with close friends or
close family.
Not like random people.
They use just Kyotsugo
when they go out.
Right?
So, it's like...
Secret.
Not secret, but
maybe like,
I think they feel rude
or they feel too casual
to speak in Okinawan dialect
to many people.
So, when they want to educate us,
they want to talk in Kyotsugo.
But, when they piss off
or get more emotional,
they can't hold, you know...
Their feelings.
It's more direct in their language.
Yeah, yeah.
Like, when people say
fuck or fuck off,
or hell,
it's a dirty word,
but they use it when they get emotional.
Like, fuck you.
Maybe our parents think like,
you know, to be able to
good Japanese,
standard Japanese,
can make us have a good life.
Yeah.
Because they experienced,
12:01
you know, going to mainland
and they cannot rent a house.
One of the real estate guy,
like, he's maybe
40 or 50.
When he went to the mainland
when he was young,
he was denied because,
you know,
when you rent a house,
you need to name the hoshounin.
Someone who can take over,
you know, when don't pay
yachin.
So, he put his family name,
like Okinawan family name,
then they denied.
Because
they don't trust Okinawan.
Or just the discrimination.
That's unfair.
People think like,
Okinawan are nice,
and people are so welcome about it.
And I didn't have a problem to have,
you know, to rent a house,
because I'm Okinawan.
So I didn't have any problem,
but back in the day,
like, it happened.
When I was on trip,
recently,
I met many people at the bar,
and I talked with them,
and I said, I'm from Okinawa.
And some people have been to Okinawa,
or some people haven't been to Okinawa,
but they were so interested in me.
And then,
they started singing
shimanchu no takara, shima uta,
to, you know,
like,
sing Okinawa song together with me.
I feel so special,
and then,
I feel so welcome to them.
So,
I feel good about it.
Maybe our generation
is the key
to rebranding Okinawa again.
Yeah.
100%.
In a good way,
and with knowing the history also.
When I think about, like,
Okinawan local artists,
they wanna sing
in Okinawan dialect.
Like, they've been singing
in Okinawan dialect.
15:07
Yeah.
Yeah.
But,
you know,
this TV program
was going viral
because
it's the content
from mainland Japanese,
maybe,
and like,
banning Okinawan dialect
doesn't resonate
directly.
Like, me, myself,
our generation
don't feel like
judging, or
don't feel like
in a bad way
to be said that.
Like, don't speak Okinawan dialect.
But, maybe
your generation
is really, you know,
when people pick up
like, history,
culture-ish,
you know,
content like this,
they need to search
all the history background
before they do it.
I know, like,
people posting on a
X and a Twitter,
it's like,
you know,
like,
on an X and a Twitter,
it's just one sentence.
What do you want to say?
Like, what your status,
what position you take?
You don't want to get the responsibility
to say it, right?
So, don't say it.
Yes.
Taking seriously
is
wrong.
18:03
Yes.
I would put in
the situation
automatically.
Yeah, from now on.
Yeah, from now on.
Then, we found
some article taking
a position maybe against
this content,
like,
I don't know.
Yeah, I feel
the same way, too.
Like, a
report caster
trying to say in, you know,
Okinawan dialect, and then
Nikaido Fumi-san trying not to
say back in Okinawan dialect.
So that's,
that's, you know,
that shows
what Okinawan
language is, and then
it was fun
as watching as Okinawan.
Like,
I wasn't even
excited that Okinawan
topic is on TV.
Yeah.
You don't want to see it, right?
Like, how it's
being said.
Wait,
if we don't have this information,
21:00
this information about the fire,
honestly, no one would have thought
anything,
like us.
The younger generation.
But like this,
if you think about it,
you might think it's true.
Yeah.
What was the problem?
Well, it's his opinion,
but I'm summarizing it.
To put it simply,
if you look at the
press conference,
you can argue that
it's funny to introduce
Ryukyu's words,
but it's also true that
from the past to the present,
people in Okinawa
don't really care about it.
In the first place,
if the standard language is
correct and the dialect
is correct,
the linguistic ideology
itself is not correct.
In the past,
Japanese people
took Ryukyu's culture
and language violently,
but the attitude to consume
it as a content is
too much like a bug.
No matter how much
you try to decorate
in front of the building
to introduce Ryukyu's culture
and language,
if you look at the
current situation of
colonialism,
you can say that
it is a project
with the possibility
that the questioner
who leads to the
words of Mikaido and Ryukyu
is also involved in
this situation.
I don't think
Ryukyu's culture is
respected in Japan.
I don't think
Ryukyu's culture is
respected in Japan.
I don't think
Ryukyu's culture is
respected in Japan.
I don't think
Ryukyu's culture is
respected in Japan.
I don't think
Ryukyu's culture is
respected in Japan.
I don't think
Ryukyu's culture is
respected in Japan.
I don't think
Ryukyu's culture is
respected in Japan.
I don't think
Ryukyu's culture is
respected in Japan.
I don't think
Ryukyu's culture is
respected in Japan.
I don't think
Ryukyu's culture is
respected in Japan.
I don't think
Ryukyu's culture is
respected in Japan.
I don't think
Ryukyu's culture is
respected in Japan.
I don't think
24:00
Ryukyu's culture is
respected in Japan.
I don't think
Ryukyu's culture is
respected in Japan.
I don't think
Ryukyu's culture is
respected in Japan.
I don't think
Ryukyu's culture is
respected in Japan.
I don't think
Ryukyu's culture is
respected in Japan.
I don't think
Ryukyu's culture is
respected in Japan.
I don't think
Ryukyu's culture is
respected in Japan.
I don't think
Ryukyu's culture is
respected in Japan.
I don't think
Ryukyu's culture is
respected in Japan.
I don't think
Ryukyu's culture is
respected in
Japan.
I don't think
Ryukyu's culture is
respected in
Japan.
I don't think
Ryukyu's culture is
respected in Japan.
I don't think
they might not consider it significant enough to refuse participation.
This isn't to say the lack of respect for Ryukyuan culture or making foolish decisions.
The problem lies in the fact that even their ability to make such value judgments have been taken away by Japan.
Thus, colonialism is not just about forcing compliance through visible oppression and physical violence,
but also about co-opting the colonized into complicity by internalizing colonizers' rationale, thereby solidifying colonial domination.
This is why policies like changing names and erasing indigenous languages were pursued,
and such psychological violence is the power relation that controls the colonized while extracting their consent.
Ichio-san, this topic is so difficult to make our thought organized into the one result.
It's a problem that only those who have seen history and many past movements can realize.
27:04
It's not about thinking too much or being right or wrong.
This opinion sounds quite neutral.
This perspective is not only as an Okinawan local or not just mainland people.
It's like all about this situation.
Colonialism situation.
Things, right?
So, it's not like our problem or their problem.
It's all like Japanese nowadays people's thinking problem.
Probably not only in Japanese.
People in the worldwide has possibly happened to be in this ignorance about the problem of colonialism.
For example, the war happened again, and then colonialism happened again,
and then Japan become something besides America.
These things repeating again.
This topic is Japanese against Okinawan.
Seems like.
But in a big picture, Japanese are kind of colonialized by Americans already.
After World War II.
I don't know if it's right to say colonialism.
Japan didn't lost the language, first of all.
But what they lost is proud of as a Japanese.
Everybody think western people are superior than us in the bottom of the brain.
It's like brainwashing.
White people are the best.
Model, advertisement, always use western people.
There is some kind of Japanese TV program that having a lot of foreigners,
and they are saying like what kind of point they find out the bizarre in the Japanese people.
Then Japanese people feel like, oh, we are like that, you know.
On the contrary, if it's a civil war, they do that in Japan.
Like, a long time ago, it's weird here, Japanese people.
30:03
Even now, there is a program like that.
They call a lot of foreigners, and they say Japanese people are like this,
and they realize that they are Japanese.
It's different from what we are talking about now,
but I want to know what it's like to be seen from the outside.
I think I like that kind of program.
Because it's an island country.
Japanese.
With the extension of that, Okinawa is also like,
boom, it's interesting.
If you look at it from a ignorant point of view, it's actually interesting.
That itself means that all Japanese people are stupid.
The population is strange, but westernized already.
It's fixed.
That's right.
So, about this problem,
people in Okinawa and the mainland are saying a lot of things,
but if you look at it from a bigger perspective,
I think the US is also managing it.
That's right.
In other words, not only do we have to make people follow
the common knowledge of the people,
but we also have to make the values of the people
and the values of the people
to be decided by the people.
That's why the Constitution of Japan
and the Constitution of the United States
have been established,
and psychological violence is a power relationship
that controls non-citizens while drawing consent.
I mean, those kind of problems are going to happen from now on,
I don't know how many years,
as long as Okinawa's economic level was the lowest in Japan.
I talked about this in the theme park,
but as long as Okinawa is poor,
it's a problem that will continue to happen for the rest of its life.
That's right.
We are always a minority.
But everyone likes to compare, right?
Various TV programs.
I'm sorry, there are quite a few people who don't watch TV right now.
I don't know if it's a good idea to think of TV as the opinion of the general public.
He told me like...
As an interviewer?
Interviewer.
Interviewee.
33:00
He took an interview.
Yeah.
It's already set.
The location and what time and what he needs to say.
What he needs to say.
Yeah.
Like a script?
There's something like a script.
First of all, the scene where they bump into each other,
I took about 20 takes.
Like, can I interview you?
I took it many times.
After that, what do you usually do?
It was all broadcasted.
So like, a lot of his friends always, you know, bring Habushu to him, to shot with him.
So like, he said tequila, but it was replaced to Habushot.
So they even, you know, tell people to say different things.
They have like a certain script.
Yeah.
Not a script, but more like...
Local...
Like a local...
Local...
Local things.
They want a reaction from the audience.
So...
They make him say more impressive things.
Yeah.
That's how it works.
After that happened, when I always watch TV,
it's already set up.
That's how my mind works.
Like...
I take interviews naturally.
It's set up.
You know, any kind of interview,
or broadcasting, or making a book, or article,
we all, you know, basically we should have a script, or the flow.
You know, tell the interviewees that,
okay, we can ask this question.
Are you comfortable with that?
Yeah.
Like, we can ask this question, this flow,
and at the result, I want you to have the answer kind of this vibes.
And that's okay.
Because that's what we do too.
Because we don't want to finish it up in the middle of anywhere, you know?
It's good to have a flow, but
for example, that specific name.
Yeah.
Like, for example, his drinks.
It's not a fact anymore to change everything.
That's right.
It's just a business.
If you do this, the response is good, so let's say this.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It can't be helped.
I don't think it's a shocker that it's in that industry.
36:04
I think a lot of young people don't know it,
or even our parents' generation.
In the same TV show,
they introduced about so many people doing karate in Okinawa.
Why?
Isn't it obvious? It's from Okinawa.
It was like that, but they did an interview at the street.
And the young people, the students, don't know about the history kind of thing.
They just think, oh, yeah, we do karate at school.
Like, it's for everyone.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
What do you mean? Saying the same thing?
Saying the same thing all the time, yeah.
Same news?
I think they want to have a number.
A viewing number.
Maybe different people viewing in a different timeline.
Repeating all the time.
They want to distract people's attention to the stupid news.
Like the comedian's sexual assault, blah, blah, blah.
Then they don't need to broadcast other serious stuff.
Like government stuff.
They change the law.
I've heard that when the celebrity news happens,
people want to watch those things.
And at the same time, the law is changed.
Secretly.
Broadcasting as a small topic.
39:06
TV is a TV.
All the media is bullshit.
It's all bullshit.
Yeah.
It's not Yoshimoto versus Bunshun.
It's his individual versus Bunshun.
They don't want to investigate that much.
To be honest, they want to know what kind of stupid stuff Matsu-chan did.
Like the feminism.
Like the sexual assault.
Yeah.
So it's all bullshit.
So when the celebrity news happens,
people watch the government news.
People love gossip too.
It's fun to watch the news.
Like, I want to report this kind of stuff.
I don't want to report this because it happened.
I want to report this kind of stuff for a long time.
Like, I don't need this anymore.
Yeah.
Like, the celebrities' seniors and juniors comment on the news.
It's like the TV is completed in the celebrities.
I don't know if it's fun to watch the news.
Yeah.
On the other hand, there is a problem with the viewers' sensitivity.
It's not my business.
It's not my business.
But maybe it's a good way not to think about your own business.
You can criticize it in your heart.
Like, this piece of shit.
Celebrities are the target of gossip.
So scandals can be fun for the general public.
You can criticize it in your heart.
Yeah.
It's hard for celebrities.
Not celebrities, but now...
42:10
Instantly.
But it's definitely a benefit for the people who have no voice.
TV is fake.
TV is fake.
But that fakeness can be a fun thing.
Don't take it seriously.
If you ask me what is real, it becomes a debate.
Yeah.
Well, that's one thing.
What is real?
I'm saying what I think.
But, for example...
I invited some TV show.
Then they have a script, right?
That's okay.
And they have a specific script.
I want you to say like this.
Or I want you to say this.
Then, are we gonna be fake?
I don't wanna be fake.
But what do you do?
It's a really good show.
I can be on the show.
But after I go back to the radio, I say something honest.
Wait.
You can be sued for breach of contract.
You can be sued for saying like this.
No one will sponsor you.
But, like YouTube...
It's not sponsored by something.
You can make a show.
You can do a podcast.
And you can get some money.
Yeah.
Yeah.
They are doing business.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Reborn.
Yeah.
45:07
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think so.
So, in the process of reconstruction,
people, especially people in Okinawa,
what direction their consciousness will go.
If they make a little mistake,
they will learn this dialect or dialect again.
If Japanese hate is born,
I think it's meaningless.
Only when it's convenient, we can separate.
Only when it's inconvenient,
we can live in Japan.
Because we live in Japan,
we have a political and medical system.
Japan is a very safe country.
Yeah.
It's not just a problem in Okinawa.
I think it's also influenced by Japan.
So,
if we don't have any cultural or political restrictions,
we have to spread the traditional arts that existed in the past.
And also,
we have to learn what Japan is like.
Even if we only think about Okinawa,
we have to learn what kind of people
the Americanized Japanese people used to be.
We have to learn independently.
Yeah.
But a big media like TV,
they need to be careful
to broadcast the historical topic.
It can be a problem sometimes like this.
Maybe it became a problem because it's a variety show.
If it's a news or a documentary,
the quality is going to be beyond.
There are a lot of professionals
who check and check and check
and finally put it out.
There are a lot of people who make that kind of show.
If you think too much about it,
you can't help but think about it.
There may be a hidden bias.
Everyone has a bias.
Everyone has a bias.
I think the media is biased.
I don't know if a perfectly neutral media
can make it interesting.
It's difficult.
It's not interesting.
If you just spread the facts,
it's just a news.
48:01
After all, after someone's thoughts are put on it,
people will say,
Oh, that's right.
Then I know which side I'm on.
It's okay to have a little bias.
Now
Let's go in a peaceful way.
By knowing what it is,
the key.
Regardless of what kind of media you see.
But in this era,
the news on your iPhone
is already algorithm.
And then they put what you like.
Yeah.
The same goes for politics.
There's Instagram with Trump supporters.
There are people who only recommend the opposite article.
It's only one side of the world.
So don't think everyone thinks this way.
It's all about media literacy.
Literacy.
We talked about it, right?
Yeah.
Before.
Learning the history of Okinawa dialect.
Media literacy.
To add.
You have to add media literacy.
I learned a lot when I looked it up.
It was even searched on Google.
Well, there are advantages to finding what you like.
Yeah.
Like shopping.
That's right.
Be careful about politics and the press.
Yeah.
I want to tell the older generation.
Yeah.
They like to watch TV.
YouTube too.
But YouTube has only been recommended.
True.
They don't have an opinion.
So even if you want to know the opposite opinion, you have to dig in yourself.
That's hard too.
But you don't know what's true.
Yeah.
Believe what you want to believe.
Yeah.
And respect others.
Yeah.
Don't hurt any people.
True.
But I don't want the dark news to spread.
I know.
Like a murder case.
I know.
There are others too.
Like a murder case.
They show how they kill people.
Yeah.
Sometimes I wonder if that's okay.
What if there's someone imitating you?
It's the same as suicide news.
Yeah.
Don't tell them how to do it.
Yeah.
I watch the news of criminals too.
Yeah.
Isn't it scary?
51:00
But I don't know.
Yeah.
But I think it's a duty of the press.
Yeah.
It's hard.
So if you're feeling not good,
you know, take a distance from all the media.
Yeah.
Especially social media or the mass media.
Like detox period.
That's important.
I really want to see the dark news.
Yeah.
The world looks dark,
and the people walking in the world
are like,
huh?
This guy too?
This guy too?
He's crazy.
That's what I think.
Yeah.
For example, if I see someone with a bad personality,
I'm like,
huh?
He's going to kill me.
That's an extreme example.
Yeah.
But if I'm just reporting in a bright direction,
maybe,
those people are nice.
They have tattoos, but they are good.
Yeah.
I think it's not just prejudice,
but it can also be a happy ending.
So I want to see news that is well-balanced.
I mean, I want to see my own way of receiving information.
Yeah.
If you look at the news about the war,
you might think that the world is going bad.
But if the world is moving in the right direction,
I want to put in information that is not.
I want to keep it as central as possible.
People are influenced by what they see.
Yeah.
If your acquaintance gets involved in a crime,
it's the same as being dangerous for yourself.
But nothing has actually changed.
But you get caught up in it.
Yeah.
So mix it well by yourself.
Yeah.
I want to keep it as central as possible.
Is that okay?
Yes.
That's all for today.
That's a weird ending.
Bye-bye.
Bye.
